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Getting on the 9 train, or not

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,179

    xyer0 said:

    Josie no longer labeled as "Teen," but still has V4 skin. MW Elisabeth, however, has crossed the valley to at least the foothills where V9 landed. I wonder if the extra polygons allow good sculptors to break the surly bonds of Genesis sameness, but average sculptors are left earthbound.

    people grow up

    a few years we will have senior citizen Josie 

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 5,908

    AllenArt said:

    xyer0 said:

    Josie no longer labeled as "Teen," but still has V4 skin. MW Elisabeth, however, has crossed the valley to at least the foothills where V9 landed. I wonder if the extra polygons allow good sculptors to break the surly bonds of Genesis sameness, but average sculptors are left earthbound.

    Don't usually get a lot of females, but Elisabeth is a strong contender ;). The Thorne character has had the same face since at least 2000. I can't bear another ;). 

    On closer inspection, Elisabeth's skin is just as flat looking close up as Josie's is. Yes, I'm glad that Thorne keeps making characters, but I've never used the ones I have.

    I guess since she's not a Teen anymore, she'll be fair game for the pron peddlers. 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,168

    xyer0 said:

    AllenArt said:

    xyer0 said:

    Josie no longer labeled as "Teen," but still has V4 skin. MW Elisabeth, however, has crossed the valley to at least the foothills where V9 landed. I wonder if the extra polygons allow good sculptors to break the surly bonds of Genesis sameness, but average sculptors are left earthbound.

    Don't usually get a lot of females, but Elisabeth is a strong contender ;). The Thorne character has had the same face since at least 2000. I can't bear another ;). 

    On closer inspection, Elisabeth's skin is just as flat looking close up as Josie's is. Yes, I'm glad that Thorne keeps making characters, but I've never used the ones I have.

    I guess since she's not a Teen anymore, she'll be fair game for the pron peddlers. 

    Yes, I noticed that below the neck, Elisabeth is a little "smooth". I think I can work around it ;). 

  • ramon73ramon73 Posts: 94

    I would buy G9 if it was more compatible with my G8/G8.1 assets. I have spend a ton of money the last few years to build up an assets inventory which becomes more or less useless if I switch over to G9. And with my 8GB VRAM graphics card rendering G8/G8.1 is already very heavy, If I use G9 I will probably be even more limited in what I can render.

  • tunggul1101tunggul1101 Posts: 21

    I'm still playing with my G2 but I'm willing to make a big leap to G9 if there's a morph converter tool on the market.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,749

    xyer0 said:

    AllenArt said:

    So far the only character I've seen that I thought was up to par with their G8/8.1 content is bluejaunte's character. The others are, IMVHO, awful so far - other than the DO's Mike and Vicky. I bought the Bachelor and Bachelorette Mega Bundle, but not for the characters, which I think are terrible and I'll never use them. I apologize to the PA's, but I can't help how I feel about them. In my opinion (and it's just that, so take with a grain of salt...lol), I made better faces with a few small custom morphs and the G9 morph packages.

    I agree, and I would add that Stella HD (bluejaunte's G9 character)---though up to par with his G8/8.1 content---offered no noticeable G9 advance in quality or features. I'm not even downloading the B&BMB characters. Here's hoping Daz keeps its Core Figure quality as high as V9 on G9 rather than the regular lapses in quality of G8/8.1 Core Figures.

    I was thinking the exact same thing based on what I have seen so far. Seems some PAs either don't want to put in the work and just want to release content or actually don't have the skills to take their game to the next level. While I am not that big of a fan of vicky 9's look, I can see the quality and I am hoping for new characters that fit my aesthetics and offer the same quality as V9

  • vagansvagans Posts: 422

    Anyone have a clue why G9 nipples are now HD feature instead of geometry? Was there some useful reasoning behind that decision? Clothing can no longer interact with the geometry.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 1,623

    ramon73 said:

    I would buy G9 if it was more compatible with my G8/G8.1 assets. I have spend a ton of money the last few years to build up an assets inventory which becomes more or less useless if I switch over to G9. And with my 8GB VRAM graphics card rendering G8/G8.1 is already very heavy, If I use G9 I will probably be even more limited in what I can render.

