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Modeling Objects in Carrara - Q&A - Come One and All

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited March 2017

    John's Crazy Objects:  A Speaker Box WIP

    I was off looking for a full speaker cabinet and ran across a .car file on ShareCG... only thing is that it was only one speaker and no cabinet for it.  The speaker itself is modeled very well and has a morph with it... name is "Speaker_basic.car".

    So off I go to design the cabinet... as you can see I wanted four speakers.  I inserted a cube, rectangular, with 3 segments and un-creased it... then I got to work loading in the speaker and duplicating it... resizing and positioning where I wanted them.  Then I Dissolved the lines I'd used for aligning each. Having a line for each side of the speakers width, horizontal and vertical, next I made a circular section for the opening for each... see my example/nstructions in answer to Vyusur's question above it.  After the Tessellation you can see that a lot of unecessary geometry exists... I could get rid of some but it renders rather quickly at Good quality.

    A few more things I did along the way... Extruded the front then a bit less at the back... used Fillet for all outer corners.... used Extract Along for inner corners...  also for areas around speaker openings.  What a goof I am... I only Extruded the round poly inwards and it has no thickness.. oh well it gives the morphs enough room to move. I'll need to take a peak at the back and make sure that it looks good also... don't know that I made the inner corners nice looking.

    Pay no attention to any shaders for the cabinet... they are temporary.

    In the meantime I re-designed my musical hatlike symbol too.

    Modeling is Funnnn!

    SpkrBoxOnly_vm.png
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    SpkrBox_wSpeakers.png
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    Music_Speaker_05a_WIP.png
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    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 2,235

    John, very clear and attractive model!

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Gee Thanks! blush  Glad your desire of a proper Quad cirlcle gave me the need to figure a way to make one.

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,051

    great speaker box John... had to fire up Tub Thumping after looking at it! yes

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Thanks!  Still weaving my way though the vertex modeler tools... I can only hope to someday model a car as good as yours.

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,051

    You will be there in a lot quicker time than I was John, and do it a whole lot better yes

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 2,235
    wgdjohn said:

    Gee Thanks! blush  Glad your desire of a proper Quad cirlcle gave me the need to figure a way to make one.

     

    Sure! It's the first thing I noticed.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Stezza - that's looking great! Thanks for sharing the family pic too.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    Stezza said:

    any time @Diomede, we have a guest room out the back which is only a very very short walk to the creek for you to throw a fishing line into.. 

    thanks for the comments, the lighting has covered up a few discepencies and I'm having trouble with the front mud guards... but it's been fun.. Spent a few hours on the back door then Carrara crashed.... oops... forgot to save that bit, start again!

    here's my eldest daughter out the back yard which shows how close we are to the creek.. notice the kookaburra in the tree cool

    So Cool!!!

  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188

    I made a simple shape using boolean.  It was the fastest way to create the shape I wanted and at the same time was not distorted in Carrara.  While it is NOT distorted in Carrara,it is when exported as .obj and imported into DS. What causes distortions like in the left image?  Is it polygons where 1 vertex shares 2 edges intersecting a non planar edge like the right image?

    Mesh Distortions 1jpg.jpg
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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,202
    krickerd said:

    I made a simple shape using boolean.  It was the fastest way to create the shape I wanted and at the same time was not distorted in Carrara.  While it is NOT distorted in Carrara,it is when exported as .obj and imported into DS. What causes distortions like in the left image?  Is it polygons where 1 vertex shares 2 edges intersecting a non planar edge like the right image?

    try triagulating ngons in Carrara before export

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited March 2017

    krikerd,  If that doesn't work you might try reinforcing the corners edges... See MDO2010's earlier suggestion in answer to my question above it to his earlier remark about reinforcing. He has 2 ways to do this.  I've adopted both ways... they should clean up those corner edges.

    My Speaker Box above uses fillet for some and Extract Around or Extract Along for others... nothing I modeled has Creasing and all Polys are Quads. 

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188
    wgdjohn said:

    krikerd,  If that doesn't work you might try reinforcing the corners edges... See MDO2010's earlier suggestion in answer to my question above it to his earlier remark about reinforcing. He has 2 ways to do this.  I've adopted both ways... they should clean up those corner edges.

