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Hello,
I made some adjustments ...
lord.siotrad: That's really pretty. It looks, to my eye, that the original head is tilting up, while the 3d is more..down...
Not quite the right terms,...but like the head needs to be sweeped a bit to the left.
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Something I'm having trouble with.. my picture is currently framed as the original at 16:9. I'd like to add more space to the top, changing the ratio, but keeping the camera pointing were it is...Like the picture illustration?
Anyway to do this?
You could simply uncheck "Keep aspect ratio" in the render settings, then increase the height value...
You could simply uncheck "Keep aspect ratio" in the render settings, then increase the height value...
That expands from the center both ways...I guess I could do that and crop? Is there a better way?
Aside from moving the camera around, I think the aspect ratio is the quickest and easiest way.
To build upon (not disregard) the previous comments on your image...
I think also the lights are different, so the impression is different. There's a lot of washed out white, anyway. The original has a lot of textures from the liquid effect (which is brought out by shadow). Whatever shadows you have to play with, the light is killing it off right now. More shadow would be good, I think. Or, at least reposition the lights that are burning out all the shadow.
I like the leg peaking out more in the earlier attempt (more color, I guess, in contrast to the white), and the arms are more or less okay. She just seems more buttoned down in the newer picture, where the inspiration image has the liquid effect to play with. You need to counter the loss of the liquid splash, I think... but I don't know what control you have over the skirt.
I think the upper torso also could be a bit more, um, banging? The original picture, the model is pushing out and up with her chest compared to your image, where the model is sitting back a bit more. She needs to go "bang", be more fierce, and grab the scene a bit more.
A little snarl, or a show of teeth (like the original) can help with that scene-grabbing look.
Ok, some more adjustments...think it's just about good.
I think blurring the background helped the white figure a ton... the grey figure is still very close in tone to the background, particularly the helmet. I think I would go into the surfaces of his armor and make the ambient/diffuse a lighter grey, just on his armor pieces. I think changing the overall camera made everything darker and what more needs to happen is something just on the foreground. A point light with falloff so it only hits the character would also help as long as it is coming from the same direction as the rest of the light. No worries, this is a 31 day month, there is tons of time left. And if you submitted as is, you would NOT be in a bad place. This is just a tweak that has nothing to do with the poses, just something to make it more readable. It is looking very good! This is one of those times when there is a lot of variation between light and dark at the edges, and a border mask would also help the piece look more cohesive.
I am posting an example of what it would look like with the armor lighter and with more contrasty light on it.... (img name: good evil comparison) I used photoshop, but it would be better done in the render since photohopping will make an edge that a trained observer will notice. I selected just the armor and weapons of the grey character with the quick select tool in photoshop, which is not how I would recommend doing it as you will get a visble edge... but I wanted a visual on what it would be like if the armor was slightly lighter and more contrasty.. which could happen in the render with the ambient and a point light.
Next... I am showing what I mean by an edge mask. To make one, I make a top layer, filling it with the darkest dark in the image, and use a feathered marquee to cut a hole in this dark layer about 20 pixels in from the edge, and then play with its size and opacity to get the right amount of dark border without being too much.
For comparison of edge mask vs no edge mask, the top image has the edge at 100.0% oppacity vs no edge mask on the bottom. (img name good evil edge mask)I personally think 50 or 60% would be better but that is a personal choice... I just wanted to illustrate how an edge mask or border mask can the whole thing feel more cohesive. A dark border would help further.
And lastly there are before and after with both changes. (img name good evil bfr aftr) I hope I havent overstepped the bounds.. but sometimes a "visual" can be helpful. The differences are subtle but I think it helps the grey figure look more distinct from the background, and read as being closer to the viewer.
addendum, pulled the border mask example from the last post because it was making the other images hard to read.. here it is, it is transparent, despite the fact the forums are sticking it on a background:
Here is what I am working on for my second pose image for this month. I am not sure if it will get done as this is one of two in a series, and the render time is impossibly long because of the glass. This one is the naughty little girl caught in nature faerie's jar... the second is for a bird contest over at Hivewire with the "naughty boy" version. The naughty girl has been hunting butterflies and fairies and the "butterfly fae" captures her, for the naughty boy version, he has been shooting birds with a slngshot, and the "bluejay fae" traps him in a jar as well. The idea is from an old Celtic theme.. "Will you be the hunter or the hunted one?" ;-)
I think a few of us learned how hard it is to recreate a pose when the character leans on an inanimate object! It has been a good opportunity though. I am MUCH more at ease with the difference between the collarbone and shoulder dials, for example. Posing the boy took half as long as it would have before.