    It is very compatible with most things like clothes, etc.
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,296

    vagans said:

    Anyone have a clue why G9 nipples are now HD feature instead of geometry? Was there some useful reasoning behind that decision? Clothing can no longer interact with the geometry.

    From what I've read, it's a deliberate decision to make the mesh more generically flexible and more compatible with clothing. AFAIK, clothing *should* be able to interact with the HD geometry unless it's a geograft. Previously, the whole advantage of Daz-produced HD detail (using special plugins only available to PAs) as opposed to HD detail produced elsewhere (using only normal maps and/or displacement) was to allow interaction of detailed surfaces with clothing. Geografts were never directly supported. So, clothing does not normally conform to items such as geografted genitalia. In that case, you need to add a geoshell over the geografted character and apply the clothing mesh to the geoshell. I find geoshells are also handy for separating layers of clothing and preventing poke-through between layers in complex outfits, but there are limits. And of course, all of this adds complexity to preparing your characters for rendering.

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 5,908

    Torquinox said:

    vagans said:

    Anyone have a clue why G9 nipples are now HD feature instead of geometry? Was there some useful reasoning behind that decision? Clothing can no longer interact with the geometry.

    From what I've read, it's a deliberate decision to make the mesh more generically flexible and more compatible with clothing. AFAIK, clothing *should* be able to interact with the HD geometry unless it's a geograft. Previously, the whole advantage of Daz-produced HD detail (using special plugins only available to PAs) as opposed to HD detail produced elsewhere (using only normal maps and/or displacement) was to allow interaction of detailed surfaces with clothing. Geografts were never directly supported. So, clothing does not normally conform to items such as geografted genitalia. In that case, you need to add a geoshell over the geografted character and apply the clothing mesh to the geoshell. I find geoshells are also handy for separating layers of clothing and preventing poke-through between layers in complex outfits, but there are limits. And of course, all of this adds complexity to preparing your characters for rendering.

    I would also guess that on an intersex figure, the different positions of male and female nipples would be problematic. That still doesn't explain the navel though. 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,211

    Navel geometry that's built in can also affect how conforming clothing works on a figure.  

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 5,908

    RAMWolff said:

    Navel geometry that's built in can also affect how conforming clothing works on a figure.  

    That sounds reasonable, but I've NEVER seen it happen on Genesis 3/8 when the navel is dialed to zero.

    Another thing: I've never paid too much attention to men's pectorals, but Genesis 9 Male has to have the most unnatural looking pectoral shape I've ever seen. They look like pectoral implants rather than flesh. 

  • CHWTCHWT Posts: 1,179
    edited December 2022
    xyer0 said:

    RAMWolff said:

    Navel geometry that's built in can also affect how conforming clothing works on a figure.  

    That sounds reasonable, but I've NEVER seen it happen on Genesis 3/8 when the navel is dialed to zero.

    Another thing: I've never paid too much attention to men's pectorals, but Genesis 9 Male has to have the most unnatural looking pectoral shape I've ever seen. They look like pectoral implants rather than flesh. 

    Three cheers for the man b00bs.
    Post edited by CHWT on
  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,752

    CHWT said:

    xyer0 said:

    RAMWolff said:

    Navel geometry that's built in can also affect how conforming clothing works on a figure.  

    That sounds reasonable, but I've NEVER seen it happen on Genesis 3/8 when the navel is dialed to zero.

    Another thing: I've never paid too much attention to men's pectorals, but Genesis 9 Male has to have the most unnatural looking pectoral shape I've ever seen. They look like pectoral implants rather than flesh. 

    Three cheers for the man b00bs.

    It's moobs

  • CHWTCHWT Posts: 1,179
    maikdecker said:

    CHWT said:

    xyer0 said:

    RAMWolff said:

    Navel geometry that's built in can also affect how conforming clothing works on a figure.  

