July 2016 New User 3D Art Contest “Portrait Rendering” – WIP Thread

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Been tweaking the lighting all day. Need to stop before I get sick this image. Open to suggestions though (if only to obsess over something other than the lighting).

     

    The image does need some lighting work, as you said. I think it is just too dark overall. That darkness is hiding what looks like an excellent image inside. I like the pose with her looking over the glasses. The expression looks appropriate and well done. I do see the "strange appendage" in the lower left that was mentioned by ewcarman.

    Is this an Iray image? If so, you might try adjusting the Tone Mapping settings in the Render Settings pane to brighten up the image. I'd start by subtracting 2 from the Exposure Value and go from there. There is also a great tool in the Daz store that makes adjusting Iray lighting much easier. That is Iray Light Manager Pro. It lets you adjust overall lighting while keeping the same balance between individual lights. I've found that useful for scenes where the balance between multiple lights seem OK, but the overall image is too light or too dark.

    I'm impressed by what you've put together here, so when you get over the lighting issue, I think you'll be well on your way.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    smerf said:

    Just a basic portrait, hope you like it. smiley

    You are off to a good start, @smerf.

    Something about this image has really captured my attention. I'm conflicted about whether the subject is a real person or a doll. I think it is the shininess of the hair and the uniformity of the skin that gives me the impression of a doll. But, you know, I kind of like that ambiguity. It has kept me looking at this image far longer than if it had simply been clearly a real person or clearly a plastic doll. I like her expression. She seems to be a little bit startled and caught off guard, but happy to see the person behind the camera.

    For a final entry image, you can let it render longer, to get rid of some of the noise in the shadow area of the image.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited July 2016

    Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Here are the adjustments I've made thus far...

    1) Toned down the back spotlight on the brick wall behind her. It was a little washed out looking.

    2) Added a little soft lighting to the right (her right) of her face to soften the shadows a bit.

    3) The flowers on her head piece were way too bright and were distracting people from viewing her face. I still wanted these white, just not as bright. Being that I needed to add more light to the same side of her face, this was a little challenging. Ended up leaving it as is in the render but hand brushed a little gray tone into them in Gimp.

    4) Added the rim light as two people suggested. Definitely helps make her pop from the background.

    5) Fiddled with the DOF, which I was able to get to work OK but it kind of made it hard to tell that there were stairs behind her, which I wanted to preserve. So, instead I added a little gaussian blur to that area and adjusted the light a little.

    All in all, the changes are pretty subtle but definitely seem to have made a BIG impact. Thanks to all that made suggestions. Definitely open to more!

    Before and After below...

    BEFORE

    AFTER

    It is refreshing to see a black and white portrait. I see you've already been working on feedback and making adjustments. I'm curious about your choice of a square aspect ratio. I think it is not a standard "portrait" aspect ratio, and I wonder if you chose that to achieve a particular effect. In a way, the dark left half of the image kind of balances the bright right half of the image. I think that effect is even more pronounced in the "BEFORE" image. So (call me a contrarian! surprise) other than the overly bright flowers, which you corrected in the "AFTER" image, I think the BEFORE image makes a bigger impact on me. I've come to really appreciate the stronger lighting and dichotomy between the left and right. It all comes down to what YOU the artist is trying to achieve. WE the onlookers will all have different opinions. smiley

    Edit: Oops, I see you have already posted this to the entries thread, which cannot be changed. I apologize for being late with feedback.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    Toyen said:

    I decided to try something with a bit more sophisticated expression.

     

    @Toyen, the girl, lighting and expression look pretty good to me. A little more render time will clear up the remaining noise. I understand what @evilded777 said about wanting her to look the other direction. I think we feel uncomfortable having her at the edge of the frame, looking out with all the extra space on the left. The fact that her head is about the same size as the background flowers on the wall, makes it difficult to keep focus on her face. The overly bright necklace at the bottom is also drawing my attention away from her face. I think with a little recomposition (perhaps a portrait aspect ratio), this could be a stunner.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited July 2016
    Toyen said:

    What do you think guys: Iray, no post-work.

