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Comments
Linwelly- I had asked about it being a Gen 2 figure because I -believe- that it has breast shape morphs? (It's hard to remember sometimes which morphs come with which product).In any case, if her breasts had a little less horizontal volume, there would be less armpit crunch. (I wish IRL I had morphs for this issue... TMI probably, but true! :-P)
G2 makes it easier to find the pectoral morphs, which sometimes can help as well. Although, my "stock" G2 has very few options for body morphs compared to Gen. She can stick her tongue out! YAY I guess.
Also when I was new to this I generally ignored collar morphing, which led to bizarre armpit problems as well.
Teofa- I didn't think you would want to change the pose, sometimes things are *important*, and I figured the pose fit that category. But I threw the suggestion out there anyways, just in case. I still believe its the ivy that is distracting, so finding something to minimize it's clutter would allow more emphasis on the eyes. (A volume sphere emerging as fog between her and the wall, for example, would tone down the ivy's contrast, softening it, and making it less noticable compared to the figure). I hope that you don't give up on the single figure image as the sense of her waiting, serene but confident, is very compelling.
The single figure has more room to play, I might try some things. Sadly, mention of "volume spheres" SSS, or anything "uber" brings out my latent Luddism.. I'm not very techie.
On the 2 figure image I do like the way the ivy curls and frames the main figure. I may go into surfaces and adjust the green down on them. I often do a greyscale in Corel just to see what the color is doing.
And on that note, my fully cooked image for now.
oooh doing a greyscale is a terrific idea! It is so difficult sometimes to isolate an image's hue, saturation, brightness, contrast, and I am going to completely use this idea. Thanks!!
Here is my final version!
The only thing I don´t like is that strange highlight on one of the heels but it has the same material as the rest of the shoe so somehow the lights created that one strong highlight on one of the heels and that makes it look as if it was made of much brighter material than the rest of the black shoes but it isn´t.
But that doesn´t matter now, I will not be rendering it again since this render took 8+ hours!
HOWEVER, I have decided to go ahead and do a male version of Waiting for my Valentine (thats what I´m gonna call the image) with just the basic G2M since I don´t have any other males and here´s a quick IPR preview.
Let me know what you think!
Stories I made up for the renders are:
Girl: came into the room, saw the wine and a rose for her with a note from the guy saying he´ll be there shortly but he wasn´t coming so she finished the wine herself, forgot about the rose and dropped it on the floor and now she´s tired about to fall asleep.
Guy: patiently waiting for his valentine to come.
I was thinkin about two follow up renders where in the guy´s story, the girl finally comes and they drink and chat and in the girl´s story, the guy arrives but finds her sleeping.
But I don´t know whether I´m gonna do them or not and I also guess it doesn´t really matter with which one I enter the contest since the lighting is the same in all renders.
This thread is loaded with such useful information! It's taken me all week to read through and look at everything, and I've learned so much. I don't know if I would call my image finished, but did want to show how it's changed and improved since I started reading this thread.
I was going for a very pale, washed-out scene, with the figure, Giselle 6, blending into the background somewhat, and shades of only two colors (white and blue) being really prominent. In the first image, the lights weren't doing what I wanted, and I had to move the background plane way back from the figure before the smudgy shadow went away. Half the battle was working out how the light worked against the background, and how to get it to keep some of its color, but still be whited out behind Giselle. The second one is what I was aiming for. It has:
1 uberenvironment2 light, pale blue with intensity turned way down
2 spotlights, one dark blue aimed at the figure from the back and one white aimed at her from the front
1 distant light, pale blue
The end result is kind of hard on the eyes with all that white, but I think I may drop the image into Photoshop or Painter and put a border or frame on it to break up that bright white around the edges. Any further suggestions for improvement are very welcome.
Apologies for the double-post, I know it's annoying. But my internet connection is slow or something, and for some reason I wasn't able to add both images to the first post. Here's number two:
UPDATE: I only saw the first image but pretty much everything I said also applies to the second one except for the shadow which is now gone.
If you do not want the shadow there, I´d change the image format (still too much unnecessary blank space in the render in my opinion).
Hey there mary!
I´d definitely lower the intensity of that light that is creating such strong white highlight a bit. Some parts of the figure and the glove are now being washed out which is a shame.
I love the blue light coming from the back and the transition into her her orange skin in the front in the shoulder area, looks fabulous but that is another reason to lower the highlight so that her skin could show up more on the arm.
Next thing I´d reconsider before you call it a day is the composition. Right now there is a huge empty area in your render.