    That sounds reasonable, but I've NEVER seen it happen on Genesis 3/8 when the navel is dialed to zero.

    Another thing: I've never paid too much attention to men's pectorals, but Genesis 9 Male has to have the most unnatural looking pectoral shape I've ever seen. They look like pectoral implants rather than flesh. 

    Three cheers for the man b00bs.

    It's moobs

    three cheers for the moobs
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,211

    If you think about things from a real world perspective though, folks have their navels and nipples in various places.  Since DAZ is all about realism this is a good way to go.  I have a friend on Fb that his navel is not in the semi normal place you would expect it to me, it's a bit further up his torso.  Have you ever tried to move the navel geometry up or down in ZBrush?  It can be done but the geometry is then stretched pretty badly in extreme cases. This new way allows the artist to place nipples and navels more to where they should be for their vision!  

  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,670
    edited December 2022

    I feel that moving verticies or lines (forgot the name) in Hexagon can be a challenge.  Moving one verticie or line will affect how the neighboring verticies and lines look.

    Post edited by starionwolf on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,025

    RAMWolff said:

    If you think about things from a real world perspective though, folks have their navels and nipples in various places.  Since DAZ is all about realism this is a good way to go.  I have a friend on Fb that his navel is not in the semi normal place you would expect it to me, it's a bit further up his torso.  Have you ever tried to move the navel geometry up or down in ZBrush?  It can be done but the geometry is then stretched pretty badly in extreme cases. This new way allows the artist to place nipples and navels more to where they should be for their vision!  

    Mine navel is about 2 inches off center to the right of normal location do to the fact I have Scoliosis and my spine curves at that location

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,211

    HUGS Frank!  Not for the navel location but the pain you must suffer with that horrible afliction! 

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,330
    'Unisex' G9 products: I seldom render female characters, so I'm hesitant to buy a product that shows only/majority female shapes in the promo shots. I know I could buy it and return it, but it's kind of a hassle for everyone involved. If it's all female used, I have to think that's the intention of the product and is likely not going to look good with or enhance male shapes.
  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,003

    Did you have any of the morphs in mind you particularly wanted to see with the masculine morph dialed in? My thoughts on this product are that, despite the promos all showing feminine dialed in, the changes shown should be equally helpful on adjusting a body with masculine features also dialed in (adjusting height/width/depth of areas doesn't really care about what other morphs are dialed in, which is what made this series of products very flexible in the past). To me, this means that I can get one shape shift product that covers the whole G9 range, instead of needing two sets one for male and one for female.

    All that said, I've got the product though I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but if you're curious about anything in particular I could do a few quick renders.

  • vagansvagans Posts: 422

    Torquinox said:

    vagans said:

    Anyone have a clue why G9 nipples are now HD feature instead of geometry? Was there some useful reasoning behind that decision? Clothing can no longer interact with the geometry.

    From what I've read, it's a deliberate decision to make the mesh more generically flexible and more compatible with clothing. AFAIK, clothing *should* be able to interact with the HD geometry unless it's a geograft. Previously, the whole advantage of Daz-produced HD detail (using special plugins only available to PAs) as opposed to HD detail produced elsewhere (using only normal maps and/or displacement) was to allow interaction of detailed surfaces with clothing. Geografts were never directly supported. So, clothing does not normally conform to items such as geografted genitalia. In that case, you need to add a geoshell over the geografted character and apply the clothing mesh to the geoshell. I find geoshells are also handy for separating layers of clothing and preventing poke-through between layers in complex outfits, but there are limits. And of course, all of this adds complexity to preparing your characters for rendering.

    You are right, this does seem to be working. I'm thinking perhaps I didn't apply Nipples Feminine HD but only Nipples Depth Feminine HD last time. Using G9 with both dialed up and the included bra does definitely conform properly.

    Does this mean that G9 characters that don't have HD can't have nipples applied? Or navels?

    I've never really had a problem with Geografts and clothing conforming though. 