    My Speaker Box above uses fillet for some and Extract Around or Extract Along for others... nothing I modeled has Creasing and all Polys are Quads. 

    Okay I'm getting much more success by:

    A. Reducing the number of points on the original cube to lowest setting

    B. Merging Coplanar faces after the boolean operation

    C. Extracting aroung all edges before and after the extrusions

    Thanks for the tip about extract around.  I can see real value in shoring up edges but the model must be super simple and clean to do it.  Currently my hammer head is only 218 polygons and 440 edges.  I think I will redo real quick to make it exactly like my reference now that I'm on the right track.

  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188

    Making progress.  Got rid of mesh distortions.  Added shader domains.  Now just have to figure out why my ancient script texture isn't showing up.  Aspect ratio should be correct, at least for the horizontal windows.  I haven't UV mapped it, that's probably why.  Understanding UV mapping has escaped me so far.  Maybe try tomorrow.

    Head Test.jpg
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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Yes it will be the UV mapping.  In general using boolean operations is a nightmare for both UV mapping and the integrity of the mesh. Ideally you want an all-quad mesh and avoid having too many points which are connected to too many other points.  This is most evident if you are using smoothing (subdivision surfaces) as non-quads will cause artifacts. I tend to avoid booleans if they can be avoided.

  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188
    PhilW said:

    Yes it will be the UV mapping.  In general using boolean operations is a nightmare for both UV mapping and the integrity of the mesh. Ideally you want an all-quad mesh and avoid having too many points which are connected to too many other points.  This is most evident if you are using smoothing (subdivision surfaces) as non-quads will cause artifacts. I tend to avoid booleans if they can be avoided.

    Booleans were very effective in this case as I merged all coplanar faces after the operation, making a super simple mesh, then shored up the polygons by extracting around all long edges, then around the end polygons.  It is very clean and should be easy to UV map I would think.  However I don't know how to do the cuts and unfolding operation.  I watched a video on it but it didn't make much sense to me, though I haven't tried it with this mesh yet.  Maybe it will work better.

    Hammer Head Specs.jpg
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551

    You know how we select a single edge of the mesh?

    Well if we select some edges and then go the the UV Unwrap tab and set the upper box to Seams and click on + we've just made an unwrapping seam. Doing the same but clicking on - will remove the selected edges from being seams.

    Select a polygon and switch the upper box to Pins and click + to create a pin for unwrapping.

    The next tab to the left, Operations, we can use projections instead of unwrapping if that's easier for our project. 

  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188
    Dartanbeck said:

    You know how we select a single edge of the mesh?

    Well if we select some edges and then go the the UV Unwrap tab and set the upper box to Seams and click on + we've just made an unwrapping seam. Doing the same but clicking on - will remove the selected edges from being seams.

    Select a polygon and switch the upper box to Pins and click + to create a pin for unwrapping.

    The next tab to the left, Operations, we can use projections instead of unwrapping if that's easier for our project. 

    I think I would have to see it in action to understand the workflow because I still have no visual clue.  All I know is that no matter what seems I attempt to create in unwrap, the lines end up in a tiny smashed pile at the bottom of the grid.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168
    edited March 2017

    You may not be doing anything wrong.  When first activated, unfold does put all of the "islands" in small scale along the bottom of the grid.  You have to manually select, scale, rotate, and arrange them on the grid.  In this context, the term island is being used to describe the various cutouts created by the seams.  A series of posts here may help describe the uvmapping workflow for shape presets (box, sphere, etc) and for seams/unfold.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1798806/#Comment_1798806

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,202

    also the fit under the other tab will expand them to fit the uv space

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    Here's a suggestion for a "cutting plan" to create your seams.

    In essence what we're going to do is take off the two end caps, flatten them, and unroll the centre section.

    1. Select an edge of the loop that delineates one end cap. Loop it around. Repeat for the other side. Click + in the unfold tab. This will turn the selected edges from red to cyan. This means they are now seams.
    2. Select one of the longitudinal edges on the centre section -- It doesn't really matter which -- and click + The centre section is now effectively a tube with a slice through it, so it should unwrap nicely.

