Daz Studio 5 development update

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,272
    edited July 2021

    fred9803 said:

     Imagine being able to just burn up 250,000.00 USD for a 90 minute flight adventure...

    Edit:....and it is not really space. Yeah, watched Neil Degrasse Tyson say it is sub orbital and that they probably can't even see the Earth's curvature.

     

    Well there are plenty of people who paid $3000 + for an Rtx 3090. At least their claim to fame was supported by something concrete in their rig and not some billionaire's wet dream of historic fame based on a falshood. Space flight is serious business, the preserve of who have undergone years of traning, the hard yards, earnt their university degrees and not flash-in-the-pan bored entrepreneurs with too much money they don't know what to do with. I suppose science, space flight and celebrity is the ultimate reality show mix. Too bad the media go along with such high jinks.

    commenting on a Facebook video of that flight on Australian Broadcasting Commission's page landed me in a load of strife! 

    I said "oh look a rich boi with a toy"

    some person replied to me calling me a Karen then spammed my page with some sort of bot script putting anger emojis on all my status updates working their way down through 5 days of posts in seconds before I could block them, my notifications were popping up madly.

    Damn it was difficult to report it to Facebook for harassment too, they didn't act on it, his page still up looking on Duckduckgo not signed in.

    My comment was tame compared to most others.

    Those billionaires certainly have their dedicated fan bois.

     

    amyway this is totally derailing the thread blush

    move along wink

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Panzer EmeraldPanzer Emerald Posts: 727
    edited July 2021

    PerttiA said:

    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    This has become another rants thread, and OS supremacy thread, unfortunately. 

    Yeah... Again, when someone thinks owning or using something newer or more expensive than the others have, makes them somehow "better", they have an uncontrollable urge to start bashing others... Doesn't actually prove anything about their capabilities with that something they are promoting, and unfortunately the same applies to even support personel nowadays.

    Eeee'yup. Some people don't realize that the people whose OS of choice they are bashing are likely the same people who help keep the lights on at DS HQ and for the PAs via their substantial number of purchases, too. :/

    We all have our own operating systems of choice for reasons that are our own. I have a Windows gaming laptop solely to play Final Fantasy 14, and I use Apple devices for everything else. At the end of the day, whether you're W7, W10, Mac, Linux, etc, we're all in this together. 

    (Although you do have to appreciate the sheer irony of W11 looking like a real-life version of the 'You can copy my homework, but not too closely' meme with how initial leaks show a macOS-esque layout, haha)

    Post edited by Panzer Emerald on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    does it handle the new poser joints?

    rhe poser Star original figure joints don't work in carrara.

    does Miki 3 work in DS?

    do pmd work?

    star.JPG
    972 x 602 - 114K
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,710
    I regard full Poser interoperability as a 'Would be Really Nice' feature, without it being a necessary requirement at all. My last Poser usage was at P4, so it doesn't feature high in my list of desires, but I do regard bi-directional file transfer as a way of making best use of the best features in each program. And being able to use CAD formats would extend the range of available modellers to ones designed for mechanical design. That would speed up modelling of inorganic background things, too.
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212

    Yes but Poser support would be nice just the same.  Allot of folks that build stuff for both platforms will often use DAZ Studio to set things up and the export as props or CR2's to Poser for refinements and then to their desired store.  I am always on the look out for products here at the DAZ store that works in both programs.  It's a shame that DAZ decided not to build a proper bridge for Poser like they did for just about every other program.  Really a sad shame.  

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    RAMWolff said:

    Yes but Poser support would be nice just the same.  Allot of folks that build stuff for both platforms will often use DAZ Studio to set things up and the export as props or CR2's to Poser for refinements and then to their desired store.  I am always on the look out for products here at the DAZ store that works in both programs.  It's a shame that DAZ decided not to build a proper bridge for Poser like they did for just about every other program.  Really a sad shame.  

    Totally aree with you on this one, a proper Poser bridge would be awesome

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,105

    From what I read on Rendo quite some time ago (years now) The guy that took over Poser was less than cooperative with Daz in favor of there own figures and stuff and they wouldn't be supporting Daz figures anymore. Which is why we stopped supporting Poser. We do however do provide all the obj's to the pack so at least Poser users have somewhere to start from to get them to work.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 1,642

    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    CypherFOX said:

    Personally, I just want to know if dForce will work again on Catalina and Big Sur with DS5.  I'm worried it won't because it uses a newer version of OpenCL (even for CPU calculations) that isn't supported on the Mac OS's anymore.

