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Modeling Objects in Carrara - Q&A - Come One and All

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  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 841

    Thanks so much, guys.  You realise that you're now prventing me from slinking away from this for another year.

    I took a look back through the early images of the beginning of this project.  Originally it was a turret and hull with no underside and the wheels just floated without being attached to anything.

    When this is finished, despite the recent work, it won't look all that much different!

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Marcus  yes   I've created a little Mini Tutorial for Path Sweep which mentions a few things not mentioned before. I'll post it separately.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Path Sweep Tool:  How to and a few tips.

    I didn't mention a few very important things.

    • After drawing your polyline and placing a poly to sweep from... First click on the polygon... then choose Path Sweep and last your polyline path which will be not selected.... I click on the first line segment of the polyline.
    • Most important is cleanup... the polyline you drew needs to be deleted.  Easiest way I know of is to click off of everything by choosing an area of the screen with nothing in it. The double clicking the object created by Path Sweep... zoom in if needed and move the object away from where it is and the polyline will be revealed... now just double click on the polyline, the object will be deselected and simply hit delete.
    • If you have any reason to want the polyline, perhaps as reference, I will save the ones not deleted as filename_template... whatever works for you.

    One thing I didn't show is creating Shader Domains... I can't remember if this is covered here. Cripeman had a video on YouTube for creating a Barrel which goes into this.  There should also be at least one link in my 2nd post on page 1 which explains how also.

    All else, hopefully, is explained in the pics... if not please let me know if it is missing or wrong.

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,053

    just to be clear, this is not my serious model

    (attached pic) just a rough concept blush testing some issues

    because a few issues I was finding arose trying to model a rollercoaster path/track course in 3D

    firstly if you draw a polyline curve from say a front or top view you cannot then soft select more than one polyline segment and move it along the other axis to create a 3D shape of say a loop d' loop etc

    however you can pathsweep a shape as I did there along it and softselect and pull that around

    however no matter which option I chose on the right it spins around as it sweeps making a rather messy tube you cannot slice the top off etc so you are left with once again selecting a loop on it and duplicating that to create your struts etc.

    I then thought ok do that delete the the tube and make a track from this new polyline loop

    then maybe sweep a triangle along it and delete two sides for a track base

    but again the bugger twists instead of sitting flat like a ribbon

    even adding thickness to the top of those struts I created it twists on itself

    its a single line, how does it decide it wants to twist????

     

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328
    PhilW said:

    I think you are your own worst critic - to everyone else, this just looks terrific!

    + another 1

    Absolutely wonderful!!!

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865

    Thanks, everyone for the wonderful comments.  I greatly appreciate them.

     

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    PhilW said:

    I think you are your own worst critic - to everyone else, this just looks terrific!

    I also agree with PhilW.  You've done a great job on that model - good levels of detail.  Keep it up!

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 841

    Thanks, all, for the encouraging comments.  I'm fearful of starting to hog this thread - especially as I first started this model as a thread in the Hexagon discussion.  But I hope later to summarise the lessons I've learned from my mistakes about how to go about a project in the hope these will be of use to anyone else only starting out.  Those not starting out have learned these lessons already!  

    A huge thanks to Wgdjohn for taking the trouble to show the path sweep step-by-step.  In passing I learned about selecting the grid on the left-hand icons to constrain the directions of travel permitted.  That's something I hadn't been making use of although I'm sure I've heard of it - possibly in Phil's tutorials.

    (It may be that that is what is giving Wendy difficulties - are the directions of movement constrained?)

    I followed your guidance John and did have some success but other times my tube's diameter was much bigger than the initial circle I was using as a profile.  This is what happens to me sometimes in Hexagon and I seem to get a vase rather than a pipe.  Practice is needed!

    Wendy, perhaps you could try using a half-circle as your profile then you should get a gutter shape rather than a tube, I think.  Abrupt bends generally smooth out well with subdivision, I find.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Wendy, the3Ddigit [the Mad Cat Lady],   You are entirely correct Soft Select does not work on any polyline... for what you are wanting I would choose Curve drawing, the one looks like an S with 2 dots... see below.  It is similar but different than Interpolated Curve in that you can can change directions and modify sections of it afterwards... notice the result is rather flat at the top left... I later selected just one segment of the polyline Curve and made it look more curved at that area... the result is the upper one of course.  When drawing curves with Curve sections of it can be modified with Move tool... I haven't tried Scale or Rotate.  I suspect the latter to work much like Move does... this is similar to Soft Select and some Vector drawing programs which don't have actual handles to control curves.

    Note also that my polygons to create the cure are hand drawn with a simple, the default, Polyline.  I drew it on the floor and later had to rotate it to the position I wanted... the ones shown are much larger than what I used which I scaled down very small.

    I noticed in a few places your "non serious model" is bunched up at a few curves... I believe it was Cripeman or DimenionT who explained not to have points too close together.  To fix the bunched up places just Loop select the offending, too close, lines and use Move Along to get them away from each other... might also need to rotate them a bit.