    3. To flatten the end caps, you're going to need to create a seam along each of the eight corners, including the bevelled bits. I don't think this'll be as hard as it seems. If you select one of the edges and Loop it, you *should* get a selection that goes from one end cap to the other. All we need to to is unselect the edge that passes though the main body, and we've got a seam for both endcaps. Repeat for the other 7 corners. NOTE: Don't unselect the seam we made in step 2!

    4. Now we can unwrap. You should get three islands positioned along the bottom of the UV grid. You'll need to position and rescale them (the UV unwrapper is very dumb whyen it comes to this)

    5. An alternative option: If you remove a seam between the endcap and body (I'd suggest a long edge - I've shown one in red on the picture), that'll unwrap the hammer head as a single piece. However, because of all the bevelling, it may come out distorted (something else Carrara's unwrap is not particularly good at!). Worth trying both though, and see which one you like best.

    BTW, the two big end polys are n-gons, You should really add some horizontal or vertical edges to make them into quads (select a vertex top and bottom, then shift-ctrl-L to link them. Repeat as needed). You can do it after UV mapping (the extra edges might affect some of the loop actions)

    cutting plan.jpg
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  • krickerdkrickerd Posts: 188
    TangoAlpha said:

    Here's a suggestion for a "cutting plan" to create your seams.

    In essence what we're going to do is take off the two end caps, flatten them, and unroll the centre section.

    1. Select an edge of the loop that delineates one end cap. Loop it around. Repeat for the other side. Click + in the unfold tab. This will turn the selected edges from red to cyan. This means they are now seams.
    2. Select one of the longitudinal edges on the centre section -- It doesn't really matter which -- and click + The centre section is now effectively a tube with a slice through it, so it should unwrap nicely.

     

    3. To flatten the end caps, you're going to need to create a seam along each of the eight corners, including the bevelled bits. I don't think this'll be as hard as it seems. If you select one of the edges and Loop it, you *should* get a selection that goes from one end cap to the other. All we need to to is unselect the edge that passes though the main body, and we've got a seam for both endcaps. Repeat for the other 7 corners. NOTE: Don't unselect the seam we made in step 2!

    4. Now we can unwrap. You should get three islands positioned along the bottom of the UV grid. You'll need to position and rescale them (the UV unwrapper is very dumb whyen it comes to this)

    5. An alternative option: If you remove a seam between the endcap and body (I'd suggest a long edge - I've shown one in red on the picture), that'll unwrap the hammer head as a single piece. However, because of all the bevelling, it may come out distorted (something else Carrara's unwrap is not particularly good at!). Worth trying both though, and see which one you like best.

    BTW, the two big end polys are n-gons, You should really add some horizontal or vertical edges to make them into quads (select a vertex top and bottom, then shift-ctrl-L to link them. Repeat as needed). You can do it after UV mapping (the extra edges might affect some of the loop actions)

    Thanks for the guide.  I will try this as soon as I can.

     

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    I see this kind of differently,.. 

    the model is essentially a box shape,. albeit rectangular with some missing panels,.   try a conventional preset UV mapping layout, (Box mapping) and try changing the different preset "Layout" options for that mapping type,.... before you jump into custom unwrapping,.

     

    In the vertex modeller,. UV mapping mode ,. right hand panels "Operations" tab ,. you'll see Box mapping as a projection type,. then you can and select and apply one of the layout presets,. see pic

     

    You can also manually select and move/scale/rotate, the different flattened sections.

    Unwrap depends on seams to split the mesh,. and it will layout the parts along the bottom of the UV grid.

    at that point you can double click, to select a section,. then Move/Scale/Rotate, as desired, to create your custom layout.

    Pic:

    Modelled from a rectangle, using dynamic extrusion,. to extrude both angled ends from the main rectangle,. the missing sections were extruded to create the inner corner edges, then deleted to leave a hole.

    The handle/shaft section was modelled from a single polygon, duplicated from the main hammer/head, using dynamic extrusion to create a long rectangle,. then smoothing was added at two levels to create a rounded handle. .

    When you're making a model,. it can be made of several "polymeshes" which are placed together,.

    Each mesh can have different shading domains, or share a shading domain with other meshes.

