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Agreed.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5995057/#Comment_5995057
So Daz just posted this video about Daz's new Face Rig, and it seems to be talking about this product.
Hmm...maybe I'm missing something, but the expressions still seem pretty "wooden" and how is it different than PowerPose?
Laurie
see Sevrin beat me to it
Ooooooooo! Kewl! Thanks Servin, and thank Rob for doing the video so quickly!
Wait ... According to that video, you need to create a new base directory for just one product? Why? Doesn't it install into your already-defined Studio base directory normally?
I think so! I'd like to work with it more before unequivocally recommending it, but I've always had trouble getting Daz character expressions to have a personality. This is nothing against the expression creators, it just takes some tweaking to make a one-size-fits-all expression look like an individual person's unique face movements. If you find yourself struggling to get much traction with PowerPose this would probably be really handy, since it allows for what feels like a much lighter touch. If you dial in a really extreme expression at a super low percentage, you could probably use this to gently nudge it into liveliness without going too far overboard and add super detailed asymmetry.
The way it handles lip bites and frowns also seems a little less bizarre. The frown expression on the promo images, while cartoony, doesn't sit low on the face the way expression pack frowns tend to do and looks less like a caricature of sadness. I don't usually do extreme frowns on characters so I'm not sure if that's just how the face muscles usually work or if it's an aesthetic choice, but it always makes the character look extremely different to me and I've never seen anyone's face literally fall like that in real life.
Funny enough, the character I'll find this most useful for is the Joker.
I use Unique Smiles 20 for his signature grin, but I end up moving between 3-4 products to nail his full range of expressions and fighting conflicts between them. When I'm using elasticity morphs I have to keep AFE dialed to less than 50% or else his eye sockets start clipping through his eyes (this is exactly as horrific as it sounds), and it's really hard to make him look right at less than 100% of that overall expression.
It installed normally for me, I didn't have to do anything special.
Its primary purpose is to create dynamic face movements for animation, so the included expressions are like transition points that only appear for a fraction of a second. If you're satisfied with the results you get from PowerPose and you're doing static renders, this probably isn't any kind of game changer. If you're doing animation this appears to be closer to industry-standard rigging and face movement.
Awesome, definitely gonna grab it! It looks like they got the discounts sorted out as well, so it ends up being $13.45 $13.95 (plus a couple of freebies for my G2 clan). Certainly reasonable if it does everything that it seems like it will. Being able to manually tweak problem areas of existing expressions and also add some asymmetry will be HUGE for me, since I invariably miss the advantage of the asymmetry morphs that are available exclusively for female figures, it seems. I love that you mentioned it has a lighter touch than PowerPose, which is definitely what I'm looking for -- a lighter touch and more granular control over some regions. It sounds like this may be just what I need; I'm unapologetic DA trash and have really wanted to do some renders of my Warden, but he's very expressive and I've never been able to get him to look properly alive so between that and the hardware, things have just stagnated.
Great to hear that it handles frowns well, also. I've got some ideas I've been wanting to try and somehow every frown that I try to dial in more lightly ends up looking wooden. Content creators are working with limitations and I don't blame them at all for the expressions I've bought not working out, you can only do so much. My (limited) understanding is that there were changes with G8 that made avoiding a variety of problems more difficult, and then we go and throw universal expressions (already tough enough for a base figure) on custom characters with a bunch of morphs. I'm really looking forward to getting to put their hard work to use!
I love that you're going to be using it to render the Joker and I'm going to be using it to de-Jokerify expressions for other characters, though! His look is so iconic that it ends up looking completely out of place to me on pretty much anyone but him, at least to me, and he makes that creepy factor work waaaaay better than my elves do. I love the renders you've done of him that I've seen and I can't wait for what you come up with once you're not having to fight so much for cooperation between all those products.
I love this description. Thanks to it and the video that eventually was posted on Youtube, I'm going to buy it. (I love Mesh Grabber, but it's tricky for the face!)
I think these poses are easier from the video than Power Poser and less wooden than Power Pose. There is still a disconnect though between the wrinkling of the face in a pose with these poses (and power pose too) that I think only autoface can remedy (and it only usually does but not always does).
So is this just a different way to control the facial morphs/poses G8 already has, or does this product new morphs/poses?
Thank you for the video, it helped show what this does better than the product page.
Cora, did you buy multiple producs to get it down to that price? I can't seem to bring it that low and I'm a PC+ member.
I had to buy two debuts, yeah. Fortunately there was a second one that I was interested in, particularly once the free DOs were factored in as well.
It was supposed to be $13.95 in that post, though, and not the $13.45 I initially wrote, so I wouldn't worry about not being able to get it down the extra $0.50 because they never actually existed lol. I'm just extra bad at typing and number differentiation today, sorry for any confusion there.
Much like my tool, Power Pose is a graphical user interface which moves joints around by just clicking and dragging an icon. The Power Pose just moves the facial joints around on the Genesis figure. The Face Controls tool applies FACS expressions to the face.
The way you use the Face Controls tool is by clicking on a controller (circle or arrow) then move it around with the Universal Tool. The tool uses Genesis 3 and 8's facial armature to recreate all FACS movement, which means it uses no morphs, which means it's compatible with any expression pack. With the help of the tool you can either create your own expressions or just tweak already existing expressions from other vendors.
