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The Blu ray player I pointed you to is USB 2, that's more than fast enough for blue ray play back). But you can find USB 3 and likely type c and thunderbolt. ones. Definitely you'll be far better off buying a larger HDD, or a couple, and getting rid of all those little ones that are that old.
Any new motherboard will have at least one type c on the rear and plenty of USB 3.
Why not run all of those OSes but one in a VM?
I'm spending so much time trying to choose a case, I've barely had a chance to study the actual system! What a day.
This article says blower cards tend to get hotter, but if you don't have the best air flow, they're the better choice. If you have really good air flow, open air coolers perform better than blowers.
Which is why the Corsair Series Air 540 cube-shaped case still interests me. There is nothing to block the airflow between the front fans and the rear. The PSU is in a different compartment, so there should be less heat around the MB.
The CoolerMaster H500P Mesh or Cooler Master H500 cases are mid towers. If I don't try to make a multi-use system out of it, then kenshaw is correct, this could be a good choice. However, there are complaints about lack of space in the bottom between the PSU cover and the "riser cable" at the bottom of the MB. I don't need a vertical GPU, and I can't tell from the images if that lack of space would impead, or at least, bother me.
I would really prefer more room than I need so the setup process can be as easy as possible, and the system as airy as possible. The CoolerMaster cases seem cramped. Which bends me back towards the Corsair above.
Yes to all of that, I began to change my attitudes last night.
I'm clearing space in the bedroom for the new system where I can put up a larger desk. Then I'll keep the current machine where it is, overhaul it to some extent, & use it for non-DS activities. Many issues solved this way.
I looked deeper into the Cooler Master cases today. As I mentioned above, it's hard to judge between them and the Corsair. The issue about 3.5" and 5.25" external drives is moot now, but space is important. I have cables curled around in this current case like brambles. Gotta be smarter this time.
Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions! I couldn't have gotten anywhere near this far without you!
This is my tentative rough estimate for a system so far (pending deeper study):
MB: ASRock X570 Pro4 ~ $210
or: Asus TUF Gaming X570-PLUS ~ $165
CPU:
Ryzen 7 3700X ~$319 [65 watts vs most being 105W!]
RAM:
CORSAIR Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 ~ $148
GPU x 2: (open-air, not blower)
NVIDIA - GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Founders Edition: $1200 ea @BestBuy
*Was planning on an EVGA. All my previous are. But newegg reviews are too few. BestBuy has 126 reviews for this one, with 87 being 5 star. Don't know how reliable they are, though.
PSU:
Corsair HX1000 - 1000W 80 PLUS Platinum fully modular: $205
TOTAL: Above: ~ $3282 | With eg Corsair case: ~$3437
Now I'm sure I'm senile. I mean, I'm not even an artist!
I see you've changed your mind about open-air cards vs blowers... probaly a sound choise. Those two 2880ti cards will keep you very happy regardless of what NIVIAD comes out next. Cheers!
I would not buy the Nvidia cards. Those coolers are bottom of the barrel.
Supply on 2080ti's seems to be pretty short, that could be a point in favor of Ampere coming out soon actually. I'd look at this
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1438195-REG/asus_rog_strix_rtx2080ti_o11g_rog_strix_geforce_rtx.html
Or this
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gigabyte-xtreme-11g-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-11gb-gddr6-pci-express-3-0-graphics-card-black-blue-gray-orange/6409165.p?acampID=0&cmp=RMX&loc=PCPartPicker&ref=198&refdomain=pcpartpicker.com&skuId=6409165
The Corsair cube case is 16.34" x 13.07" x 18.03" while the H500P mesh is 21.30" x 9.50" x 21.40".
So while the cube seems bigger it really only is in one dimension and not that substantially. Ultimately as someone who builds a lot of PC's I don't think it will make that much difference. I'd got wioth the case with the CM case as it has better dimensions for building and more airflow.
Yeh, I'd personally go for the MSI Gaming Trio 2080ti.
Good point. Two 2080 Ti's is already beyond what I honestly need. But they're there, I'm here, time to bring home some real fun.
Oh, first, regarding the size of the two cases - It's not so much the overall sizes. It's how it looks like there's more space under the MB. Without a PSU there, it looks far more roomy, in that area. I haven't studied how the cards have to be placed on the MB yet. I just know I would like them as far apart as possible. If the lower one is down there near the bottom edge, I'd like it to have space below it. Plus, it's nice not to have a hot PSU sitting there.