That shadow in the back looks great but one thing I´d definitely do is move the camera down a little bit to get rid of that unnecessary blank space above her head OR if you want this exact part of the figure to be in the view, then I´d zoom in.
It is entirely up to you but I personally, would make more of the character visible to the viewer so I´d definitely move the camera down and maybe even a little bit to the right so that her left arm isn´t cropped and is still in the view BUT not if it would sacrifice parts of the shadow.
In a situation like this I save the render as a png and overlay it on the background I want in Corel. I don't use a plane for things like this so it isn't affecting anything like shadows and reflections.
Follow your own visions, and use what you learn here to pursue those visions. I'm fine with the starkness of your image.
To load more images in a post use the preview or edit option, which will give you a new browse option for image.
Fireside Chat
Greetings all! The Fish Camp piece lighting emphasis was mood, Fireside Chat emphasis deals with using light and shadow to enhance and define shape and texture. Although a bit whimsical, I feel good enough about it to share it for your reaction and input. Hope you all had a great Valentine's Day celebration. :)
(re: TobiasG's image)
(snip)That was a more negative sort of feedback than I usually give, especially for a New User Contest, so I should probably clarify why I said it that way...there are two reasons:
1. I've been an admirer of TobiasG's work for a while and know what he's capable of.
2. I think this is a great image all around, but I don't feel that it's primary strength is in the lighting...and since lighting is the focus of this particular contest I thought it seemed like an area to focus on.
At any rate, it was supposed to be constructive criticism but I fear it may not have come across that way. I apologize if that's the case.
Nice work, and good improvement from the first to the second version of your image. I think the pale starkness works well...actually, if anything it's got too much dark in it: specifically the character's outfit really stands out and draws the eye away from where you want it to be (the face). Putting her in a paler costume, even a plain white one, might be advantageous.
Secondly, I think it's fine to have all that blank space: it can serve more of a purpose in your image rather than merely being empty. It's historically been an important technique for many artists, particuarly in Japan (which may be important to note, since your render seems to have a certain Japanese aesthetic and theme). I'm not a professionally trained artist, so I'll defer to those who are...here are some sources on negative space that you (and others) may find useful:
http://truecenterpublishing.com/photopsy/negative_space.htm
https://thismomentjapan.wordpress.com/tag/ma-negative-space/
https://wawaza.com/pages/when-less-is-more-the-concept-of-japanese-ma.html
http://naldzgraphics.net/design-2/11-reasons-why-white-spaces-are-good-in-graphic-design/
https://www.flickr.com/groups/theartofemptyspace/pool/
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2013/05/22/arts/power-and-mastery-of-the-blank-space-toko-shinoda/
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/t/tap/7977573.0002.210/--ma-and-photography-four-emerging-female-artists-from-japan?rgn=main;view=fulltext
That was a more negative sort of feedback than I usually give, especially for a New User Contest, so I should probably clarify why I said it that way...there are two reasons:
1. I've been an admirer of TobiasG's work for a while and know what he's capable of.
2. I think this is a great image all around, but I don't feel that it's primary strength is in the lighting...and since lighting is the focus of this particular contest I thought it seemed like an area to focus on.
At any rate, it was supposed to be constructive criticism but I fear it may not have come across that way. I apologize if that's the case.
I thought your post was effective as constructive criticism, I apologize if my response came across as defensive. I appreciate that you guys have known each other a while and the I am the new kid on the block, and that you can push each other to get good results without venturing into an emotional "I'm hurt by that feedback" realm. I personally didn't think your original post was too harsh, and if Tobias and the admins are good with it, no worries. For that matter if my post was too harsh, I apologize! I also want to push people to excel, but never into feeling badly about their work. I have so much respect for people's bravery to show their work, it takes a lot of guts to put art that you have worked hard to create, and care about, into the crucible of feedback I personally LOVE getting the harsher type of critique where people say what they think, and am used to it. So feel free if you ever want to tell me what you think as I know my work is far from perfect. I expect it to be flawed...its the figuring out how to see the flaws that other people notice that is the challenge, as most people are "too close" to their own work to see it objectively. Taking that feedback, figuring out what to do to correct the flaws, and implementing changes effectively, is what pushes artists to become better. And well... as someone who offers a lot of opinions, I know an opinion is just an opinion. Something that one person sees as a flaw another may see as a strength. Opinions- like em or lump em. So no worries here. The way I see it, feedback of any kind is far more valuable than silence...
Welcome to the party marykb... so glad you posted your image! I also love how the blue wraps the figure and interacts with the skin tones, it is a gorgeous effect... one which i want to happen on my own character. Unfortunately my character has so much hair, it blocks the light from my moonbeam from hitting her face and causing that backglow that you have so successfully achieved.