    --  Morgan

    Is there something I am missing about dForce and Catalina? I just simmed something fine with it.

    It hasn't worked for me for months.  I've tried some of the suggestions from the thread @Montecristo links, in the past, and they didn't work.  I should try again, but it seemed like there was an OpenCL compatability issue between macOS 10.15.7 and DAZ Studio 4.15.0.2 (and/or 4.15.0.14).  I tried all the different targets, and none of them worked.  I know I tried rebooting and starting fresh, but it didn't seem to help.

    --  Morgan

    Hmmm, it worked fine for me under macOS 10.15.3 last night. Good to know. Thanks

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,195

    frank0314 said:

    From what I read on Rendo quite some time ago (years now) The guy that took over Poser was less than cooperative with Daz in favor of there own figures and stuff and they wouldn't be supporting Daz figures anymore. Which is why we stopped supporting Poser. We do however do provide all the obj's to the pack so at least Poser users have somewhere to start from to get them to work.

    I am hoping that now that company that owns Renderosity owns Poser there might be some cooperation in that area again. I only switched over to Studio because of the lack of character support.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,710

    As I said, Poser is a 'Would be Nice' feature.

    Where it would be incredibly useful for quick and efficient prop conversion is the reading of Step (.stp) files, as that would open the whole of mechanical design software to feed props into DS (or posed figures into mechanical design software). It would also open up the power of DS to providing high-quality advertising and marketing images for companies. Where I work, we are very backward with our marketing, but all the directors are now convinced that rendered marketing images are a 'good thing'. I wrote an STL to OBJ translator to do a form of conversion to DS, and that now leads to me to a rather more intimate experience with marketing than I want...

    If we could then do the illustrated handbook images with figures posed doing the actions, that would be a step change improvement for us and many similar companies.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    Panzer Emerald said:

    PerttiA said:

    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    This has become another rants thread, and OS supremacy thread, unfortunately. 

    Yeah... Again, when someone thinks owning or using something newer or more expensive than the others have, makes them somehow "better", they have an uncontrollable urge to start bashing others... Doesn't actually prove anything about their capabilities with that something they are promoting, and unfortunately the same applies to even support personel nowadays.

    Eeee'yup. Some people don't realize that the people whose OS of choice they are bashing are likely the same people who help keep the lights on at DS HQ and for the PAs via their substantial number of purchases, too. :/

    We all have our own operating systems of choice for reasons that are our own. I have a Windows gaming laptop solely to play Final Fantasy 14, and I use Apple devices for everything else. At the end of the day, whether you're W7, W10, Mac, Linux, etc, we're all in this together. 

    (Although you do have to appreciate the sheer irony of W11 looking like a real-life version of the 'You can copy my homework, but not too closely' meme with how initial leaks show a macOS-esque layout, haha)

    Thank you very much for these comments. In part, it recalls the old joke about the best R&D department MS has: it's Apple.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    there is always Luxrender and Reality is now OpenSource

    I used both, but the Luxrenders were pretty slow on a Macintosh.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    wsterdan said:

    algovincian said:

    I personally doubt that DAZ is seeing the number of Mac users on the rise, but like you say, we don't have access to the numbers.

    That's great that you're excited about Apple silicone. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes before any of them have enough memory to do any heavy lifting. The unified memory architecture presents some major challenges given how Iray functions, and I'm personally not holding my breath for NVIDIA to write any M1 specific code.

    - Greg

     Recent worldwide statitstics show Mac uses in very close numbers with Windows 7 users (both quite small compared to Windows 10). What will happen, though, is that Mac uses are going up and Windows 7 users are going down (dropping by almost half between 2019 and 2020). Now, that also most likely means that Windows 10 users probobably went up by the same number that Windows 7 went down... they had to go somewhere, and any that jumped to Linux or Mac are probalby blips in the stats.

    I very, very much doubt there'll ever be an m1/2/x version of a Mac chip that will see its GPUs used by iRay in any significant way (not that it's impossible); if you want fast iRay, get a Windows machine... or rather an NVidea machiine. That's what I'd do.

