Daz Studio 5 development update

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  • IlenaIlena Posts: 283

    Yeah. I know people who have actually considered ditching Daz studio for good multiple times because it just would not run on Linux. I know at least two people who abandoned software, so that is lost profit. Updates would not even be that big off an issue with flatpaks. As long they make it run stable they don't need to be hard at work all the time.With windows they have to be with constant updates that can make or break the software itself.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    bluejaunte said:

    PerttiA said:

    wolf359 said:

    Zero proof the there is even  a statisticaly  signifigant demand from the general gobal linux user base. 

    But there are DS users that would be thrilled to have an opportunity to jump out of Windows train. 

    OS with an already tiny market share, software made primarily for artists who are even less likely to use Linux, I highly doubt there would be more than a handful of people interested in this.

    By the way, the quote in your signature never really happened.

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2534312/the--640k--quote-won-t-go-away----but-did-gates-really-say-it-.html

    "Made for artists", maybe but many of us are computer enthusiasts, interested in 3D modelling and what can we do with it, nothing to do with being an artist.

    An old timer has confirmed the quote in one of the threads here in the forums.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    Ilena said:

    It maybe tiny and look as not valuable to put in time and resources, but long term effect would certainly be felt. I'd jump the gun out of windows if daz gave linux option. Stability, literally no freezing when using daz along with other programs in the background, no clutter, smart allocation of resources-also privacy . I'd feel much safer shopping over at daz, for example, if I knew 100% personal data couldn't be stolen. I am sure there are those Blender users who would even start to look into selling their assets on daz. So it's not fair to undersell an OS.

    I wish people would say these things about the Macintosh OS. But there's such an undercurrent of hostility (I think), that comes through whenever people say that the delay in DS 5 is due to wasting time fixing things for those Mac users, and spending too much time developing a separate progam for them. At least, so it seems to  me. I'm not trying to start an argument. I am trying to say that I've been hurt by what seems to me to be disgust by non-Mac users towards Mac users.

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,592
    edited December 2022

    Daz Studio, Poser, Marvelous Designer, iClone , ... none of them are available on Linux.

     

    Linux often prefer GNU open source softwares.

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,902

    A lot of Linux desires is a "grass always greener on the other side" issue. I'm not immune to this, I wished for more software on Linux in the past with pipe dreams of leaving behind Windows but the reaility is it doesn't quite work like that. Besides the practical reasons why devs cannot support a 2% market share OS, there's also the issue that Linux is still an IT tech support job in disguise that the vast majority of people do not have time nor skill for. If anything came out of the recent Linux experiment by LTT it's that stuff does not just work the way that a lot of people fantasize about. You're going to be configuring, fixing, work-arounding, sifting through endless posts online trying to find relevant information that may or may not be completely outdated already or not apply to your distro or windows manager at all. Your hardware may not work, a lot of drivers are going to be wonky or outright none existant.

  • This is a thread about Daz Studio 5, not the pros and cons of different operating systems.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,130

    I believe an OS made specifically for artists and content creators would be very popular.

    Neither Mac, nor Windows qualifies as one such OS.

    I can only imagine what it would be like to run an OS that is tailored to content creation. Just the exclusion of the hundreds of background running processes  that do nothing but eat resources that I would rather have for my work.

    Not many years from now, computers will need a secondary graphics subsystem with 12GB of VRAM just to run the Windows UI. Possibly even a separate CPU(dual or even triple socket home desktop computers) just to run all the Windows processes.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,902

    PerttiA said:

    bluejaunte said:

    PerttiA said:

    wolf359 said:

    Zero proof the there is even  a statisticaly  signifigant demand from the general gobal linux user base. 

    But there are DS users that would be thrilled to have an opportunity to jump out of Windows train. 

    OS with an already tiny market share, software made primarily for artists who are even less likely to use Linux, I highly doubt there would be more than a handful of people interested in this.

    By the way, the quote in your signature never really happened.

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2534312/the--640k--quote-won-t-go-away----but-did-gates-really-say-it-.html

    "Made for artists", maybe but many of us are computer enthusiasts, interested in 3D modelling and what can we do with it, nothing to do with being an artist.

    An old timer has confirmed the quote in one of the threads here in the forums.

    This is highly OT of course, I'll just say one more thing about that quote. Think about it, do you honestly believe a sofware architect and tech guy like Gates would say such a thing? And if he did, that it wouldn't have been at most in some highly specific context? I used to love the quote too, but if you take a step back and really think about it, plus the fact that nobody can actually find any proof for the quote, plus Gates vehemently denying it, it is highly doubtful he would ever say such a thing and mean it in the way the quote is used today.

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,592
    edited December 2022

    Daz Studio 4 still works very well, so I'm not hurry.

    DS5 can wait for Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series Graphics Card and Gen. 10 characters.

     

    Will DS5 get a refreshed UI like Daz3D Shop and Daz Central ?

    Compatible with Windows 10/11 Dark mode would be appreciated.

