Decided on two 2080 Ti's, But Problem Finding Case
NotAnArtist
Posts: 374
Hi! Last March I asked about building a system. Responders agreed that two 2080 Supers would be better than three 2060 Supers. But after reviewing tons more threads here, it's clear I need to reach higher.
I'm sick of buying or building things that are just sufficient. This will be my last build, for several reasons. I can't wait for the 30xx's, so it'll have be two 2080Ti's. I can almost afford it, and life is weird, so that's the plan.
There's a problem though with cases. External 5.25" bays barely exist in the newer, high-air-flow cases.
This will be multi-use, so I need two external bays for swapping hard drives with several different installed OS's and playing DVD/Blu-ray movies. My space is limited, so two large machines sitting here would not be possible.
So the otherwise-perfect CoolerMaster H500P Mesh is a no-go. But here's a case that may work out:
DIYPC Skyline-06-WR Black/Red Dual USB 3.0 ATX Full Tower Gaming Computer Case
It costs $130. Cheap - bad sign?
The fans are only 120mm, but it has 2 in front, 2 on top, 1 in the rear, and an optional one on the bottom. I will mount the cards as far apart as possible [sacrificing NVLink], & they'll probably be blowers in addition.
It has 6 internal bays that block the airflow from the front, but I'll only use one or two at the bottom for storage drives. I don't like the metal plates that would still block air, though. Maybe I can cut them off...
It has a hot-swapping port on top. Perfect!
I'm very nervous about this and would appreciate any other case ideas. Any ideas in general.
PLEASE correct me where I'm wrong! I'm far less experienced than I think I am and may be suffering from Dunning-Kruger Effect. Heck, I might even add a small, 3rd card for the monitor if someone doesn't stop me!
Thank you!
-Ken
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Comments
Your linked case is on sale for $89.87 for the next five hours. Save 31% they say.
I know, barbult. Thanks. But if it turns out to be the wrong case for me, the money saved wouldn't be worth it. I need to be slow and careful on this venture. Even returning things is more difficult under present day conditions.
Take care!
- Ken
DIYPC is a bad brand.
You do not want to be putting a $3000+ system in a $100 case that is so bad.
What you seem to want is to be able to boot into two OS. You don't need to swap drives for that. You definitely don't want to be booting off HDD's these days.
https://itsfoss.com/guide-install-linux-mint-16-dual-boot-windows/
As to having a DVD blueray player get this:
https://www.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E/ref=asc_df_B001TVAU0E/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807187084&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14676225747582760921&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021744&hvtargid=pla-761647492472&psc=1
or equivalent.
As to a case, the H500P mesh remains a great case.
If you are looking for a decent priced, but good quality case, take a look at phanteks cases. I was skeptical at first, the case I got was almost half the price of other case of similar size I was looking at. It's good quality though. Some people complained about some sharp metal in the reviews, all the metal on mine was comparable to every case I have built in so far.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00K6S1B3Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That was the exact one I bought, it's a lot larger than the other cases I had before it, which were also listed as full towers. Even my giant noctua cooler inside, has a few inches clearance from the case glass. And a few inches clearance on the power cords of my 2080 super, so it's not all bent hard making me nervous like that last case. I cut a hole in the plexiglass to let the power cord just pop through the last case, as it was pressing up against it, and I was nervous it would loosen the solder and pop right off.
Hi kenshaw. I know I can trust what you say about any case. Too bad, though. The DIYPC reviews aren't that bad...
I boot into several OS's. Each HDD has two or three. They keep old software accessible, like Photoshop 6.0, Gryphon Morph. Windows 7, XP. Old peripherals like scanners that still work fine. Various Linux's. Lots of good memories with them going back almost to the 90s. And it's how I've managed to save enough for my next system... Maybe it's an age thing, but I like my old stuff - even while learning the new, GIMP, Audacity etc. (all free).
I have a very nice Blu-ray burner/player. I'm just going to move it over to the new machine, hopefully before this one takes its last breath.
TheKD, thanks for the tip. Do I see 5.25 drive bays there? Yes I do! Front has options for large fans. Very good. I looked at a couple of Phantek cases yesterday and found nothing like what I see here. And yet I spent the whole day searching!
PCPartspicker kept referring me to old cases that were sold out! You guys already have me on a new path! Thank you so much!
Time for me to crash. I'll resume this venture tomorrow. Have a good evening/day etc!
The case I got came with one huge intake fan in the front, and a smaller exhaust fan on the back. I put another huge exhaust fan on the top vent, had to drill my own holes for that though. The predrilled doesn't come for a large fan like I put. All the vents but the rear come with removable filters. Lots of drive bays, and the are made so you screw them to a sliding mechanism. You can pop them out and in without having to uncrew them. It's got really good space in back of the MoBo for cable routing. It's a bit of a pain to move, but I have 4 HDD, a huge noctua cooler and 2 GPU, so that is to be expected lol.