    I'm thinking, maybe more color variety for the background?

    I like this. Are you still working on it? The pale skin has kind of it's own style and makes it stand out from the crowd a bit.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited July 2016
    zax797 said:

    this was another concept, that JUST finished rendering, could be a pre- or post- Sortie pose. Any suggestions?

    I like the way her hair stands out from the background, but overall, it is too dark for my taste. If you are going for a full body shot, I'd adjust the framing a bit so her knee is not cut off on the left side of the image.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited July 2016
    h_habash said:

    This is my second render (at 30%), changed the spotlight settings, I'm not sure if it is over lighted !!!!

    @evilded777 mentioned the Bloom filter. It does look as though the Bloom filter might be turned on and making white parts of your image too bright. Check the Filtering tab of the Render Settings pane.

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • franktuttlefranktuttle Posts: 67
    edited July 2016

    My total render count is less than 10, so I barely know what I'm doing.

    But I do like this image. My goal was to bring to life a fictional character, and I think I captured her pretty well. 

     

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    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    ewcarman said:

    Zoomed the camera in a little bit - not nearly as close as the last crop I did. Also continued playing with the eyes and subtle face morphs. Still second guessing myself on the eyes. Got to learn to stop doing that.

    Newbie here, but I just wanted to say that you are very creative and I really like this render!

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    @franktuttle, that's a very good start for having rendered only 10 images! That is pretty good skin for a beginner. You are doing well. A little more render time for the final render will get rid of more noise. I prefer the second image where we see more of her body. Even though this is a "portrait" contest, that cropping feels more comfortable to me. Here are some suggestions:

    1. I would suggest using a more "portrait" aspect ratio, like 8x10, rather than nearly square. You can change that in the General section of the Render Settings pane, if you want to. It would eliminate some of the buildings space on either side of her and focus more on the character. You might also want to adjust the camera angle or position of the background a little, so the green window divider is not aligned with the middle of her head, although it isn't really bothering me too much.
    2. You might want to consider using Depth of Field on your camera to blur the background a little and draw more attention to your character, unless you feel the background is significant in telling her story.
    3. I see that her left hand (on our right) appears to be clipping into her clothing a bit. You can adjust the arm pose to fix that.
    4. I see some distortion on the clothing in the area of the underarm. That is probably nothing you have done wrong. It is probably an older product or perhaps a garment for another generation model auto fit to this one?
    5. One eye seems to be looking up a little more than the other. Eyes can be hard to position some times.

    I'm curious - what character and outfit is this? I don't recognize either one.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    barbult said:

    I do see the big improvements in his eyes. The skin and hair look good, too.

    Some ideas:

    1. You could tighten up the composition by eliminating some of the blank space on the  right side of the image.
    2. I think his expression could be enhanced. What emotion is he trying to convey?
    3. The special effects sparks are a distraction to me and pull my focus away from the character. (I seem to mention distraction a lot in this thread. That must be a pet peeve of mine or something. indecision ) Perhaps a more dynamic pose that looked like he was throwing the spark ball at the person behind the camera would change my opinion - I'm not sure.

    Thank you @barbult! I'm unsure of what I want to put on the right side of the image, but if nothing then I'll tighten it up.
    Regarding his expression, I was trying to go for "I'm a fire mage and this is just what I do." Sort of like he knew nothing else but being a fire mage, and that destruction from fire was just what is expected of him. I do like your recommendation for a dynamic pose, so I will have to rethink his expression.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    dawnblade said:
    barbult said:

    I do see the big improvements in his eyes. The skin and hair look good, too.

    Some ideas:

    1. You could tighten up the composition by eliminating some of the blank space on the  right side of the image.
    2. I think his expression could be enhanced. What emotion is he trying to convey?
    3. The special effects sparks are a distraction to me and pull my focus away from the character. (I seem to mention distraction a lot in this thread. That must be a pet peeve of mine or something. indecision ) Perhaps a more dynamic pose that looked like he was throwing the spark ball at the person behind the camera would change my opinion - I'm not sure.