    I'm not sure if we'll see "heavy lifting" Apple Silicon this year or next, but probably next year at the latest. One good thing about the Apple Silicon is that it's evolution isn't shackled to Intel's.

    As kyoto kid points out Pro Render could be an option, but Octane already runs and uses the m1's GPUs, as well as the Redshift rendering engine. I'd love to see Cycles or Evee added to D|S, but I have my doubts it will. Personally, I'm in love with Filament. It's what I need.

    As you point out, it's still very early days for the m1. Anyone thinking it's going to outperform a high-end graphic card wtih scad of RAM and/or VRAM is fooling themselves, but it's important to remember that the M1 is also the cheapest, lowest-powered Apple Silcon.chip. Anyone racing to compare their high-end video card against the lowest-end, slowest Apple Silicon chip should remember that.

    in the meantiem, m1 chips using Rosetta2 have been running faster than their equivalewnt Intel Macs running Maya, C4D, Poser and Blender (some starting in November) which means they'll probably see even better non-GPU preformance down the road... and the next version of chips or the ones after that version will only get better.

    I was going to wait to buy an m1 iMac until next year or the year after, but with a chance to test the pre-beta in a month or so (which is almost how long I'd have for the iMac) I'm probably going to order one this week.

    -- Walt Sterdan

    @wsterdan: Oh, please let us know how that goes. You could even post that info in the Mac Forum: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16599/the-mac-faq#latest

     

  • I've one of the first gen M1 Mac Minis and it's a pretty decent runner when it comes to intensive software: Blender, which iirc is running via Rosetta 2 (I think M1 support was meant for 2.93 release, I'm not sure), is pretty slick and moves like grease lightning. Makes me wonder how fast DS would be even if it was running on macOS solely through the power of Rosetta 2. Guess I'll find out later this month/next month!

    Again, for all my grouchiness and surly disposition on a lot of things, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong and give credit where it's due. Especially in the case of DS on Mac. I hope this trend of being open with the userbase continues. 

    And I second the notion for a decent Poser bridge later on down the line, too. The two softwares have prety much diverged in two different directions and have their own niches to fill. I wouldn't mind seeing some olive branch extending (while it was Smith-Micro who told Daz to pound sand back in the day, at least putting an offer of working on a bridge together would make for good optics on Rendo's side of things), since in the long run it'd lead to a healthy market for both programs... but maybe I'm being too optimistic there, lmao

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,083

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    there is always Luxrender and Reality is now OpenSource

    ...true, but it is even more glacial than Iray is on the CPU.  I remember render times mesured in days, not just hours.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    Panzer Emerald said:

    I've one of the first gen M1 Mac Minis and it's a pretty decent runner when it comes to intensive software: Blender, which iirc is running via Rosetta 2 (I think M1 support was meant for 2.93 release, I'm not sure), is pretty slick and moves like grease lightning. Makes me wonder how fast DS would be even if it was running on macOS solely through the power of Rosetta 2. Guess I'll find out later this month/next month!

    Again, for all my grouchiness and surly disposition on a lot of things, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong and give credit where it's due. Especially in the case of DS on Mac. I hope this trend of being open with the userbase continues. 

    And I second the notion for a decent Poser bridge later on down the line, too. The two softwares have prety much diverged in two different directions and have their own niches to fill. I wouldn't mind seeing some olive branch extending (while it was Smith-Micro who told Daz to pound sand back in the day, at least putting an offer of working on a bridge together would make for good optics on Rendo's side of things), since in the long run it'd lead to a healthy market for both programs... but maybe I'm being too optimistic there, lmao

    @ Panzer Emerald: I hope you will let us know your impressions, also. Again, you could post in the Mac  FAQ: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16599/the-mac-faq#latest

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,213

    kyoto kid said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    there is always Luxrender and Reality is now OpenSource

    ...true, but it is even more glacial than Iray is on the CPU.  I remember render times mesured in days, not just hours.

    +1

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 569
    edited July 2021

    Though Gen 8.1 is lovely, a proper next gen figure coupled with a new DAZ would be about as exciting as it gets!

    Post edited by Visuimag on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212

    I would bet that Genesis 9 will be released around the same time.  Hence the 8.1 rather than 9.  Of course DS5 will need to be beta tested, get scripts and plugins updated for the new version to work with all the new libraries ... yadda yadda yadda ...

