Getting on the 9 train, or not

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,002

    For the curious, I did a naked render of G9 with feminine features. I specifically only used free G9 content (with the addition of an autofit G8 hair).

    I think it looks like a pretty decent nude pic.

    For $9.63 you could go a bit further with nipples and breast shape and facial features etc. etc., but for $0 you still have a bunch of eye colors and skins and fine details.

    My DA gallery is at: https://www.deviantart.com/willbear

     

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,855

    ChangelingChick said:

    maikdecker said:

    Oso3D said:

    It's disheartening to see so many people eager to
    call time of death on something that's been out less than a month.

     I think that's a quite unfriendly way to talk about people who just say that they don't like and probably won't work with a new product offered by a company. Other's might call it "valuable feedback", as in the majority of posts even the reasons for the unwillingness to use G9 are given. And as DAZland - and about every company on the planet - usually states: the number of people writing here on the forum is only a minimal percentage of the happy people out there using whatever product is givent to them... so a handful of complainers call for "time of death" on a product should be in no way noteworthy... unless sales' numbers show that they would be right.

    Are they right? devil

    They are not, in fact. :)

    The frustration is, we've been working with G9 and have seen all the improvements and how much easier and better it is as a whole than previous generations. While the forums are indeed a very small percentage of the user base, it's hard to see something you're excited about get bashed completely-- especially when a lot of the complaints are unrelated to the actual product (like a sale being shortened), or simply wrong because people don't know how it works yet. But the phrase "calling time of death" was used by a user here in the forums who used it about G9, so I'm not sure how it's unfriendly. It is dishearteneing to see so many people unwilling to give something new a chance. A real chance that is. If you go into something expecting to hate it, you'll find a reason to. 
     

    I didn't go into it wanting to hate it but for me it's just too difficult to work with because of the lack of facial surfaces. I ALWAYS play with lip colors and shine and often with colors of irises as well. G9 makes this impossible. If someone could make an easy way for me to easily adjust color and shine on lips, I'll reconsider but for now, it just makes things too limited for me. The whole surface panel is so complicated now. I understood how to change Uber settings to my liking but the new PBR settings are just too complicated for me. Also the hair issues and inability to change the color of the hair even if you just parent it? I suppose a PA will come up with a way to fit hair and I can change colors manually in surfaces but as great as G9 may be for PAs, it's a lot more work for users and in ways we have to do our own PA type work to make things work correctly. It's just too time consuming and not worth it if you have almost two decades of products you already own that work. For us, it's starting all over again and being forced to buy new products to make it usable or spending a lot of time trying to adapt existing products to work with it when we're perfectly happy with what we have. I have great Emma & Jordy, Rarestone, Handspan and other morphs, I have assymetical morphs, trans morphs to make characters male or female, FACS, bend morphs and countless PA characters, clothes and hair for previous generations... Sure G9 may be fine for new users, but there really isn't a logical reason longer time users need it especially when it takes more work to use and lacks surfaces. 

    I'll play around with it because it's a shiny new toy, but am I going to invest heavily into it when I already have so much great stuff and everything I need for G8? I think if PAs want to make sales, they have to go outside the box and create things we couldn't do with G8. New animals, aliens, creatures,  As of now I don't see a great need for G9 unfortunately and the whole surfaces issue just makes it mostly unusable for me. Maybe it's designed more for people who like to use things exactly how PAs create them out of the box but for those of us who like to be more creative and have more control, it's kind of a nightmare to work with. 

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,026

    ...excellent points.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,855

    lsoulrt said:

    BlueFingers said:

    CHWT said:

    BlueFingers said:

    ms_art said:

    @MikeyFTL - Nice work! I'm in the same boat as far as the realism of G9 drawing me back in. That, along with the improvements to the LIE (which make it actually usable), has me...intrigued. lol 

    MikeyFTL said:

    I lost interest in G8/8.1 almost immediately. I was never a fan of the multiple figures and always prefered male and female together in one. I was happy to see G9 go back to a single figure. Plus there's just something about the realism of G9's Iray renders that has resparked my interest in the whole platform to the point of wanting to create content for it again. 

    I mean look at him....or her....or they.

     

    Well that is actually one of the things that is holding me back. If I look at the most realisitic figures available for G8/8.1 (Babina/Victoria8.1/Jacqueline8.1) those were Daz Core figures. We've seen a couple of PA G9 figures now, but they do not reach the same level of realism that V9 gives us. Until I see the same level of realism consistenly across the G9 field I see no point of upgrading as they wlll give me the same level of realism I can get with 8.1.