    Thank you @barbult! I'm unsure of what I want to put on the right side of the image, but if nothing then I'll tighten it up.
    Regarding his expression, I was trying to go for "I'm a fire mage and this is just what I do." Sort of like he knew nothing else but being a fire mage, and that destruction from fire was just what is expected of him. I do like your recommendation for a dynamic pose, so I will have to rethink his expression.

    Ah, I understand. He did have a bit of that "just another day on the job..." look. I see what you were going for.

  • SkpFXSkpFX Posts: 42
    edited July 2016

    OK, this is the first concept draft for my second image...

    Things I intend to accomplish with this one...

    1. Set up my own lights. The last image used the lights from the Barefoot Dancer tutorial, and this one is currently using the lights from the Fiery Genesis tutorial. I've got the basics of simple lighting, but getting colors correct is difficult for me because... Um... Yeah there's that.
    2. Gonna go through the throws of converting an HDRI and setting up the UberEnvironment. It's going to be a forest scene.
    3. Gotta get that bridge into the Cycles render engine and bake some decent wood textures.
    4. I heard somewhere that you can edit overrides on clothing bones. Gotta fix how her dress is hanging.
    5. I've got to finish those shoes, with decent textures, and frilly ankle socks.

    Now for the bad news. I buy my internet month to month, and the DAZ store beat me up the last couple days. Probably won't be posting frequent updates. Maybe that's good news... Discuss.

    Have fun!

    EDIT...

    Oh! and #6, There's gonna be dragonflies. She likes dragonflies a lot. And she likes chicken, because it tastes like rattle snakes.

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    Post edited by SkpFX on
  • smerfsmerf Posts: 3
    edited July 2016
    barbult said:
    smerf said:

    Just a basic portrait, hope you like it. smiley

    You are off to a good start, @smerf.

    Something about this image has really captured my attention. I'm conflicted about whether the subject is a real person or a doll. I think it is the shininess of the hair and the uniformity of the skin that gives me the impression of a doll. But, you know, I kind of like that ambiguity. It has kept me looking at this image far longer than if it had simply been clearly a real person or clearly a plastic doll. I like her expression. She seems to be a little bit startled and caught off guard, but happy to see the person behind the camera.

    For a final entry image, you can let it render longer, to get rid of some of the noise in the shadow area of the image.

    Thank you barbult. I have a lot of trouble getting skin and hair to look natural, the character was meant to look like a real person. Will work a bit more on the lighting as the render went for 10,000 samples.

    In the mean time I have been playing with this fellow.

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    Post edited by smerf on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    SkpFX said:

    OK, this is the first concept draft for my second image...

    Things I intend to accomplish with this one...

    1. Set up my own lights. The last image used the lights from the Barefoot Dancer tutorial, and this one is currently using the lights from the Fiery Genesis tutorial. I've got the basics of simple lighting, but getting colors correct is difficult for me because... Um... Yeah there's that.
    2. Gonna go through the throws of converting an HDRI and setting up the UberEnvironment. It's going to be a forest scene.
    3. Gotta get that bridge into the Cycles render engine and bake some decent wood textures.
    4. I heard somewhere that you can edit overrides on clothing bones. Gotta fix how her dress is hanging.
    5. I've got to finish those shoes, with decent textures, and frilly ankle socks.

    Now for the bad news. I buy my internet month to month, and the DAZ store beat me up the last couple days. Probably won't be posting frequent updates. Maybe that's good news... Discuss.

    Have fun!

    It's looking pretty cute already. Are you making your own frilly socks? If not, Dogz has some nice ones in the Daz store with some Mary Janes shoes. I'm not sure if they would fit your character or not.

  • zax797zax797 Posts: 15

    still working on the lighting on this one, but I am getting closer. I did fix the posing on the hand holding the e-cig.