I must admit, lightening the armor on the grey figure does look better. I never did get that character's face to show up as much as I'd like so I will add more lights to try to fix that and I'm not sure if I have a rim light for that figure or not so maybe that will help bring out the edges.
Scavenger, that really is a challenge, but your human ist pretty close to the original.
There are some details that might need a little adjustment: The hip of the human attacker is in the original almost vertical to the floor. So there is to much twist between the upper body and the lower body in your image. If you turn that around the kick of the right leg can go out almost straight giving it much more force. That will automatically reposition the left leg wich in the moment seem to much bent.
The right arm with the weapon needs to point more direktly toward the opponent, else it goes into an ineffectively sidewarts swing, wich the original does not.
As for the dragon, maybe you can make him push his head back, as the original human opponant does. Then you can move the two a bit closer together.
So much for the moment, I will come back for the others later today.
Fiona, this is a good turn on a frequently used scene and I really like the concept. I have to say though that your render here is very crowded and hard to read. I seems to me you want to put too much information into the image to get your point through. For one I would reduce the size of the jar by about half. Then I suggest to leave away the magic and put the jar into the faerie's hand directly. If you want to keep the magic effct maybe use it on the lid? For me the blue butterflies are a bit too repetitive (maybe you aimed for that effect?) one or two to flutter about her head would be enough ig guess. As for the boo I would sho only the top quarter with the replaced word and the upper painted faery that woud give a better view on the capturing faery and might "calm" the whole image.
Ok, I hope that was not too much criticism, as it is not even about the pose (which ist pretty close to the original) :red:
It seems I didn't need to adjust the color on the grey's armor, just adding a couple more lights to help make the figure "pop" more also lightened the grey as well.
Here's the most current :)
Very nice. Your grey armoured figure really stands out from the background now. Well done.
Sweet! Yeah, much more readable now. Funny how my image is getting the same feedback- I guess when you look at something so long, right? Additional eyes help
Fiona, this is a good turn on a frequently used scene and I really like the concept. I have to say though that your render here is very crowded and hard to read. I seems to me you want to put too much information into the image to get your point through. For one I would reduce the size of the jar by about half. Then I suggest to leave away the magic and put the jar into the faerie's hand directly. If you want to keep the magic effct maybe use it on the lid? For me the blue butterflies are a bit too repetitive (maybe you aimed for that effect?) one or two to flutter about her head would be enough ig guess. As for the boo I would sho only the top quarter with the replaced word and the upper painted faery that woud give a better view on the capturing faery and might "calm" the whole image.
Ok, I hope that was not too much criticism, as it is not even about the pose (which ist pretty close to the original) :red:
All feedback is good feedback, and an commentary that is well thought out is certainly a blessing! I appreciate the time. I agree witha lot of what you say. I need to think about how to fix it! Your suggestions are very good. :-)
Once more unto the breach...
I've been messing around. I figured out that the Fog thing was set to 100% opacity. I dialed it back.
I messed around with the Iray ubershaders. I still am getting to understand how they work, but I like how they look on the sword. I have to tweak the scabbard.
I've already tweaked the eyes. I don't like how they look in this one, but the current render isn't done yet. I also changed to a different eye that shows the sclera (the whites of the eyes) more white. Between changing the position of the iris & making the sclera more white, I think I've made the eyes look bigger without actually changing the shape of the eye... which was something I wanted to do... but it's not in this picture :) It's in the next one.
95% done, I think. The next one will be closer.
EDIT: Oh, the other thing is, I want to make the light less orange-ish. I have to mess with that. The skin has a Jersey Shore feel to it, and I kind of want to make it less so.