    I agree with you on this, but have to add that most G8 DO core figures are far more realistic looking than G8.1 DO core figures

    I disagree, I think the implementation/adaptation of G8.1 could've been better and is one of the reasons G8.1 was not that popular, now I fear the same for G9. There were a few PA's that did a great job on the G8.1 skin but I was mostly disapointed in what is saw. Same goes for the HD morphs at SubD lvl 5. As an illustration:

    This is what I can get after just a bit of tweaking (minimal really) from G8.1 (items used can be found here):

    This is what is offered now:

    Both are Mousso characters, love Mousso. I feel a tweaked G8.1 has the edge over what is offered by PA's right now, so I don't see the point of upgrading to G9.

    These two pictures are good examples of why genesis nine turned me off or one of the examples. Here is what I mean. Look at the top picture of Genesis 8.1 female it looks feminine, but when you look the bottom picture of Genesis 9 female shape it's looks unrealistically masculine. Not too be mean but that face on the bottom picture looks like a guys face.

    Huh? How does that face look masculine to you??? Here's my render of her, I think she's gorgeous and feminine looking. But so do Mousso's G8 and G8.1 characters. I think they look equally good. I just don't see that much difference between G9 and G8. 

  • After many hours of experimentation I have decided on a pass for G9. I will use it for monsters and aliens, Oso is on my list for sure, but due to my extensive collection of skins, morphs, poses, etc it is a pass. With no one click solution to convert my characters or their skins to G9 plus having to manually copy my extensive morph collection over, it's a no. G8/8.1 was where I learned to use zBrush, Blender, and Substance Painter to make my own morphs and skin edits including my own normal maps since we don't have access to the HD tools. I have close to 100 custom morphs I created and edits of others to fit my style and personal taste since G8 was released and dozens of custom edited skins.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    Any bets which one will have the longer lifespan, Genesis 9 or Genesis? devil

  • With G9 Daz could have removed some Daz specific stuff to make it easier to use this character outside of Daz Studio. I always thought that Daz sells content. They introduced the Bridges, but should have made a more Bridge friendly character as well.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,752

    kyoto kid said:

    ...I'd like to see some fullly posed images, not just close up protraits 

    As the main "advantage" of G9 over previous generations seems to be the facial details, I don't expect too many full body shots in a discussion about "wow, look how great G9 looks...". On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to see any big differences anyway, like with the portraits shown here, which are great, but somehow don't look much different than great portraits done with G8(.1) figures. 

  • CHWTCHWT Posts: 1,179
    Now I am reworking my G8 shaders so that the G8s and G9s don't look like they are from different time spaces when in the same render
  • SolitarySandpiperSolitarySandpiper Posts: 546
    edited November 2022

    Peppa comes with 2 morphs and i think one if not both lend themselves quite well to a male conversion.

    The only difference is the skin and brows.

    peppa g.png
    1080 x 1080 - 2M
    peppa b.png
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    Post edited by SolitarySandpiper on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,967

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Any bets which one will have the longer lifespan, Genesis 9 or Genesis? devil

    Since a lot of the problems that occured with Genesis is solved with Genesis 9 - I bet on Genesis 9 angel

  • video

    I am having lots of fun with just the base

  • Every time I read about the train I can't help remembering the old Adams Family tv show when Gomez would blow up his trains lol!

  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,974

    just saying. G8.1. 

  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,974
    edited November 2022

    just saying. G8.1. 

    ry black4.enhanced1small800.jpg
    800 x 800 - 337K
    Post edited by daveso on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,076

    SolitarySandpiper said:

    Peppa comes with 2 morphs and i think one if not both lend themselves quite well to a male conversion.

    The only difference is the skin and brows.

    Those looks realistic and very good. That's what I like too. It's like you get two characters everytime you buy one character, regardless of the gender sold as.

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,739

    daveso said:

    just saying. G8.1. 

    Beautiful!!!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,026

    maikdecker said:

    kyoto kid said:

    ...I'd like to see some fullly posed images, not just close up protraits 

    As the main "advantage" of G9 over previous generations seems to be the facial details, I don't expect too many full body shots in a discussion about "wow, look how great G9 looks...". On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to see any big differences anyway, like with the portraits shown here, which are great, but somehow don't look much different than great portraits done with G8(.1) figures. 

    ...I rarely if ever do close up portraits as I'm more into scene building for illustration purposes. So I guess that means little advantage to adopting G9 eave for the Unimesh which hopeful cures the "big bust" issue previous generation Daz female characters tend to have, even supposed "teens".   

    Using various breast resource content (I have just about everything that has been  released) isn't always a fix due to it being difficult to reduce the circumference of the breast area (particularly with G3) without distortion of the aureole/nipple region that can affect clothing fits and textures (for example on more petite characters I never use horizontal stripes).  Also  some clothing doesn't work well with smaller breast sizes as there sometimes is a "smoother" modelled in to get rid of the old "Saran Wrap" look that creates a visible bulge with petite breast sizes. 