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  • barbult said:

    Been tweaking the lighting all day. Need to stop before I get sick this image. Open to suggestions though (if only to obsess over something other than the lighting).

     

    The image does need some lighting work, as you said. I think it is just too dark overall. That darkness is hiding what looks like an excellent image inside. I like the pose with her looking over the glasses. The expression looks appropriate and well done. I do see the "strange appendage" in the lower left that was mentioned by ewcarman.

    Is this an Iray image? If so, you might try adjusting the Tone Mapping settings in the Render Settings pane to brighten up the image. I'd start by subtracting 2 from the Exposure Value and go from there. There is also a great tool in the Daz store that makes adjusting Iray lighting much easier. That is Iray Light Manager Pro. It lets you adjust overall lighting while keeping the same balance between individual lights. I've found that useful for scenes where the balance between multiple lights seem OK, but the overall image is too light or too dark.

    I'm impressed by what you've put together here, so when you get over the lighting issue, I think you'll be well on your way.

    Thanks for the comments and the tip on tone mapping. My images always seem darker after I post them than what I see in the render library on my computer. 

    I'll work on the pose/angle/crop to remove the mystery of the appendage.

     

  • SkpFXSkpFX Posts: 42
    barbult said:
    SkpFX said:

    <snip>

    5. I've got to finish those shoes, with decent textures, and frilly ankle socks.

    <snip>

    It's looking pretty cute already. Are you making your own frilly socks? If not, Dogz has some nice ones in the Daz store with some Mary Janes shoes. I'm not sure if they would fit your character or not.

    I had my monthly shopping spree, and got one of the 3du Little Ones. I took a chance, but seeing as how it's a Genesis 3 model I was pretty confident that it would morph and work with other content. That's 65% on the body, 45% on the head, then mixed in 90% of Blaire's head and tweaked the mouth a little. Also got Skyler's poses and expressions. It's actually kind of turn key for making a cute kid. 

    Going to have to make my own socks. It's the 10th of the month and I'm broke. The shoes were a project for me, and every time I look at them they look like an unfinished project.

  • sueyasueya Posts: 832

    Hi this is my first draft for my portrait. It is about 25% render using Iray which took about half an hour on my slow laptop.

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  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180
    dawnblade said:
    ewcarman said:

    Zoomed the camera in a little bit - not nearly as close as the last crop I did. Also continued playing with the eyes and subtle face morphs. Still second guessing myself on the eyes. Got to learn to stop doing that.

    Newbie here, but I just wanted to say that you are very creative and I really like this render!

    Thank you! I'm looking forward to seeing how your Firemage render progresses. You've got a lot of interesting elements there. Ice Dragon Art had some good feedback too.

  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180

    My images always seem darker after I post them than what I see in the render library on my computer. 

    I have that same issue. My gallery has several examples where I posted an image I thought looked great on my computer. Then you'll see the corrected one with more light right next to it. Maybe it's a Murphy's Law thing were the most glaring issues aren't discovered until you submit your work for public review. smiley

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    edited July 2016
    barbult said:

    Boy Wonder

    I won't be entering, just here for the conversation, the back and forth, the sharing of ideas.  Thanks for the assists in making an image that I am proud of and that pushed me.

    @evilded777, amazing sharpness and contrast on this one! Is it a self portrait?

    Nah, that's my boy wonder: sidekick, love, spiritual son. And thanks.

    Post edited by evilded777 on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    sueya said:

    Hi this is my first draft for my portrait. It is about 25% render using Iray which took about half an hour on my slow laptop.

    I am going to suggest a portrait orientation here, and some serious cropping.  Interesting character, but... she is dominated by all the dead space around her. We need to see her, not the empty room she is in.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    tcmeehan said:

    Hi everyone! I finally got a chance to put a WIP together.  My computer's been in the shop getting fixed but I have been keeping up with the thread on my phone.  There are some really good portraits this month!  The judges have their work cut out for them.  I wanted to try to work some DOF field into my render but was having a hard time coming up with a hand gesture that looked natural.  Hands are so difficult!  Any suggestions?