All feedback is good feedback, and an commentary that is well thought out is certainly a blessing! I appreciate the time. I agree witha lot of what you say. I need to think about how to fix it! Your suggestions are very good. :-)
The only thing I'd add is that the first couple times I saw your image, I didn't notice the figure in the jar.
I don't know if I'd reduce the size of the jar as much as increase the proportion of the jar's participation in the final image (and, by default, make the sleeping girl in the jar more obvious).
The other pieces look good, but it's like I'm missing the figure/pose you're trying to recreate.
For ideas, I'd look at those classic cartoon/animation moments where the cat (or some other hunter-figure) is looking into the fishbowl or the birdcage. I think it needs more of that hunter-hunted element than you've got. Or, maybe it's the faerie figure. She needs a bit of a predator's snarl. Show those canines, or something.
I understand why the book is there on the outside of the jar... I guess I'd rather to read the book on the inside of the jar instead.
OR... maybe keep the magic, but make it so there's more opacity or something to highlight the contents of the jar.
The girl in the jar just kind of gets lost, in any case.
Those are my rambling comments.
Thanks for the comments Linwelly.
I think I've hit the point of diminishing returns. I adjust the pelvis, and the legs go wrong..I adjust the legs, and the feet are wrong, I change the y axis and everything goes wonky. SO I think I'll move to the finishing the piece part of the process.
Time to wrap it up for this project. I had lots of fun trying my hand at converting a 2d image of dancing figures into a three dimensional scene that is then rendered back into 2d. It was a heck of a lot easier working with live models way back in my schooling days.
Special thanks to kismet2012 and Linwelley for your advice on hands and back problems, fionathegood for the shoulder drop morph tip. It worked wonders. And Scott-Livingston for the posing ideas and also how to get rid of those annoying spheres that came with the dress.
Best of luck to all entering the contest. It must be a hard job for the judges deciding who the winners will be with so many excellent renders I've already picked my favorites but will still submit my work just for the sport of it but for me the whole learning experience was it's own reward.
@Scavenger: The pose adjustment on your dragon and the change in colour really reads quite well.
@robborfla1: The character's positions look much more natural now with the changes you have made.
@The Blurst of Times: Those last few tweaks to lighting or surfaces are so fiddly but usually worth it in the end. I am looking forward to seeing your final image. (Love your name by the way)
This has turned out to be a much more challenging contest than I original expected. Translating the pose in a 2D image to 3D models was not easy. So many times I wanted to turn the 2D image around so I could look at it from a different angle. Everyone has done an amazing job on their poses.
Congrats to everyone involved, participants and organizers.
It tickles me pink when someone is able to use something I suggest, and I am sure the others as well appreciate you letting us know that advice was helpful. I felt bad that I didnt offer you much, and some others much... it was a busy month on this end. I think your render is AWESOME and I agree that the judges will have a hard job. As they say on "The Voice" during the battle rounds, "You did your job, you made it hard for me." I don't think posing is easier than figure drawing from life, though. I suppose its a matter of experience... and the frustrations of the limitations of 3d. And I agree that the learning experience is what we are here for... to be among others of like mind is an award, too. :-)
Doo bee doo bee doo.. waiting for a 16 hour render... doo be doo be dooo,,, suppose I can see if I can offer anyone 11th hour advice!
Edit: (Thought I should mention I LOVE the lighting and the placement of that shadow is genious!)
The only thing I'd add is that the first couple times I saw your image, I didn't notice the figure in the jar.
I don't know if I'd reduce the size of the jar as much as increase the proportion of the jar's participation in the final image (and, by default, make the sleeping girl in the jar more obvious).
The other pieces look good, but it's like I'm missing the figure/pose you're trying to recreate.
For ideas, I'd look at those classic cartoon/animation moments where the cat (or some other hunter-figure) is looking into the fishbowl or the birdcage. I think it needs more of that hunter-hunted element than you've got. Or, maybe it's the faerie figure. She needs a bit of a predator's snarl. Show those canines, or something.
I understand why the book is there on the outside of the jar... I guess I'd rather to read the book on the inside of the jar instead.
OR... maybe keep the magic, but make it so there's more opacity or something to highlight the contents of the jar.