Regarding your two suggested GPUs, thanks!:
I'll look at those as soon as I can.
The Gigabyte is sold out & the ASUS is on back order. The Gigabyte has only 1 review and it's 1 star. I'll check reviews on other sites.
So you prefer cards with 3 fans...
I'll have the system in my bedroom. Maybe I'll do overnight renders so the fans can help drone me to sleep.
If there were any hope of the 30xx's being available and useable within 3 or 4 months, I'd wait and be better able to afford it. But life is short.
I read online that Nvidia has stopped manufacturing the 2080Ti, becase the Ampere generation is coming. Rumor or truth, I don't know. If your heart is set on them, don't wait too long.
Thanks. I was in the same place kicking myself for waiting too long for the 1080 Ti's, and it's taken this long to be ready to grab the 2080 Ti's. Probably shouldn't let that happen again. Tired of scrimping every dollar, anyway. Buy now, start eating again sooner :-)
Pssst. Don't tell anyone about this thread!
I try to be very careful with map sizes ,I'd suggest if you find a 4k map in one of my environments then it is needed,also we can never tell how any of our content will be used,so it's always best to provide higher res images which can be downscaled by the end user.
Good point Stonemason. It's better to start out wlith large textures because you can't go the other way. That script that reduces texture sizes is a godsend for those who have trouble fitting them to GPU. I use it often.
All good,I've never used that script but sounds like a good idea,
I was wondering though, doesn't Daz Studio do mip-mapping at rendertime anyway?, so a 4k map that's say a hundred meters from the camera would be downsized internally to a 1k map?, does Iray play along with that feature too?
And I do understand the frustration of massive textures,I recently got some figures that all had 16k textures!,and I all I need was something like 1k
3DL does but AFAIK Iray doesn't.
The case has nothing, or almost nothing, to do with the sopacing between the cards. The motherboard controls the spacing fo the slots. The PSU won't get that hot and if setup properly won't be an issue. It will draw air in from underneath and vent out the back. I'm running a 1080ti and 2070 in the config you want right now, in my bedroom and never hear them (my wife certainly would not appreciate noise or heat while sleeping or other night time "activities."
The two cards I pointed you two have 5 star reviews on PCPartpicker which is an amalgamation of lots of sites not just individual retailers. But if they're sold out I really doubt there are any quality 2080ti's out there at any decent prices.
I have two Zotac AMP Extreme 980TIs. They use to sit next to each other in my case. The primary card would always hit 83C and the fans you be going at almost 2400 RPM while the second card would barely reach 68C. Thankfully I screwed over the second PCI-E slot and had to move the second card down one slot. Now the primary card only hits 72C on the hottest days (before I got my air conditioner) and the fans, up to 2000 RPM. On average I often see it around 68-70 and fans are 1500-1800 RPM. I also have a large 200mm side fan that helps keep them cool.
Re: Case:
I was saying I'm not clear yet on how we determine which slots would allow both cards to function at full capacity. So if one can be near the bottom, then more space under the MB would be a good thing.
Re: PSU getting hot:
That was dumb of me, my current PSU never gets hot! My brain is a bit fried, though.
(I made a comparison image of the two cases, but don't see a link to my desktop, and I'm tired, so...)
Without the PSU there, the differences in height and depth are what, 2 to 3 inches? ...thinking...
I can go either way. Don't care about looks, but the Cooler Master is beautiful. But if there is nothing significant to make the Corsair a loser in comparison...
Hm, $180 vs $155. Some difference in cost. Maybe still, the winner is the Cooler Master.
Huh? The Cooler Master H500 ARGB is only $120! <pounding my head on the table>
Thanks kenshaw, also, for the two cards and their reviews. I'll review the reviews!
It's time to make decisions and start buying.
Thanks to all of you!! I hope my questions haven't frustrated anyone too much. It's fascinating to learn from you all! Give me some time to organize and order, and I'll let you know how things work out.
Stay safe!
-Ken
Keep in mind there are several models of the h500 case. They are slightly different sizes and one isn't mesh front but all plastic/glass. The expensive one is mesh front and larger (which I like as it is much easier to build in and has more room for wiring). Also the plain H500 is the cheapest and should come with a mesh front piece but is the smallest.
Thanks kenshaw! Appreciated!