    With G1 I had the least amount of difficulty.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,357

    I do hope that whoever makes a sequel to Sakura 8 for Genesis 9 does not go the "custom eyeballs" route again. That made her very useless as a blendable morph, until 3D Outlaw made that special morph that let you use regular G8F eyeballs with her.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,040

    vrba79 said:

    I do hope that whoever makes a sequel to Sakura 8 for Genesis 9 does not go the "custom eyeballs" route again. That made her very useless as a blendable morph, until 3D Outlaw made that special morph that let you use regular G8F eyeballs with her.

    G9's eyeballs are already separate geometry, so make of that what you will.

  • I'll chill until Gen 10 shows up.

  • DSGN OverlordDSGN Overlord Posts: 30
    edited November 2022

    I will be very honest and say while I do see the improvements in Genesis 9 and Victoria 9, I was expecting a lot more. I know some will say, wait, more is coming. I don't know, I think we have reached a threshold between Genesis 8.1 and honestly this shouldn't have been called Genesis 9, it should have been called Genesis 8.2. Also the way that this is presented, with the new morphing system and the way the pose is brand new, seems to me like a money grab rather than a sincere attempt at doing something revolutionary. Like uping the ante. I have models in Gen 8 that I could shade better and pose better than Gen 9 and all the things coming out.

    So much of what is in the store now for Gen 9 is so bland and nothing to write home about. I know I am being a Debbie Downer, and that is not my intention I swear. I wanted to love the new Genesis iteration, but it is missing so many things that make me hate that I now have to expand a new library of items that will not be compatible with previous versions "Properly" and the lack of compatibility with Gen 8 at least seems like a very botched attempt at making the previous Gen clients happy. I bought the pose converter and it works great but that is it. So maybe I don't get all the technicalities, maybe Gen 9 bends better, Shades better, lights better, if so on all these, yet I feel we are at a point of diminishing returns in terms of quality. Whoever actually sees this drastic difference and it isn't a negligible difference please explain it to me. I mean Gen 8 from Gen 3 was an exceptional jump in Quality, but Gen 9 from Gen 8 feels like a gimmick....prove me wrong. Please educate me if I am missing something.

    ******in the pic Victoria 8.1 and the right Victoria 9

    vic.png
    2000 x 1500 - 4M
    Post edited by DSGN Overlord on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633
    edited November 2022

    While I think the new face options are great and look better, I feel the same way. But it also feels like it from the sales point of view. Characters and tools have been coming in drip feeded, as if this was all a last minute rush or there was no more time. I don't feel the wow-factor in that sense and this being a groundbreaking update. Which it isn't to me at least.

    Jay Versluis did a great demo before launch and that part was done well, but since launch, just not feeling it. Maybe they should let Jay do a few more tours of G9.

    Maybe I am wrong and in 6 months it's a different story, but I definitely haven't boarded the train yet.

    Post edited by Paintbox on
  • Yeah honestly I think you are absolutely right about your Jay comment, I saw that. You know what it feels like, as though a bunch of poses are just being repurposed and a bunch of things to get in on early. That hardly feels like a great start. I think there could be potential. But when you go from victoria 9 level to the other items being sold, that are of much lower quality. It does feel like this was botched from DAZ for their start to Gen9. Just My TWO CENTS.

  • DSGN Overlord said:

    I will be very honest and say while I do see the improvements in Genesis 9 and Victoria 9, I was expecting a lot more. I know some will say, wait, more is coming. I don't know, I think we have reached a threshold between Genesis 8.1 and honestly this shouldn't have been called Genesis 9, it should have been called Genesis 8.2. Also the way that this is presented, with the new morphing system and the way the pose is brand new, seems to me like a money grab rather than a sincere attempt at doing something revolutionary. Like uping the ante. I have models in Gen 8 that I could shade better and pose better than Gen 9 and all the things coming out.

    So much of what is in the store now for Gen 9 is so bland and nothing to write home about. I know I am being a Debbie Downer, and that is not my intention I swear. I wanted to love the new Genesis iteration, but it is missing so many things that make me hate that I now have to expand a new library of items that will not be compatible with previous versions "Properly" and the lack of compatibility with Gen 8 at least seems like a very botched attempt at making the previous Gen clients happy. I bought the pose converter and it works great but that is it. So maybe I don't get all the technicalities, maybe Gen 9 bends better, Shades better, lights better, if so on all these, yet I feel we are at a point of diminishing returns in terms of quality. Whoever actually sees this drastic difference and it isn't a negligible difference please explain it to me. I mean Gen 8 from Gen 3 was an exceptional jump in Quality, but Gen 9 from Gen 8 feels like a gimmick....prove me wrong. Please educate me if I am missing something.