    Hopefully I've helped without over explaining. :)

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    Marcus Severus said:

    Thanks, all, for the encouraging comments.  I'm fearful of starting to hog this thread - especially as I first started this model as a thread in the Hexagon discussion.  But I hope later to summarise the lessons I've learned from my mistakes about how to go about a project in the hope these will be of use to anyone else only starting out.  Those not starting out have learned these lessons already!

    Have no fear of starting to hog this thread.  Regarding Hexagon and Carrara I consider them as un-identical twins... from the videos I've watched they are in many ways the same... I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that Hexagon has a few more features and was actually born after Carrara as a modeler for those who didn't want to pay for all the other features that Carrara contains.

    Please continue to summarize!  As soon as I get to know all the tools I hope to start a larger project than my simple little models.

    Marcus Severus said:

      A huge thanks to Wgdjohn for taking the trouble to show the path sweep step-by-step.  In passing I learned about selecting the grid on the left-hand icons to constrain the directions of travel permitted.  That's something I hadn't been making use of although I'm sure I've heard of it - possibly in Phil's tutorials.

    (It may be that that is what is giving Wendy difficulties - are the directions of movement constrained?)

    Good question... AFAIK the little grid icon on the left only selects which plane is being drawn on... I'm not sure as I was just reminded of it a bit earlier in this thread.

    See DimensionT's  Carrara Vertex Modeling Tutorial Part 2 for drawing in multiple directions, starts just past halfway. Notice that the bottom grid icon is always selected.

    Marcus Severus said:

    I followed your guidance John and did have some success but other times my tube's diameter was much bigger than the initial circle I was using as a profile.  This is what happens to me sometimes in Hexagon and I seem to get a vase rather than a pipe.  Practice is needed!

    Wendy, perhaps you could try using a half-circle as your profile then you should get a gutter shape rather than a tube, I think.  Abrupt bends generally smooth out well with subdivision, I find.

    When the tube's diameter is too large I just scale it down a lot. Note that there are 3 little squares to control the size... 2 are for x and y... while the 3rd will scale it proportionately... or you can use the right panel controls. but of course you likely already know that. :)

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,144
    edited February 2017

    Hi Wendy,

    I have been thinking of your roller coaster problem - and I don't think it can be solved using the path sweep tool. As an alternative, create a very simple cross section (we will smooth it later so it only needs to be simple). Place it at your start point and then duplicate it and move to the next point along the track, add rotation as required, then repeat until you have your whole track mapped out.  You may find it helpful to have a polyline of some description just to indicate where the track will go, but it won't actually be used in construction.  I also found it helpful to lay it out using the top view first, and then go back and adjust the heights and banking rotations as a second pass.  Then you need to shift-select each cross section in order - you can do this in sections if it helps - and use the Construct/Loft tool to join them together. Finally, apply a couple of levels of smoothing to the whole thing.  I have attached a quick and dirty example.

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    Post edited by PhilW on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,053

    thanks for the suggestions but I actually since  thought of a third obvious one.

    a straight track and bone it attach skeleton.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,144
    the3Ddigit said:

    thanks for the suggestions but I actually since  thought of a third obvious one.

    a straight track and bone it attach skeleton.

    Good call!

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
    edited February 2017

    A fourth option: Make modular sections and stack them together. Then you can easily create different layouts too. Roller Coaster Construction Kit. 

    Post edited by TangoAlpha on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,053

    I made a better monorail using a boned cylinder (108 bones on 200 segments)

    now working out orientation of the struts so they do not interfere with the cart's projectory.

    Then can brace them into an ascetially pleasing arrangement that looks structually sound to my eye at least, I am no engineer blush

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,125

    Like

    .

    the3Ddigit said:

    I made a better monorail using a boned cylinder (108 bones on 200 segments)

    now working out orientation of the struts so they do not interfere with the cart's projectory.

    Then can brace them into an ascetially pleasing arrangement that looks structually sound to my eye at least, I am no engineer blush

     

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,144

    Looking very cool!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328
    the3Ddigit said:

    I made a better monorail using a boned cylinder (108 bones on 200 segments)

    now working out orientation of the struts so they do not interfere with the cart's projectory.

    Then can brace them into an ascetially pleasing arrangement that looks structually sound to my eye at least, I am no engineer blush

    This is really cool, Wendy! Great workflow interpretation as well.

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited February 2017

    So...I think I'm done modeling the wellcar.   Now on to setting up material zones, UV mapping, and texturing....woohoo!

     

    And one with a consist and a model for scale...

     

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328

    I liked the flooring holes the way you had them before... but now I like them even MORE! Looks great... the whole thing! I take it you made the tracks sections too?

    Man... get that UV Mapped and textures and get it submitted to Daz3d!!! Waht a beautiful piece! 

    Curious, do you think that Jack Tomalin's train parts would fit the same track/cars? That would be awesome!!!

    Either way... I'd buy it. If they don't match up, we Carrara users could easily make them match! ;)

    Fantastic work! yes

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    There seem to be several different track gauges used by different products. I vaguely recall the Old Station set came with morphing rails so various different trains could use it.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328

    Trains are Cool!!!