To NotAn Artist, here is my H500P build. Lots of room for expansion using M2 & SSD storage.
System Specs: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, Gigabyte X570 Aorus PRO WIFI , EVGA GTX 1070 GAMING, 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR-4 3200 memory, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD, 2 Western Digital Blue WD20EZRZ 2TB HDDs in Raid 1, EVGA Supernova 1200 P2 PSU, CoolerMaster H500P Mesh Wihte case, Samsung SyncMaster P2370 Monitor @ 1080p, Windows 10 Professional 64
As you can see in the image of my build, the case has a place to mount a video card vertically to show off the front of the card using a felexible PCIE 16X riser. However if you do that, to get clearance for the riser and card PCIe connection, you will need to move the SSD hard drive holders to the places provided on the back side of the mnothervoard tray. If yo8u use this case, you will need to get an enclosure for your DVD drive and since you mentioned both SATA and IDFE hard drives, I would pick up an USB 3.0 SATA/IDE hard drive dock to access all of your drives. HTH
Don't vertically mount air cooled graphics cards. You can see there just isn't enough clearance between the card and the side panel to get enough air.
Thank you, billyben, for calling my attention to this. That $400 card would put me even further beyond my originally naive budget, but the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra is a hundred less, so I'm looking at it. Still need to compare this more closely with the ASRock X570 Pro4, for $170.
The Aorus Ultra has 6 fan headers, counting the CPU's. It also has integrated graphics, which would hopefully allow both the GPUs to be used only for renders.
**But I'm confused by this statement about the onboard video:
"Note: For 2nd Generation AMD Ryzen with Radeon Vega Graphics processors / AMD Ryzen with Radeon Vega Graphics processors only."
Is that actually saying it won't work with 3rd Generation Ryzens? What's the point, then??
And hey, turns out the ASRock says something similar about it's onboard video, but less informative: "Actual support may vary by CPU."
I've so much to learn. I'm so naive! So much more ignorant than the last time I did this. Last time was a breeze.
Thanks for your advice!
-Ken
P.S. - As long as I'm here ;-) Aren't the 2080Ti's rather heavy for just dangling sideways off the MB like that? I noticed in an image somewhere that there is a brace that can be placed on the floor of the case that reaches up and supports the forward end of the card. What if you have two cards? Just working thru my paranoia.
AM4 motherboards have video outputs not because they have built in video but because some AM4 APU's do. If you buy a non G chip just ignore it.
All motherboards tend to sag a bit. There have been all sorts of things done to try and prevent it. None really do much to stop it. I've heard of very rare instances of the slots being torn lose. Moderrn high end boards, like the ones you are considering, are build pretty well so don't worry about it.
All X570 chipset motherboards have video outputs but unless you get an AMD APU with Radeon Vega Graphics then no onboard video. Since AMD's on die graphics are Radeon they do not do Iray. Also the processors in AMD APUs seem to be a generation behind the current gen AMD CPUs. My Aorus Pro WiFi board was only $269.00 plus tax. at MicroCenter. Not sure what part of the world you are in but if you are in the US and close to a MicroCenter, check out their motherboard bundles. On the video card weights. As long as you ahve a good case and properly mount the card on the board and properly tighten the video card bracket to the case you shouldn't have an issue. If the card is really heavy, CoolerMaster has brackets to help hold the cards up. My case came with one but I did not need it.
I thought it was strange for a MB to have an onboard GPU! But I was tired and ready to believe. And I've never had an interest before in AMD CPUs. Until now I thought Apu was the guy on The Simpsons. And I can't find a definition for 'non G chip,' but if it's not relevant it's just more word clutter. Sorry, I think I'm still tired.
I'm not sure either, but it's called California. MicroCenter's about three hours of driving horror from here. A quick look at their online store only showed items for 'in-store pickup only.' Eg, a Ryzen 7, 3700X with Aorus Ultra for $540. Ran out of time, though, so I'll look again later. Thanks.
And thanks for pointing out that it's Cooler Master that has the bracket I thought I saw!
And BTW, here's the final straw that turned me away from the Corsair cube case:
It holds the GPU in place with what a reviewer described as a 'clamping' system that left 'an awful lot of looseness in the card.'
In his situation, the side door moved the card's power cable when it shut, which unseated the card enough that the machine didn't boot.
Too bad, two compartments seems a brilliant idea.
Have a good weekend.