I like the white background, and the proportions of it, but I think it reads as "glowing". If you cut down the intensity of the light, it will also affect the figure and the balance of the lights which you have worked for, so I am not sure turning down the white light is the answer. I am not sure, at this point, if the figure is too washed out. It is good that she blends into the background because that is the effect you wanted, but it may be possible to do so more softly. The interplay between the white of the background and the white of the figure is crucial to this image. One way to cut down on the dayglo feel of the background may be to make your primitive a neutral 10% gray. That way the white light turns it white without going overboard. You might even be able to lean the gray towards blue a little without making the blue halo from the blue light "too blue". Adjusting the dial on the gray percent will make a big difference, I think. If you can get the background to read as a soft white as opposed to a stark white, you will be able to see whether the figure is too white or just right.
I think the changes between figure 1 and 2 are gorgeous. I love the hair and the earring, and decrease in the "bumpy" texture of the top material. Furthermore I think you have used a very short depth of field very effectively-the reflection on the shoulder and the blur of the breast area are very nice, as well as the difference in sharpness of the hair on the right side of the image vs the left. Manipulating a short depth of field is not easy!
Something that might be fun to try- right now the angle of the white light is hitting the iris of the eye closest to us, making it wash out some. If you rotated the spotlight slightly so it pointed at the same spot, but came from a higher angle and aimed more downward, the eye would be in shadow of the hair, which normally would not be a good thing.... but... It looks like she is looking at something out of scene... Once that eye is in shadow instead of picking up the bright light, you could put a small, tight white or light blue point light out of scene in the direction she is looking, to create a highlight on that pupil. I think this would add to the "what is she looking at?" mystery and make the eyes more interesting.
Her pose is also very subtle, and nicely done. She does not look "posey", as my sister calls it when my 3d figures aren't quite proportioned/positioned subtley enough to be believable. One thing I would check though, which may be an effect of your depth of field distortion, is the size of the hand. Here is an easy proportion check for hands: If you put the heel of your hand against your chin, with the fingers reaching vertically towards your hair, if you are female, the longest fingertip will land somewhere in the temple area between the brow and hairline. If you do the same with the figure's hand, you will notice the difference.
I really like that you are using Giselle, I have wanted to see her in a render, and I think she is on my list when I get to buy new toys. The promo images make her look too elven, but you have shown she does that anime feel very well. Something that might work with the Japanese art-style instead of a frame might be a simple block print or inkwash on the far left. Maybe some simple japanese text, a very feint bamboo tree, blue cherry blossoms, etc might give a "finished" feel in a more traditional way than an american style border. Like so:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/23/5c/3a/235c3ae2e53d8794eb54f95dc8735cdd.jpg
These are all just suggestions, it is very nice as is. I LOVE blue light! The image is coming along very nicely and I look forward to seeing your ideas grow.
Continuing on...didn't get to research new lighting techniques today..spent the day relearning how to configure cisco routers so maybe I can get a good job again :)
But, played with the sign reflections (and Truck's dashboard light/mirror)...the signs aren't doing what I want..
I took the diffuse jpg for the signs, flipped it (because that's what seemed to be needed for the reflection map) and put it in the reflection slot.
while it reflects light, there's no gradient, and all of them glow, rather than just the ones getting hit with the headlights.
I have a 0% reflection, 50% and 100%
Fiona, I like your second image the best. There is nice separation between your background and your subject. I like the color combo of this image better as well.
As for your creating a glow around the window I think my bag of tricks is empty. Maybe someone else may have some ideas.
I think the only thing I would do with the image is tweek the bump on the bear and her shirt to give a more weave like appearance so that it looks more like cloth. Also it looks like you may have to dial down the secularity on the shirt because you have some white spots running along her left arm sleeve.
Looking real good my dear. I think you should be proud of yourself. You have come a long way from when you first started.
Your most welcome Giovanni. Well I think I need to go into student mode and come sit at your feet for awhile. It is amazing how subtle your changes were and just how much improvement you got from them. I do like the results very much.
Scavenger, why dont you use the method that makes your ufo glow so nicely on your traffic signs. I don't kow how you did it but it looks very neat, and I guess you could tone that glow up and down to your liking according to the amount of light that comes from the trucks headlights.
ps: and good luck finding a new job
Thanks for the detailed feedback! I really appreciate it. :)
I added the dark edges in postwork, with a Filter Forge effect. I like to use it with most of my renders, as it's not that obvious, but still something which binds the render together. I guess I could play with a Saturation/Brightness mask, but the contrast in this render is supposed to come from techy suit vs swamp, and warm/orange color vs greenish swampy color.