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,027

    ...one would think with all the "bare belly" fashions for female characters, the navel would have been part of the mesh.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,902

    vagans said:

    Torquinox said:

    vagans said:

    Anyone have a clue why G9 nipples are now HD feature instead of geometry? Was there some useful reasoning behind that decision? Clothing can no longer interact with the geometry.

    From what I've read, it's a deliberate decision to make the mesh more generically flexible and more compatible with clothing. AFAIK, clothing *should* be able to interact with the HD geometry unless it's a geograft. Previously, the whole advantage of Daz-produced HD detail (using special plugins only available to PAs) as opposed to HD detail produced elsewhere (using only normal maps and/or displacement) was to allow interaction of detailed surfaces with clothing. Geografts were never directly supported. So, clothing does not normally conform to items such as geografted genitalia. In that case, you need to add a geoshell over the geografted character and apply the clothing mesh to the geoshell. I find geoshells are also handy for separating layers of clothing and preventing poke-through between layers in complex outfits, but there are limits. And of course, all of this adds complexity to preparing your characters for rendering.

    You are right, this does seem to be working. I'm thinking perhaps I didn't apply Nipples Feminine HD but only Nipples Depth Feminine HD last time. Using G9 with both dialed up and the included bra does definitely conform properly.

    Does this mean that G9 characters that don't have HD can't have nipples applied? Or navels?

    I've never really had a problem with Geografts and clothing conforming though. 

    The Genesis 9 Essentials comes with all the nipple and navel morphs.  So everyone has it.

  • alienareaalienarea Posts: 526

    I compared Michael 8.1-HD to Michael 9-HD in the picture below. Notable findings:

    - Both skins have painted hairs, which is bad, especially for Michael 9-HD as I cannot use a skin with painted stubble for Victoria 9. 

    - As identified before with Victoria 9, the arms are longer with the new generation

    - The chest and pectorals of Michael 9-HD look flat and unrealistic

    As I said before, Generation 9 is a step back for me and I have enough Genesis 3, 8 and 8.1 items to ignore it.

    Michael 81 vs Michael 9_jpg.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 2M
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633
    edited December 2022

    Nope. My train completely stayed in G8 land and can't say I do a lot with G9. Nothing has made me excited enough to use frequently. I spin up a G9 character with what I bought sofar every now and then, but that is about it?

    The most horrible thing to say, but I guess G9 is just...OK. Nothing really groundbreaking that makes me go "all in".

    Post edited by Paintbox on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,357

    When it comes to G9 purchases, I'm gonna be choosier than a mom who chooses Jiff!

    Money's tigher than it used to be, and the quality of some of these new characters is quite frankly embarassing. They seriously want $60 for a version of Josie that somehow looks worse than her previous itteration? No sale.

     

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,752

    vrba79 said:

    When it comes to G9 purchases, I'm gonna be choosier than a mom who chooses Jiff!

    I chose to go the easy road, so I don't have to be choosy at all... it's totally easy right now to go "G9 - nope, G9 - nope, G8 - lets have a look.. G9 - nope" when checking the new products each day devil

  • nwleee_a52bfead84nwleee_a52bfead84 Posts: 108

    I got on the 9 train, but I think I want to get off at the next stop.
    As others have mentioned, there are a few things that seem like a step back from G8/8.1
    But one of the biggest turn-offs for me is G9's breasts (female).   They seem to point unnatrually outward (like the reverse of cross-eyed),  I can't seem to improve the shapes to make them look more "normal", even though I have several morph packages for G9.
    Anyway, I'm not really here to complain about that, I'm just wondering if anyone else has an issue with this?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,076

    nwleee_a52bfead84 said:

    I got on the 9 train, but I think I want to get off at the next stop.
    As others have mentioned, there are a few things that seem like a step back from G8/8.1
    But one of the biggest turn-offs for me is G9's breasts (female).   They seem to point unnatrually outward (like the reverse of cross-eyed),  I can't seem to improve the shapes to make them look more "normal", even though I have several morph packages for G9.
    Anyway, I'm not really here to complain about that, I'm just wondering if anyone else has an issue with this?

    Make sure you are using the feminine and not the masculine torso material set.

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