I have this one its pretty roomy
https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Carbide-Series%E2%84%A2-Air-540-High-Airflow-ATX-Cube-Case/p/CC-9011030-WW
That's good if you're not pulling out more air than pushing in, right? To keep a positive pressure in the case to avoid dust collecting inside. You have filters, though (My current case has none).
This morning has been busy, but I'll spend the afternoon studying your case & scorpio's. They both look perfect for me. Especially since kenshaw hasn't commented on them yet ;-)
The Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 that scorpio has, being a cube shape - I wonder if the air flow would be more turbulent than directional, though. Need to study. I'm embarrassed that nothing like these had popped up in my own research.
But do SSDs make much difference after you're booted up and have your scene elements loaded?
Maybe I'm seeing this from the perspective of having everything slow. Working with the DS interface isn't terrible, it's the rendering that drives me insane. Waiting for 15 to 30 seconds each time I want to see how a tweak of lights will look is intolerable.
I had thought the two 2080 Ti's (and a Ryzen 7 3700X if I can manage it, and 32 GB RAM) would wipe out all sorts of delays like this, leaving the difference between HDDs and SSDs less an issue.
Don't be offended. Your experience is mountains above mine. My scenes are small to average, no large environments, and I use a lot of compositing. I'm also aiming for very short animations using the same techniques. But I can switch to an SSD at any time. Thanks for the pointer.
Ok, thanks again folks!
- Ken
Putting the OS('s) and programs on SSD's will make booting and starting programs much faster. It's been years since I booted windows off an HDD but I vaguely recall Win7 taking a minute or more. W10 takes maybe 10 seconds on my m.2 SSD.
Will putting the program on an SSD make the program more responsive during editing? Maybe a little. Having a faster CPU will help some as well. But don't expect miracles. DS is one of the least responsive programs I've ever seen.
2x 2080ti's will render animation just about as fast as anything can today. If you have the cash get the NVLink bridge so you can connect the two cards.
When I boot up, I habitually go run for a coffee... I'd hate to lose that opportunity :-)
They smash the two GPUs together, right up against each other with NVLink. It's a tiny brace. Whether I use blowers or not, I don't feel good about that. Whatever, it'd be further down the line for me.
So what do you think about the two cases mentioned above... considering my stubborn need to multi-boot with multi-different hard drives? You almost have me re-analyzing my old habits, and that's painful. The next thing is someone's going to tell me to get rid of my stack of newspapers that I've already read.
i always run out of vram on a 2080 TI. I would rather have a slower 24GB card.
+1
My problem is not speed, it's capacity.
I'm really getting interested in scorpio's cube case! The reviews are full of positive comments. The cons are workable, as far as I can see. There's a danger with the width of the GPUs, which could potentially extend beyond the glass side door. EVGA's 2080 Ti blower cards would fit OK, though, and those are what I'm aiming for. Though, if the case's air cooling is as good as it's touted to be, with large fans, etc, I may not even need blowers.
One concern may be the drives you put in the external bays. They're in the compartment with the PSU. Someone mentioned they can get hot because of that, and should have an added fan modded in. I don't have tools for that, nor talent.
With my 1060's 6 GB VRAM, it's only dropped to CPU for me once. I split up my scenes and composite them. I have Scene Optimizer, etc, as well but haven't used them yet.
Hi scorpio. Do you have any comments or warnings about your case? It looks like a beautiful way to organize a system, totally new to me.
I might have to prop up its right front and rear feet a bit so that the DVDs don't fall out of the vertical tray!
But it looks good for here in California. It won't tip over in an earthquake.
Seriously, thank you for recommending it!
-Ken
I have a 1080ti and a 2070. I make VN's, mostly superhero style stuff. I almost never need to optimize to keep my renders on both cards. I really don't know why people struggle so hard to stay under 8Gb.
I get if they're doing print art where they need high DPI but other than that I just don't get it. I'm doing a battle between a super, a villain, a dinosaur, a couple of cops and an environment and it all fits on the 8Gb card.
The real question is, are you shooting for stylized, or cinema quality realism in your renders. Also, how detailed are your character costumes, model generation and environment complexity? Good luck fiting 3 Gen8 toons with detailed costumes, a high detail dinosaur, and a Stonemason environment into an 8GB card.
I would gladly trade some render speed for a 24GB GPU. I enjoy rendering scenes with emissive surface lighting and voumetric light effects... (These eat VRAM like crazy)
I aim for high realism.
A big part of the problem with things like Stonemason's environments not fitting in 8gb is 4k maps. They just aren't needed at all. Just cut them down to 2k or 1k. Build the scene. Pick your camera angle and then for the stuff that isn't close to the camera cut those maps down by at least half. Same with outfits. Actually same with everything.
If there are 4k or FSM forbid 8k maps in a product they are completely unneeded except for extreme closeups. If you don't believe. Render the item, with the 4k or 8k maps, and with the maops cut to 2k and then run the images through an image comparison program.
I just don't buy stuff that has 8k maps unless its a character and am very picky about environments overall. Stonemason makes very cool looking environments but for the stories I tell he has none I can use.
Get a CoolerMaster HafX - http://us.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/case/haf-series/haf-x.html - It has all the room you need!