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,963

    Is there a way to send one vertex to the position of another vertex?

    I have some models I want to fiddle with while preserving, as much as possible, UV maps and similar. If I can move edges together and weld I'll be far better off than if I use bridge (which would require destroying polygons and then playing havoc with uv map)

     

    Alternatively, is there a way to get more precise position information on vertices? The information provided is woefully inadequate to place vertices close together.

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited February 2017
    TangoAlpha said:

    There seem to be several different track gauges used by different products. I vaguely recall the Old Station set came with morphing rails so various different trains could use it.

    Thanks for all the comments!

    I don't know if it matches Jack's cars.  Mine is done to standard US rail gauge (1.435m or 4' 8.5").

    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Edit  / align  (CTRL+K)

    In the assembly room,. this will align or distribute objects (shift+click to select the second/multi object) ...there are multiple options in the align panel,. you can slect all three axis by clickin the little blue arrows,. and select align or distribute options.

    In the vertex modeller,. you'd select a poly,. Shift/Select a second poly,. then CtrlAlt click on a vertex  (this vertex will turn yellow) then choose edit / align (Ctrl+K) this will align both polygons.

    experiment with a few simple shapes.

     

    is there a way to get more precise position information on vertices? The information provided is woefully inadequate to place vertices close together.

    In the vertex modeller,.  (on the right hand panels) you should have X,Y,Z position values 

    depending on the tool selected,. these panels will show position or scale info.

    You can type in values,. and use units such as { in , mm , cm , mi , ft } etc.. (carrara will auto convert to your units scale EG: Metric / Imperial )

    You can also adjust the grid units,(CTRL+J)  and use the "Snap to grid" option (CTRL+G)

    I have some models I want to fiddle with while preserving, as much as possible, UV maps and similar. If I can move edges together and weld I'll be far better off than if I use bridge (which would require destroying polygons and then playing havoc with uv map)

      If you edit models,. adding or deleting vertices break the vertex numbering.

    Welding or bridging is the same.

    Don't weld stuff together unless you really want to, and are happy dealing with potentially remapping.

    Models can occupy the same space quite happily without being welded together,. see (any building with windows)

    Hope it helps :)

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,963

    I am working on geografts for organic figures in Daz, so I need to have stuff welded. So far it seems to be playing nice.

    Thanks for info!

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    I understand that Geografting is all new and sparkly,. but it's worth bearing in mind the fact that models have had "add on's" for a long time before genesis,. .

    V2,V3,V4 have sets of Horns tails wings etc.. (parented props),.

    is the only acceptable method now geografting ?

    Curious (as a non DS user)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328
    TabascoJack said:
    TangoAlpha said:

    There seem to be several different track gauges used by different products. I vaguely recall the Old Station set came with morphing rails so various different trains could use it.

    Thanks for all the comments!

    I don't know if it matches Jack's cars.  Mine is done to standard US rail gauge (1.435m or 4' 8.5").

    Awesome! Do you have plans to make more cars? I really like this one. Everything is very nicely detailed and looks really accurate. I've only had a tiny bit of experience tweak/fixing RR track, but I have had friends (all dead of old age now) (Grandparents (whom I've become good friends with) of my school friends) who have actually laid some of the original track in Michigan way back when - like a hundred years ago. I really had a blast listening to their stories and they had a real blast telling them. I thought it was a shame that nobody else cared to listen to them - so I made my ear available - and I loved it!

    Years later, when I was temporarily living and working in Milwaukee, I found a train maintenance yard, which is where I would hang out (on a bridge above the whole thing) to relax and clear my mind. Trains are just cool! I also like the big, burly (and really nice) men that keep them working! I chisel stone and don't work nearly as hard as those guys whom swing a sledge all day - though I used to do that too... and loved it! But it makes the whole skeleton ring. Nowadays my whole skeleton just hurts.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,328
    3DAGE said:

    I understand that Geografting is all new and sparkly,. but it's worth bearing in mind the fact that models have had "add on's" for a long time before genesis,. .

    V2,V3,V4 have sets of Horns tails wings etc.. (parented props),.

    is the only acceptable method now geografting ?

    Curious (as a non DS user)

    Right. I am limited in understanding as well, but it has to do with that these geografts parent to vertices so that they can follow shape morphs - at least I think that's how it works.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,963

    Geografts allow models to be treated as a new volume.

    Normally if you just tack on an extra whatever, or parent it, there is no actual link between the two objects. And sometimes that's fine.

    But in my case, I have stuff like 'replace someone's head with a big tentacle.' If you did that merely by hiding and plopping a parented object on top, there are a lot of potential problems.

    With geograft, I was able to take a model's neck, add weird stuff on top, and manipulate the neck so it flowed nicely into the new form. AND preserved the UV Map, so that at least part of the new graft is consistent with various skins. (See my DeviantArt link for examples of what I've been working on)

     

     

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