    ******in the pic Victoria 8.1 and the right Victoria 9

    Thread merged as it was not a Daz Studio topic and the Commons already has this thread on the subject.

  • mumia76mumia76 Posts: 146

    G9 looks it took all the advances of last three generations and went back to be somewhere on the Genesis 1 level, or maybe even further back than that. The base character looks patently awful, having a single figure for male / female never works right and G9 proves that point again. The base feminine / masculine morphs are very weird and only make the character look even more deformed than the poor thing already is by default.

    Maybe if third party vendors create proper morphs for it, it might be salvageable, but I don't see any reason to switch to it right now, unless I want to make ugly characters quickly.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,168
    edited November 2022

    DSGN Overlord said:

    Yeah honestly I think you are absolutely right about your Jay comment, I saw that. You know what it feels like, as though a bunch of poses are just being repurposed and a bunch of things to get in on early. That hardly feels like a great start. I think there could be potential. But when you go from victoria 9 level to the other items being sold, that are of much lower quality. It does feel like this was botched from DAZ for their start to Gen9. Just My TWO CENTS.

    I kind of have to agree in part. Other than V9 herself, that first batch of clothing (those medieval dresses) and the morphs, I think it's been kind of "meh". NOT thrilled with what's been coming out for G9 since. I had high hopes at first that the clothing was going to look better, but what's been on offer since has looked (sorry, not trying to be nasty) even worse than what we've gotten in the past. The figure looks more realistic. Sorry, but the clothes and hair is going to have to as well, or it won't matter how good the figure looks. There have been a couple exceptions of course, like the new character from bluejaunte and an outfit from Sprite. But all in all, yeah...just not feelin' it much :'(

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,974

    as far as product releases for G9, I feel at some point we will see mainly products for G9 and the preceeding generations will slowly fade into the distance. There will be gnashing of teeth when there is not enough product for 8/8.1 soon. My only hope is that some of the gen8 stuff shows up in the cheap seats so it can be afforded.  I did buy the G9 morphs and expressions, plus the starter essentials expansion, but am now considering a return as, for me, this G9 character really doesn;t add anything that I couldn't achieve before. The fact is, I have a whole lot of products for G3-G8.1 anyway. 

    I keep going back and forth..to jump on the train or just jump off and stay off. I cannot fault DAZ for trying to make money. Its the name of the game. 

    Oh well. Toss a coin. 

  • DSGN OverlordDSGN Overlord Posts: 30
    edited November 2022

    I mean honestly if I can do this with Gen 8 with my own morphs what is it that Gen9 is going to do any differently? I have a collection of over 1000 items for gen 3 and gen 8/8.1. Gen 9 did not do something so over the top that I need to reinvest. Gen 9 is a pass unless it's something that can beat something like this easily.

    Post edited by DSGN Overlord on
  • ShimrianShimrian Posts: 533
    edited November 2022

    AllenArt said:

    DSGN Overlord said:

    Yeah honestly I think you are absolutely right about your Jay comment, I saw that. You know what it feels like, as though a bunch of poses are just being repurposed and a bunch of things to get in on early. That hardly feels like a great start. I think there could be potential. But when you go from victoria 9 level to the other items being sold, that are of much lower quality. It does feel like this was botched from DAZ for their start to Gen9. Just My TWO CENTS.

    I kind of have to agree in part. Other than V9 herself, that first batch of clothing (those medieval dresses) and the morphs, I think it's been kind of "meh". NOT thrilled with what's been coming out for G9 since. I had high hopes at first that the clothing was going to look better, but what's been on offer since has looked (sorry, not trying to be nasty) even worse than what we've gotten in the past. The figure looks more realistic. Sorry, but the clothes and hair is going to have to as well, or it won't matter how good the figure looks. There have been a couple exceptions of course, like the new character from bluejaunte and an outfit from Sprite. But all in all, yeah...just not feelin' it much :'(

    +1 to this. The medieval dresses were great! I could feel the weight of the dresses and they reminded me when I used to dress up for the Renaissance faire with the skirt lopped on the belt and stuff (my mom made very realistic costumes). When I look at later stuff, they don't look nearly as good and I'm not interested in lingerie. When I look at the face morph kit, I don't understand it. I think it slides in the uncanny valley on faces, but I've seen some great faces on G9 from you in the other thread so I know there is a lot more potential. It might also just be their style preference so I don't want to knock on it too much. I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with the shapes bundle I bought, but that's because it's new and I never really played with the G8 shapes/morphs so no idea how it compares. The G9 purchases I've made were definitely worth it for me just for this reason. :)

    I love new stuff, but G9 did take me by surprise. I've removed all the G8 and G8.1 people off my wishlists for now, but I'm not in a rush to get any G9 people either.

    Post edited by Shimrian on
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