Ryzen chips come in 3 flavors
(lower case is a number)
xxxx and xxxxX are just generic CPU's When xxxx and xxxxX have the same numbers it is generally best to buy the xxxx version as it is cheaper and the xxxxX is only very slightly faster.
xxxxG chips are called APU's, which means something I can never remember. What it really means is they have a GPU built in. This GPU is better than the GPU built in to almost all Intel CPU's. It is good enough to play very low end games. It is an AMD GPU so it won't work with iRay so for most purposes of DS it might as well not be there.
It does use whatever video output is built into the motherboard which is why AM4 motherboards have one or more.
On moving the PSU behind the motherboard tray there are good cases that do that. the Lian Li o11 does. But that is a lot of case to build in for someone who isn't an experienced builder. It comes with no fans at all so you'd have to buy and install all the fans. You'd have to install the fan behind the motherboard and run the cables through the backside of the tray. I'm not saying you couldn't but it is a $200ish case and would likely take twice or three times as long to build in.
https://www.lian-li.com/pc-o11-dynamic/
It is one of the best looking cases out there, I'll give it that.
Yeah, I've only built 2 systems, and the last was 2013. But back to the mid-90s I helped friends build and repair their systems. Mostly Pentiums and Celerons.
I was an xray tech and just too busy to fully learn the nuts and bolts of the computer world. In the years since, my time was devoted to my parents until their passing, my Mom just a couple of years ago. It got to the point where I had to retire early in 2011, but it was an honor to be there for them.
Yes, that lian-li looks great! But it's true, even if I wanted to give it a try, I don't need nor have time for the added stress. Time to deal with my own health.
Got a busy weekend ahead now (bad timing). I really appreciate everyone's insight and experience!
-Ken
While building a fairly generic PC is very easy. I do try to keep it easy for novices. I'd really lean toward a fairly standard case for you. It would likely save you from headaches you just don't need.
I'm not saying that if you want to try the o11 you shouldn't just that it would likely be harder.
For me it was my aunt. My mother died when I was 12 and she stepped in and looked after me and my younger brother when my father wouldn't. So when she got to the point where she couldn't take care of herself, and her own son wouldn't (great family I got), I took care of her for her last years. I did learn more about that side of my family than I ever would have otherwise and that was a rare privilege.
Do take care of your health. No point in having a great computer in your estate sale.
So very sorry! Rough for a kid to lose his Mom. Your aunt clearly did a good job raising you. My deepest respects to her.
OK, I know the path to take now, thanks to everyone here. Stay safe!
-Ken
Hi! This is the 'OP.' There's a change in plans. All's fine but some health issues are confirmed now which means it'd be foolish to spend too much on the build I was preparing for, not yet at least. (I mention this because I don't want people thinking I'm fickle and can't make up my mind about anything).
With the new 30xx's coming, this might be good timing. They could start appearing in September - which means by the end of the year(?) DS could be compatible with them.
But since the topic of this thread is cases, I'd like to mention a new case that has caught my eye.
BTW, I was unaware of all the Youtube case reviews out there! [I know, duh!]
There's one group, Gamers Nexus, and their reviewer, Steve Burke, who I feel is a real professional, no over-the-top acting as if he were hoping for a Hollywood talent scout to spot him... (Sorry, I usually don't like Youtube reviews).
Anyway, he's very thorough, and his comparison charts are fantastic. So I created one based on several of those charts: [See below]
I was sold on the CoolerMaster H500P Mesh as per kenshaw's suggestion, but there's a new case that caught my eye. The Phanteks P500A will be released soon this month. It looked pretty good in the Gamers Nexus review. Note: It's about $80 cheaper, too :)
I like the SilverStone cases with the 90 degree angled motherboards! But there doesn't seem to be any available, not that I could feel at ease with, at least. Oh well.
So that's where I'm at. A bit stuck but a bit wiser. Thanks again for all your help. Reviewing dozens of past posts on the subject was valuable, but the specific answers from you folks were priceless.
Cheers,
Ken
CASE REVIEW CHART [selected cases & temperatures]
Red = Best, Blue = 2nd Best, Purple = Worst & Even Worse
*Hope there are no mistakes! My vision is, um, highly variable.
Source: Gamers Nexus [Mostly their Cooler Master TD500 review, with several charts covering several cases]
The case is just coming out and the GN review seems solid. At $100 I'd consider it too. If you can get it go for it. $80 is $80.