As you can see, I added a helmet light. Additional features like a gadget to the right, a vehicle, or something like swamp gas would move the attention away from the scout, I don't want that.
That was a more negative sort of feedback than I usually give, especially for a New User Contest, so I should probably clarify why I said it that way...there are two reasons:
1. I've been an admirer of TobiasG's work for a while and know what he's capable of.
2. I think this is a great image all around, but I don't feel that it's primary strength is in the lighting...and since lighting is the focus of this particular contest I thought it seemed like an area to focus on.
At any rate, it was supposed to be constructive criticism but I fear it may not have come across that way. I apologize if that's the case.
No sweat! I didn't take your feedback to be negative at all. I'm relatively tough, ;) and the tone here is really very friendly - I can take it :) Anyway, I actually prefer a stronger criticism, it gives me more useful feedback.
As you can see, I added a techy light. I might tone the helmet light down a tad (probably in postwork, though - these volumetrics take forever to render).
AH, yes putting a better shape to the breasts might be a good idea (as mentioned by fiona as well -> thanks for repeating that for me).
As for the light on the scientist, I actually wanted her to look hard and somewhat cold. Keeping the little one in the container she can't be a nice person. But changing the colour of the shirt could result in a better outcome, I will have to try around some more on lights and colourI guess.
Thanks for the detailed feedback! I really appreciate it. :)
I added the dark edges in postwork, with a Filter Forge effect. I like to use it with most of my renders, as it's not that obvious, but still something which binds the render together. I guess I could play with a Saturation/Brightness mask, but the contrast in this render is supposed to come from techy suit vs swamp, and warm/orange color vs greenish swampy color.
As you can see, I added a helmet light. Additional features like a gadget to the right, a vehicle, or something like swamp gas would move the attention away from the scout, I don't want that.
TobiasG, truly great progress! Only one thought, not necessarily a suggestion, for me his "body language" could be more intense. I would accomplish that by extending his arms back some and bending his upper torso forward a bit . . . just a thought. I agree on the volumetric lights, my image took over ten hours to render, but well worth it. Great job! :-)
Your most welcome Giovanni. Well I think I need to go into student mode and come sit at your feet for awhile. It is amazing how subtle your changes were and just how much improvement you got from them. I do like the results very much.
Dollygirl, there is a response in Italian that I like very much, "Grazie . . . sei troppo gentile." Thank you . . . you are too kind! Your use of the word "subtle" is also very pleasing, as I often associate subtlety with sophistication. Thanks! :-)
TobiasG, truly great progress! Only one thought, not necessarily a suggestion, for me his "body language" could be more intense. I would accomplish that by extending his arms back some and bending his upper torso forward a bit . . . just a thought. I agree on the volumetric lights, my image took over ten hours to render, but well worth it. Great job! :-)
Thanks!
I had him adjust the helmet lamp. More or less done, I think.
That helmet light is a very nice improvement to the scene! Good job!
Thank you, and thanks all for the feedback! I just submitted the last version :)
The single figure has more room to play, I might try some things. Sadly, mention of "volume spheres" SSS, or anything "uber" brings out my latent Luddism.. I'm not very techie.
On the 2 figure image I do like the way the ivy curls and frames the main figure. I may go into surfaces and adjust the green down on them. I often do a greyscale in Corel just to see what the color is doing.
And on that note, my fully cooked image for now.
Nice work...I like how the staff turned out. I do think your focal character could use a little more illumination, especially considering how the illuminated staff draws the viewer's eye away from her. Otherwise I find the lighting in your scene very effective.
If you're making your own shaders, I don't think you would find UberVolume too difficult (and that's probably the trickiest of all the Uber's, in my experience). But I also don't think that this particular image needs it. :)
I love the warm, cozy lighting, especially the realistic fire. Have you thought about adding a toy or creature for the cat to play with? It might help to "sell" the cat's pose if it's interacting with an object.
These are looking really nice...I think you've gotten the lighting just right! The only thing I don't care for is the tube light...not because it doesn't look good, but because it's distracting, given that it's the brightest thing in the scene. I'd almost want to crop out the top part of the image entirely, but that might hurt the overall composition. Using depth of field might be a better solution...if the background is out of focus, that will keep the viewer's attention on the central characters. We did a contest on depth of field a couple of years ago (that's when I learned to use it) and you can find a lot of good information in that contest's WIP thread.