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    kyoto kid said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    there is always Luxrender and Reality is now OpenSource

    ...true, but it is even more glacial than Iray is on the CPU.  I remember render times mesured in days, not just hours.

    I had my grumbles about Luxrender (well, more about Reality, actually) but I have to say that for the years I used my iMac Reality/Lux was my route to realism. I much preferred waiting for it than trying to get 3Delight to look realistic. I didn't like having to spend hours tweaking materials in Reality even though it was claimed to be an automatic conversion (that was the main source of my grumbles) but I found the render times acceptable under the circumstances. I used every trick I could find including sharing the render with a Linux computer connected over ethernet and the times, for me, were better than IRay on CPU. Luxrender had other advatages like running in the background while I worked on the next scene (which bought me some of the time back) and being able to tweak settings as it rendered and being able to stop a render and start again from where I left off. 

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    how much does DAZ want to add general rigging to carrara?

    Misty shakes her piggy bank at DAZ

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    ...the new version of lux is fast. I don't know if there's any way to get to it from DS other than blender though.
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,235

    Please do bear in mind that this is a thread about Daz Studio 5, rather than other applications.

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 569

    RAMWolff said:

    I would bet that Genesis 9 will be released around the same time.  Hence the 8.1 rather than 9.  Of course DS5 will need to be beta tested, get scripts and plugins updated for the new version to work with all the new libraries ... yadda yadda yadda ...

    Yup, I'm thinking the same!

  • notiuswebnotiusweb Posts: 110

    There is no mention of any new figure base or function set.  This is probably just a "relevancy" update, mostly in name only, to stay current with other industry releases (ie Unreal Engine "5", Daz "5"). 

    They did it before with Genesis 3 to 8, mostly a name-only update.  Nothing wrong with this at all, but not ground-breaking either.  The exciting part almost is them saying plugins may no longer work, maybe signaling major structural upgrade as code & boot-dependencies change.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,083
    edited July 2021

    ...indeed after the update to 3.0/3.0 Advanced we were still working with Gen4 characters. 3.0 Advanced ushered in the first 64 bit version of Daz along with expanded tools and the integration of UberEnvironment which was more the game changer.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    notiusweb said:

    There is no mention of any new figure base or function set.  This is probably just a "relevancy" update, mostly in name only, to stay current with other industry releases (ie Unreal Engine "5", Daz "5"). 

    They did it before with Genesis 3 to 8, mostly a name-only update.  Nothing wrong with this at all, but not ground-breaking either.  The exciting part almost is them saying plugins may no longer work, maybe signaling major structural upgrade as code & boot-dependencies change.

     I mean its pretty been pretty well known for a while that in order to get it working in the newest mac os DS would need to switch from QT4 which is basically the entire underlying structure of the software - thats what this is, so not so much "in name only"

  • notiuswebnotiusweb Posts: 110
    edited July 2021

    j cade said:

    notiusweb said:

    There is no mention of any new figure base or function set.  This is probably just a "relevancy" update, mostly in name only, to stay current with other industry releases (ie Unreal Engine "5", Daz "5"). 

    They did it before with Genesis 3 to 8, mostly a name-only update.  Nothing wrong with this at all, but not ground-breaking either.  The exciting part almost is them saying plugins may no longer work, maybe signaling major structural upgrade as code & boot-dependencies change.

     I mean its pretty been pretty well known for a while that in order to get it working in the newest mac os DS would need to switch from QT4 which is basically the entire underlying structure of the software - thats what this is, so not so much "in name only"

    We are only speculating on extent to an update to the underlying structure of the software.  It is not even ready, it is only in development, promising that it will work on Macs at this point    And if you have on Windows, it's not really meaningful to you anyway.

    Thus the timing of this announcement reveals the relavancy of the name, because even with a systematic re-write to allow Daz to work on Macs, without a new figure or announced feature-set update, the already-existing user won't see a difference. 

    So the name here is what is most relevant....Daz needs the "5.0" now to markedetly stay relevant with Unreal Engine "5.0".  Daz indeed has an official plugin sending characters to UE4, so the linkage already exists, and UE"5" will be linked to this Daz"5".