    Also, for a second portrait I am thinking of doing a render inspired by one of the old master oil painters like Gustav Klimt or Rembrandt.  The Klimt would require making a lot of patterns in Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop and applying them to clothes and background.  Rembrandt would probably mean raiding the store for just the right props and wardrobe.

    Convincing use of DOF and the hand looks fine, so check those off.

    I love the warmth and the color of the light... but with her expression and her beckkoning hand, she needs a softer light.  Swing that spot around so its not casting that harsh shadow on the right of  her face and add some fill.   Maybe broaden that spotlight as well. I am assuming that's a spotlight...

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited July 2016
    sueya said:

    Hi this is my first draft for my portrait. It is about 25% render using Iray which took about half an hour on my slow laptop.

    I am going to suggest a portrait orientation here, and some serious cropping.  Interesting character, but... she is dominated by all the dead space around her. We need to see her, not the empty room she is in.

    Good advice. I'd lower the camera, too, so we are more on her level, rather than looking down on her. Thanks for joining the contest. I look forward to seeing your next update here in the WIP thread.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbult said:

    Here's version g. I tried to make use of DOF to blur the background some.

    I think it looks pretty good. I like the way the flames and lights are reflecting off of his clothing and highlighting some areas. I can't see the irises and pupils of his eyes. They seem to be rolled back into the top of his head. Or are they some kind of robotic/alien eyes?

    I hadn't even noticed that his pupils and irises might not be seen. Might just be his expression on top of the angle of his head. I'll look when I get a chance.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    barbult said:

    Here's version g. I tried to make use of DOF to blur the background some.

    I think it looks pretty good. I like the way the flames and lights are reflecting off of his clothing and highlighting some areas. I can't see the irises and pupils of his eyes. They seem to be rolled back into the top of his head. Or are they some kind of robotic/alien eyes?

    I hadn't even noticed that his pupils and irises might not be seen. Might just be his expression on top of the angle of his head. I'll look when I get a chance.

    You can try adjusting the eye up/down controls in Pose Controls in the Parameters pane.

  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180

    Hopefully final image. Thank you to everyone who provided feedback. Nice to get beyond that "can't figure out what's not right" feeling.

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    @Wonderland, Be sure to add the list of software you used for your images in your postings in the Entries thread. (Rule 6)

  • barbult said:

     

    It is refreshing to see a black and white portrait. I see you've already been working on feedback and making adjustments. I'm curious about your choice of a square aspect ratio. I think it is not a standard "portrait" aspect ratio, and I wonder if you chose that to achieve a particular effect. In a way, the dark left half of the image kind of balances the bright right half of the image. I think that effect is even more pronounced in the "BEFORE" image. So (call me a contrarian! surprise) other than the overly bright flowers, which you corrected in the "AFTER" image, I think the BEFORE image makes a bigger impact on me. I've come to really appreciate the stronger lighting and dichotomy between the left and right. It all comes down to what YOU the artist is trying to achieve. WE the onlookers will all have different opinions. smiley

    Edit: Oops, I see you have already posted this to the entries thread, which cannot be changed. I apologize for being late with feedback.

    Thanks for the feedback @barbult. I did purposely use the square aspect ratio. I tend to like interesting backgrounds even more than the main subject most of the time so square just gives me more play room. Usually I have to fight from going landscape!! I did really dig the first render. Call me a contrarian as well, but while most people are usually trying to move lights around to soften shadows, I usually try to find ways to do cool stuff with the shadows or two different colored lights on either side (These two examples are my normal style: https://www.daz3d.com/galleryimage/image/142536/tuscany_425_auto.png. and https://www.daz3d.com/galleryimage/image/171866/sheet-music_425_auto.png). As you can see, I love a good left and right disparity as well. But I tend to be way too aggressive with this sometimes. But I also am not an artist. I frankly know nothing about the subject. I just happened to come across Daz by accident one day and fell in love with trying to make cool stuff.

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