And while you are at it, get a Noctua NH-D15 for your CPU - https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15
Is there an easy way to reduce texture map size in Daz itself. Can Scene Optimizer do this?
Im too lazy to resize every texture for every particular occasion.
Sometimes i will have a tiny prop on a shelf way in the distance with a 4k map, and i know for a fact that's not making any difference, so having a quick way to adjust these will probably be a good way to save on vram. But for things in the foreground, i'll stick to 4k+ maps tyvm.
I agree with you on that. I want to use Daz Studio and have fun creating renders, not fishing through every single material file reducing the material resolutions to save VRAM.
I'm not creating an image that needs to be rendered 60 times per second, so let's leave the scene compromizes to the game designers.
I also want to have the freedom to move the camera around the scene and re-compose shots without having to stop and say "Wait a minute, did I reduce the texture resolution on that object that's right next to the camera now?"
Yes, Scene Optimizer can do it.
Thank you Mattymanx. I saw that case earlier on. It's one of the ones I mentioned that are out of stock everywhere.
I do like it. It has so many external drive bays I could use some as storage, not of data but of extra drives.
Maybe it's no longer produced, hence out of stock. The video review is from May of 2010.
I'll probably start 'feeling your pain' once I get deeper into the details of iray and start itching to create really detailed images. But it's fun enough just creating simple scenes or parts of scenes and compositing them together in various ways.
My Mom was an amazing artist who drew various styles, one being Sumi-e. I took some of those into Photoshop and added rain, ripples in water, etc, or just mixed parts of paintings. Even made some into animated gifs. I felt it was a new style of art, while she felt, eh, differently :-)
When I did my latest upgrade (new MP processor and memory), I ran into the ame issue you did. But my issue is i have a rather large EVGA 1200 watt PSU so when I upgraded I went from a Cooler Master CM690 Ver.II case with external drive bays in the case to a Cooler Master H500P Mesh case in White and I am glad I did, Much roomier and easier to build and will have plenty of room for a couple of 3080's when I upgrady myu video. But when I retired the CM 390, I lost my hard drive dock and my DVD Drive so I am getting an external Sata HD dock and an external enclosure to install my DVD drive in. All I have in the case for stroage is a pair of 2TB spinning disks in a mirrored aray and my SSD and my stack of extra storage is on the shelf. The hard drive dock should be here soon. Do you have room for the case and a hard drive dock and external enclosure?
Bill: I have the most cluttered desk on the planet.
I once searched for a way to externally connect an internal DVD player via e-SATA and found nothing very convenient. I haven't seen many e-SATA ports on cases. Mine has none. I'm so confused...
Right now, though, these are issues I can deal with later. My first concern is getting the new system together and working. No, my first is paying for it, but then the rest.
I still like that cube case!!
Mattymanx: Thanks for that! I know about Noctua because it's mentioned often in these threads. The videos your link leads to include some good refreshers on how to connect the thing, as well. You saved me some time searching for the proper cooler, and tutorials on connecting it.
Cheers!
-Ken
e-SATA is pretty much dead.
USB is better and youwould have no issue getting that.
If you have lots of HDD's I strongly suggest getting a NAS enclosure. You'll be way happier in the long run.
Both my hard drive Dock and the enclosure are USB 3.0 and the Hard Drive Dock is also type C.
USB can handle Blu-rays? Type C USB 3. I guess it's time to update my brain in that category, too.
Wow, e-SATA died kind of quickly. Seems it was new when I put this current machine together in 2013, which is why it doesn't have it.
Wait, this is 2020. Yipes!
So, I need to be sure my new MB includes USB 3.0, type 3. Thanks!
PS - I have lots of HDs because they're all old and only hold 500G to 1 TB. And then of course there's all my PATAs :-)
PPS - If I were female I'd probably have 20 cats, as well.
HDs that old are probably failure prone. Have a good backup. Consider consolidating to larger newer drives, if you can, before disaster strikes.
I hope you can still get one, the Cooler Master website does not show it as being discontinued. And dont mind the date of the video, the hardware he mentions maybe older but the sizes are no different then current large cards and hdds. I have two Zotac AMP Extreme 980TIs in my HafX and the Noctua NHD-15 right above it (with the fans blowing the air out the top) and everything fits with plenty of room left over.
You're welcome! :)
Probably a good idea as these 2080tis get quite hot. Not sure about blower cards as these get the hottest of the lot. Personally I'd also sacrifice MVLink to give the cards some cooling space, unless you want to liquid cool them.
The problem with e-SATA was that it did not supply power over the connector, so it was kinda useless for portable drives since you still needed to pull power from a USB port. It was great in theory, but was just not very practical... It didn't help that by the time e-SATA was coming as standard on laptops, USB 3.0 was starting to get into the laptop market. Unfortunately no one came out with an e-SATA cable that would pull power from the USB 2.0 port it was piggybacked on. So it came down to 1 USB port used vs. 2 USB ports used (e-SATA shared a port with a USB 2.0) for roughly the same external HDD speed.