The girl in the jar just kind of gets lost, in any case.
Those are my rambling comments.
I feel like kicking myself- YES, I should look at references for how to get her with that right proportion of face to bowl, and bowl to image and how to get that menace on her face. Thank you for saying that. Everyone is right that it is too crowded.... I ALWAYS do that. I have a thing against negative space, it seems. And wanting to tell too much of the story when it would be more interesting to let the viewer have some mystery. Le sigh. Do you ever feel like- wherever you go, there you are? I made the same mistakes for my Hivewire contest entry 1...found here: Peril of the Salt Marsh Sparrow Not to mention the freebie contests, although those seem to require "stuff" because of the product requirements. Meh!
Edit: I cant get the link to work, but there are some great renders in the contest gallery, if people want to check it out. I am in way over my head over there, but if you never try, there is on chance to succeed, or grow!
The only thing I'd add is that the first couple times I saw your image, I didn't notice the figure in the jar.
I don't know if I'd reduce the size of the jar as much as increase the proportion of the jar's participation in the final image (and, by default, make the sleeping girl in the jar more obvious).
The other pieces look good, but it's like I'm missing the figure/pose you're trying to recreate.
For ideas, I'd look at those classic cartoon/animation moments where the cat (or some other hunter-figure) is looking into the fishbowl or the birdcage. I think it needs more of that hunter-hunted element than you've got. Or, maybe it's the faerie figure. She needs a bit of a predator's snarl. Show those canines, or something.
I understand why the book is there on the outside of the jar... I guess I'd rather to read the book on the inside of the jar instead.
OR... maybe keep the magic, but make it so there's more opacity or something to highlight the contents of the jar.
The girl in the jar just kind of gets lost, in any case.
Those are my rambling comments.
I feel like kicking myself- YES, I should look at references for how to get her with that right proportion of face to bowl, and bowl to image and how to get that menace on her face. Thank you for saying that. Everyone is right that it is too crowded.... I ALWAYS do that. I have a thing against negative space, it seems. And wanting to tell too much of the story when it would be more interesting to let the viewer have some mystery. Le sigh. Do you ever feel like- wherever you go, there you are? I made the same mistakes for my Hivewire contest entry 1...found here: Peril of the Salt Marsh Sparrow Not to mention the new user contests, although those seem to require "stuff" because of the product requirements. Meh!
I am the same way with lighting. For some reason I render too dark. But knowing and recognizing our own tendencies is half the battle. Then we have to make the necessary adjustments. Sometimes easier said than done. ;-)
It's interesting- in this contest, the focal point is supposed to be the little girl, but in the naughty boy bluejay version for Hivewire, the focus ought to be more on the birds. In which case I might have to solve the problem of too much "busyness" differently for the two renders. While I am waiting for the 16 hour render, I played around with the recompose tool on photoshop to crop/eliminate unecessary information. I also increased the contrast on the girl, significantly. Hmm... how to get the same effects in Daz..
This is what I came up with. Do you think it is better? Still too cluttery? Or am I losing too much information about the jar? As far as my next render goes, I think I need to..
Put a light with strong shadows on the girl...
Rotate the fae's arm that is holding the jar inward, so that it is covering about half her face.
Use a stronger DOF so that the background is blurred even more.
Pull the camera in closer to crop out unecessary information
Maybe have the fae's book hand holding it from above instead of from below?
Fix the expression on the faes face.
(fwiw the weird color of the log is already fixed)
Let me know if I should add or subtract from my to-do list. ;-)
Fiona, you have made a good start clearing that image up, but there is one very basic question I have: are you bound to the portrait format? Why not using a landscape a square or whatever so you have more room to move stuff around?
This looks really good now, and the light effects on the sword are great. Unfortunatly, as I still shy away from the Iray I don't know anything about light or skin effects, but I'm sure you will find out
Nice render, especially I like the light and shadow effect on the wall. The pose looks very dynamic, good catch on that. I'm glad I could be of some help for you.
I re-posed the character to try to get it closer to the original image. Here is the newest render. comments and suggestions are welcome. I have another new WIP i will post up soon.