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    I would be THRILLED if Daz decided to make a Linux verson for Studio. However, I'm also realistic about it and would never expect it. LOL

  • wolf359 said:

    Daywalker Designs said:

    As I am someone that would like to see a Linux version of DAZ Studio, I can say that you don't need to focus on a specific distribution to develop a version that works on Linux. All you need to do is make sure you can find a compatible version of the C runtime library and QT on the system during the install process, which can be handled by a script.
     

    @DaywalkerDesigns

    Distro discussion aside.

    One still needs to show Tafi/Daz real data to indicate that there is some huge ,untapped demographic of EXCLUSIVE linux users who have acces to the linux version of Blender or  Maya but are somehow waiting for an opportunity to enter the Daz Genesis eco system and willing to $$spend$$ money there.

    People currently using Daz studio on windows who would go and  re-download the Linux version of DS do not represent growth in the user base and thus would not justify the cost of porting to another platform.

    Also  I would imagine that the  DAZ PA’s would at least have to QA their products on a Linux machine yes ?

    As a point of information, not in the vast majority of cases as content should be platform-agnostic.

    so you are asking them to agree on a  “Distro”  and  learn a whole new  OS & development environment as well.

  • AllenArt said:

    I would be THRILLED if Daz decided to make a Linux verson for Studio. However, I'm also realistic about it and would never expect it. LOL

    A version (semi-officially) working on wine would be pretty great too. Unfortunately drivers for linux are so and so, depending on the case. (Not diving into monopolism and how government agencies could change that by demanding generic protocols and specification for everything they order in bulk, in order to be able to use it with generic drivers written by third parties, in theory. Different strategy, different topic.)

     

    I'm considering running Studio in a virtual machine with Windows on, based on linux/kvm. Might dedicate the GPU to the VM, in which case i need to find a passively cooled GPU for the host that works and hardly uses power. Since the workstation is quite powerful, i'd feel better with a linux/kvm base. But i am not sure, how/if it works +-well and the licensing. I assume a dedicated assignment wouldn't be an issue, but that remains to be checked. Of course, if it works at all, it would cost some performance, but for rendering on the GPU, it won't matter that much anyway anymore.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Here's what we know about DS5: It's being developed.

    That's pretty much it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,083
    edited December 2022

    wsterdan said:

    inquire said:

    wsterdan said:

    For Linux users, Mac or PC people could install Blender on their machines (or a spare, super-low-end machine), move their DAZ content to Blender, then use that Blender content on one of the Linux flavours that Blender supports. 

    Alternatively, they could spend less than $25 a month and move the files to Maya 3D Indie instead.

    Edited: My spellwrecker decided that "Linus" was more popular than "Linux", fixed.

    @wsterdan: Oh, my Gosh! I didn't even know this existed. And I guess "Indie" is short for Independent Video Game. Is that right?

     No, you're counted as an "Indie" if you make less than $100,000 a year on creative projects. If you're interested, check into the details to make sure you qualify. It's the full version of Maya 3d, not the "LT" version, for less than eighty cents a day.

    ...there's also a 3DS Max Indie for 290$ a year which breaks down to about 24$ a month.  

    Now that has me interested.

    Maya LT is for indie game developers and also costs 290$ per year so you are better off with Maya Indie as that is the full programme.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,349

    kyoto kid said:

    wsterdan said:

    inquire said:

    wsterdan said:

    For Linux users, Mac or PC people could install Blender on their machines (or a spare, super-low-end machine), move their DAZ content to Blender, then use that Blender content on one of the Linux flavours that Blender supports. 

    Alternatively, they could spend less than $25 a month and move the files to Maya 3D Indie instead.

    Edited: My spellwrecker decided that "Linus" was more popular than "Linux", fixed.

    @wsterdan: Oh, my Gosh! I didn't even know this existed. And I guess "Indie" is short for Independent Video Game. Is that right?

     No, you're counted as an "Indie" if you make less than $100,000 a year on creative projects. If you're interested, check into the details to make sure you qualify. It's the full version of Maya 3d, not the "LT" version, for less than eighty cents a day.

    ...there's also a 3DS Max Indie for 290$ a year which breaks down to about 24$ a month.  

    Now that has me interested.

    Maya LT is for indie game developers and also costs 290$ per year so you are better off with Maya Indie as that is the full programme.

    Both are very decent prices for someone serious about 3D (as always, Blender is free). The only complaint I've heard on either Indie packages is that you need to be careful watching your renewal; the default is to renew at full price, so you need to be sure to handle the renewal manually. 

  • No more OS talk please, no more general licensing talk. Please keep the diuscussion focussed on Daz Studio 5.

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,349

    Sorry Richard, will do.

  • tfistfis Posts: 129

    A manual would be nice.
     

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,829

    tfis said:

    A manual would be nice.
     