    I dare say we would have UE5 to thank for this update.  And it's not just Daz that is making moves in response, it's the whole industry.  Meta Human + UE5 abruptly woke them all from their slumber like a screaching fire alarm.

    Post edited by notiusweb on
  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,349

    notiusweb said:

    j cade said:

    notiusweb said:

    There is no mention of any new figure base or function set.  This is probably just a "relevancy" update, mostly in name only, to stay current with other industry releases (ie Unreal Engine "5", Daz "5"). 

    They did it before with Genesis 3 to 8, mostly a name-only update.  Nothing wrong with this at all, but not ground-breaking either.  The exciting part almost is them saying plugins may no longer work, maybe signaling major structural upgrade as code & boot-dependencies change.

     I mean its pretty been pretty well known for a while that in order to get it working in the newest mac os DS would need to switch from QT4 which is basically the entire underlying structure of the software - thats what this is, so not so much "in name only"

    We are only speculating on extent to an update to the underlying structure of the software.  It is not even ready, it is only in development, promising that it will work on Macs at this point    And if you have on Windows, it's not really meaningful to you anyway.

    Thus the timing of this announcement reveals the relavancy of the name, because even with a systematic re-write to allow Daz to work on Macs, without a new figure or announced feature-set update, the already-existing user won't see a difference. 

    So the name here is what is most relevant....Daz needs the "5.0" now to markedetly stay relevant with Unreal Engine "5.0".  Daz indeed has an official plugin sending characters to UE4, so the linkage already exists, and UE"5" will be linked to this Daz"5".

    I dare say we would have UE5 to thank for this update.  And it's not just Daz that is making moves in response, it's the whole industry.  Meta Human + UE5 abruptly woke them all from their slumber like a screaching fire alarm.

    No. It's being named "5" becasue it's the next number after "4" and it's a major stuctural rewrite. It has absolutely nothihg to do with "UE"'s numbering.

    It is not speculation as to how major an undertaking this is, DAZ has been telling us for years that the next version, DAZ Studio 5, would be a complete overhaul and that many things would break, and were telling us this long before Big Sur was announced, let alone released. We were told how huge a change version 5 was going to be long before there was a UE5.

    -- Walt Sterdan 

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    wsterdan said:

    notiusweb said:

    j cade said:

    notiusweb said:

    There is no mention of any new figure base or function set.  This is probably just a "relevancy" update, mostly in name only, to stay current with other industry releases (ie Unreal Engine "5", Daz "5"). 

    They did it before with Genesis 3 to 8, mostly a name-only update.  Nothing wrong with this at all, but not ground-breaking either.  The exciting part almost is them saying plugins may no longer work, maybe signaling major structural upgrade as code & boot-dependencies change.

     I mean its pretty been pretty well known for a while that in order to get it working in the newest mac os DS would need to switch from QT4 which is basically the entire underlying structure of the software - thats what this is, so not so much "in name only"

    We are only speculating on extent to an update to the underlying structure of the software.  It is not even ready, it is only in development, promising that it will work on Macs at this point    And if you have on Windows, it's not really meaningful to you anyway.

    Thus the timing of this announcement reveals the relavancy of the name, because even with a systematic re-write to allow Daz to work on Macs, without a new figure or announced feature-set update, the already-existing user won't see a difference. 

    So the name here is what is most relevant....Daz needs the "5.0" now to markedetly stay relevant with Unreal Engine "5.0".  Daz indeed has an official plugin sending characters to UE4, so the linkage already exists, and UE"5" will be linked to this Daz"5".

    I dare say we would have UE5 to thank for this update.  And it's not just Daz that is making moves in response, it's the whole industry.  Meta Human + UE5 abruptly woke them all from their slumber like a screaching fire alarm.

    No. It's being named "5" becasue it's the next number after "4" and it's a major stuctural rewrite. It has absolutely nothihg to do with "UE"'s numbering.

    It is not speculation as to how major an undertaking this is, DAZ has been telling us for years that the next version, DAZ Studio 5, would be a complete overhaul and that many things would break, and were telling us this long before Big Sur was announced, let alone released. We were told how huge a change version 5 was going to be long before there was a UE5.

    -- Walt Sterdan 

    Exactly... And looking back, I would estimate that they have been working on it for some 5-6 years already.

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