Here is a demonstration video from a while back:
There are around 60 controls but once you familiarize yourself with them you'll be able to recreate any facial expression you desire.
That video is great. Can re-sculpt a face in realtime. So if an expression pulls part of face in a way you don't like, this tool will let you quickly adjust the face so you like look better. That means you don't need a near perfect face topology to handle a wide range of expressions. Or should I say, it makes it less of an issue by quite a bit in most cases.
This and springs both went in my cart instant once saw what they can do.
How are FACS expressions different from other expressions, apart from being exaggerated?
FACS stands for Facial Action Coding System which is a systematization of the movements the human face can make. It was developed in the late 70s by Paul Ekman. We already knew at the time all the facial muscles we possesed so theoretically a facial expression is a combination of contracting muscles. The issue was later on discovered to be more complex because we can't control a facial muscle independently of other facial muscles.
We now know that human facial movement is comprised of a combination of specific smaller movements. These movemnts were dubbed "Facial Actions" and several muscles work in tandem to create a facial action. There are around 40-50 (depending how you count) facial actions all humans from around the Globe can perform. These facial actions (colloquially called "FACS") are the building blocks of all human expression. Each control point of the Genesis Face Controls tool represents one of these FACS. Move enough of them around and you'll have a facial expression.
An example of FACS would be raising an eyebrow or blinking. They're not characteristically exaggerated unless the user decides to make them so.
I was using the wording "FACS expression" to mean just "FACS" but not everyone is familiar with the term so I wanted to make it clear it had something to do with the face.
Looks interesting, but doesn't do a dang thing for me. The tool moves the whole head. Not sure what I'm doing wrong but I think the installation instructions need to be more clear and detailed.
I’m interested in this product, but it has one of the most confusing descriptions I think I’ve ever seen for a product. And the video they released this evening made me almost pass it up completely because it was all about using it with Maya. The copywriting on this is abysmal. I was afraid it was just me, but reading the comments on here, someone really missed he mark here.
J
You might be clicking and dragging on the controls. Make sure you have the Universal Tool selected, click on one of the arrows, the translate it in the direction it is pointing at.
The Genesis Face Controls does not work with Maya. The video was about a Dynamixyz to Daz pipeline. Dynamixyz is a professional facial motion capture software, the best out there which is also commercially available. It has an astronomical pricetag but they do offer a one month free trial.
Dynamixyz requires Maya in order to run (or 3dsmax, or C4D). Personally I don't like Maya one bit but the Dynamixyz workflow requires it so there's no avoiding it... yet. I'm hoping Dynamixyz will take notice of the Face Controls tool for Genesis and make a bridge specific for Daz Studio.
I just picked this up, can't wait to play around with it this weekend after I finish up my Movember animated film submission (four more shots to render and then sound design!). This looks to be basically what I've been wishing for in terms of a facial rig after using auto rig pro in Blender and loving how that rig was able to create facial movements.
so it's just like powerpose but with more control? and it doesn't make expressions more realistic since they are only using the existing morphs. wrinkles and stuff are better in AFE.
Thank you so much, I'm really happy to hear that! I'd love to see the results on your Warden. :D
I've been playing around with this nonstop for the past three hours and I think you may have gotten me into animation. Thank you, seriously, this is going to save me so much time.
Here's how it differs from PowerPose:
It's not really trying to compete with AFE, and it doesn't intend to add wrinkles or face detail. It's a method for animating face movements in DS that's closer to standard 3D animation techniques. I've been using it with AFE and pose dials from other sets, and it plays really well with them so far.
Well the fact that they are FACIAL expressions was a BIG TIPOFF that they have to do with the face, and not the feet or hands. I'm pretty sure most of us figured that out. There are already a gajillion facial expression packs available. For the human face. Adding the "FACS" thing just seems pretentious unnecessary.
The tool is partially compatible with AFE and its enhanced morphs. Bone movement will trigger at least some of the extra detail provided with AFE (just try loading a normal expression and then activate AFE, the results are usually not pretty, far too cartoonish, but you can see the enhancements being activated), and having the possibility of moving the bones with the universal tool provides not only a much better chance of undoing and zeroing anything you don't like at any time (just set translations to zero) than powerpose, but it is much easier to achieve nuances. Also, each node is a FACS, not a Genesis 8 facial bone, which means realistic expressions are much easier to create, as it is designed to mimic real-life facial movement.
Although if you are already used to working with AFE, it's important to note that certain enhanced movements will still need to be activated via its dedicated powerpose, the nose being particularly notorious.
Each node is not a FACS. Nor is a FACS an expression or a "facial actions". Not everything is a FACS. FACS is an acronym that stands for Facial Action Coding System. And FACS expressions are just expressions. There's no magic or special science to them.
They should match this summary. Well, at least as much as the amount of geometry in Genesis 8 allows.
https://imotions.com/blog/facial-action-coding-system/
I misspoke, what I meant to say is that each node in the new rig corresponds to a Facial Action (from the FACS framework) which does mean it is easier to create something realistic than it would be by just manipulating G8 facial bones one by one. At least, that is my experience, and presumably one of the goals of the product (otherwise, why use FACS at all?). Also, there a couple extra nodes that do not directly correspond to a Facial Action, but are added for convenience.