     

    Daz has a new master class series on YT

  • There are those, me included, who find video tutorials both a desperately inefficient way of transmitting information and catastrophically shallow. A 30 min video can usually be completely encompassed by 10 bullet points. And if you increase the information density in the video, it washes over the heads of people and they miss it. A book is highly efficient, and non sequential you don't have to waste time waiting for the narrator to get to the only point you need. You have an index. You can find what you want to know fast and efficiently. Regards, Richard.
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    richardandtracy said:

    There are those, me included, who find video tutorials both a desperately inefficient way of transmitting information and catastrophically shallow. A 30 min video can usually be completely encompassed by 10 bullet points. And if you increase the information density in the video, it washes over the heads of people and they miss it. A book is highly efficient, and non sequential you don't have to waste time waiting for the narrator to get to the only point you need. You have an index. You can find what you want to know fast and efficiently. Regards, Richard.

    +1 yes 

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,829
    edited December 2022

    A book is highly efficient, and non sequential……

     

     

    And expensive to produce publish & Distribute.

    None of the Major 3DCC’s & game engines publish printed manuals.
    why should DAZ take on such $$costs$$$ for their free software when expensive competitors like Reallusion won’t even do it.

    Working in a 3D program is a highly visual activity best learned trough direct observations of the application being used in a video.

    Daz ( and the rest of the 3D/CG software world) understands this.

     

    Consider that as human being you learned how to use eating utensils, tie your shoes, even groom yourself by watching

     “live video” of matured people in your environment ,perform these tasks LONG before you ever learned how to read some book of  written instructions. 

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    wolf359 said:

    A book is highly efficient, and non sequential……

    And expensive to produce publish & Distribute.

    None of the Major 3DCC’s & game engines publish printed manuals.
    why should DAZ take on such $$costs$$$ for their free software when expensive competitors like Reallusion won’t even do it.

    A PDF can also be considered a 'book' 

  • PerttiA said:

    wolf359 said:

    A book is highly efficient, and non sequential……

    And expensive to produce publish & Distribute.

    None of the Major 3DCC’s & game engines publish printed manuals.
    why should DAZ take on such $$costs$$$ for their free software when expensive competitors like Reallusion won’t even do it.

    A PDF can also be considered a 'book' 

    That, and it's not as though the tutorial videos were all done on the fly. Someone had to write a plan and a script, and that right there is the material that people say costs so much to make. It's already written before it's been recorded. Now add to that cost the equipment and hourly rate of someone recording the videos, editing outtakes, and making it look all pretty, and tell me again that it's too costly just to write it. 

  • a PDF is what I expect if a software has a manual

    nobody said book

  • tfistfis Posts: 129

    With "manual" I meant of course a pdf or help file.
    Something, where it is written down how stuff works.


    Sorry, if I've chosen the wrong expression.
    My mother tongue isn't english. Obviously.

     

  • IlenaIlena Posts: 283

    I think there was published book The complete Guide to Daz studio 4 way back. It was good for the time, but long an update is long over due. As for whole book /manual thingy that you mentioned my mind kind of went for a pdf aka a manual. Then again english is not my native, mother tongue either so I figured what you meant. Don't sweat it. It's easy to fall into the trap when you juggle more then one language.

    Also, Marcus doess have a fair point. I got the feeling it would not be that much of a hassle to make a manual of sorts when someone is clearly putting way more effort in producing the videos. I can tone down the wish for another OS version, but a detailed manual would be nice. Again optimising the software so it doesn't use so much resources on windows that will likely by 2030 need to have a NASA hardware to be able to run without a hitch.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    richardandtracy said:

    There are those, me included, who find video tutorials both a desperately inefficient way of transmitting information and catastrophically shallow. A 30 min video can usually be completely encompassed by 10 bullet points. And if you increase the information density in the video, it washes over the heads of people and they miss it. A book is highly efficient, and non sequential you don't have to waste time waiting for the narrator to get to the only point you need. You have an index. You can find what you want to know fast and efficiently. Regards, Richard.

    Right. That used to be called Bilt In Orderly Organized Knowledge, i.e., BOOK. There was a short essay about how BOOK was superior to videos. That was years ago. An index or a detailed table of contents can get you to what you want to know faster than watching a video.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    wolf359 said:

    A book is highly efficient, and non sequential……

     

     

    And expensive to produce publish & Distribute.

    None of the Major 3DCC’s & game engines publish printed manuals.
    why should DAZ take on such $$costs$$$ for their free software when expensive competitors like Reallusion won’t even do it.

    Working in a 3D program is a highly visual activity best learned trough direct observations of the application being used in a video.

    Daz ( and the rest of the 3D/CG software world) understands this.

     

    Consider that as human being you learned how to use eating utensils, tie your shoes, even groom yourself by watching

     “live video” of matured people in your environment ,perform these tasks LONG before you ever learned how to read some book of  written instructions. 

     

    While there are good points to this, essentially the John Dewey "learning by doing and watching," a book can be digital, a PDF, as someone else pointed out. Sometimes, also, you are not a beginner, and you don't want to go over material you already know. You're looking for one item, and an index of table of contents can get you there faster than watching a video.

     

     

     

  • Would love a good PDF manual 

    Most video tutorials suck for numerous reasons and are a pita when it comes to finding specific info

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