    Each shading domain can have different UV mapping options.

     

    model uv.jpg
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    model .jpg
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    krickerd said:
    Dartanbeck said:

    You know how we select a single edge of the mesh?

    Well if we select some edges and then go the the UV Unwrap tab and set the upper box to Seams and click on + we've just made an unwrapping seam. Doing the same but clicking on - will remove the selected edges from being seams.

    Select a polygon and switch the upper box to Pins and click + to create a pin for unwrapping.

    The next tab to the left, Operations, we can use projections instead of unwrapping if that's easier for our project. 

    I think I would have to see it in action to understand the workflow because I still have no visual clue.  All I know is that no matter what seems I attempt to create in unwrap, the lines end up in a tiny smashed pile at the bottom of the grid.

    Here you go yes

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551

    I almost always use a similar technique set as 3DAGE has described above unless the particular model is just too complex and better suited to unwrapping. I also like to set up very specific Shader domains, as he explains. 

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Excellent disicriptions/examples!... TangoAlpha & 3DAGE.  Hope I can use it with my windowed PanelBox...  I might try it first on one withouth added thickness... who knows perhaps even I can learn to UnWrap.  As you can see from the pic below the inside is an exact duplicate of the outside with a .50 in. joining the inside and outside.   I suspect that with the window openings I should define those at the same time as the end cap. Hmm for the window ledges probably select 1 edge??  and do those seperately for each??

    Dart,  Thanks for putting the video link in the thread.  I watched it long ago and it's quite easy for follow... Well... 3rd or 4th try finally worked. :)

    PnlBox_toUnWrap.png
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  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
    edited March 2017
    wgdjohn said:

    Excellent disicriptions/examples!... TangoAlpha & 3DAGE.  Hope I can use it with my windowed PanelBox...  I might try it first on one withouth added thickness... who knows perhaps even I can learn to UnWrap.  As you can see from the pic below the inside is an exact duplicate of the outside with a .50 in. joining the inside and outside.   I suspect that with the window openings I should define those at the same time as the end cap. Hmm for the window ledges probably select 1 edge??  and do those seperately for each??

    Dart,  Thanks for putting the video link in the thread.  I watched it long ago and it's quite easy for follow... Well... 3rd or 4th try finally worked. :)

    Absent any other thoughts, my first pass would probably be to treat each top/bottom/side section separately. You'd end up with 12 islands, but they'd be simple unwraps (although the four pieces with "ends" would be a little more complex)

    Post edited by TangoAlpha on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    TangoAlpha said:
    wgdjohn said:

    Excellent disicriptions/examples!... TangoAlpha & 3DAGE.  Hope I can use it with my windowed PanelBox...  I might try it first on one withouth added thickness... who knows perhaps even I can learn to UnWrap.  As you can see from the pic below the inside is an exact duplicate of the outside with a .50 in. joining the inside and outside.   I suspect that with the window openings I should define those at the same time as the end cap. Hmm for the window ledges probably select 1 edge??  and do those seperately for each??

    Dart,  Thanks for putting the video link in the thread.  I watched it long ago and it's quite easy for follow... Well... 3rd or 4th try finally worked. :)

    Absent any other thoughts, my first pass would probably be to treat each top/bottom/side section separately. You'd end up with 12 islands, but they'd be simple unwraps (although the four pieces with "ends" would be a little more complex)

    Me too... to be perfectly honest. I certainly know others who would immediately opt for an unwrap. Not me. I almost always go for a method that helps me paint my textures as easily as possible. So I most often to each domain separately (making several, often many domains) and using planar map operation as a start, then 'pull out' any hidden or squished edges to make for a nice, unifrom map. Works for me, but each artist often finds their own comfort zone.

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited March 2017

    I've been quiet lately as I've been busy working on my latest project - here's a work in progress....

     

     

     

    Switch1.jpg
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    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • de3ande3an Posts: 915
    TabascoJack said:

    I've been quiet lately as I've been busy working on my latest project - here's a work in progress....

    This is looking really nice!

    Looks like you're modeling things to actual scale too. Nice profile on the rails. Looks functional. Getting the actual dimensions for this kind of thing can be time consuming.

    Will be interested to see how this progresses.

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