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Thanks a lot for the clarifications Richard and Hiro.
@ Richard: Do you have the latest update of "From the Deep Aquatic Genesis", with the new scale maps, finger length settings, etc.?
Below is the image of the head crest. The problem is that the head crest is not subdividing along with genesis. It actually lines up perfectly when I set genesis to the base resolution. I was able to fix the head crest by dragging it into the scene and redoing the "Set Graft Faces..." & "Set Auto Hide Faces..." and then Fitting it to Genesis.
Strangely the ear fins only line up when I have genesis set to resolution high with the subdivision level 0. They do not match up with the base resolution or with and subdivision level higher than 0. I was not able to fix them like the head crest yet. The hands and feet also have similar issues but I did not look into them in detail. I did install the product manually since I'm not using DIM but I don't think that would cause an issue.
Yes, I see that - and even if I unconform the crest I can't set its resolution to anything other than base, which suggests there may be a problem with SubD on it rather than with the GeoGrafting per se.
According to the Reference Guide the Geo-Graft is supposed to assume the Resolution Level & SubDivision level of genesis. I have seen and made Geo-Grafts that have no SubD, their Resolution is stuck on "Base" and they still work perfectly fine and match genesis' subdivision while "Fit To" it. One example product is "Catgirl Genesis". When properly working grafts have SubD on the graft itself, it is ignored while they are "Fit To" Genesis. Otherwise they would not seamlessly match Genesis.
I think the problem is that the Aquatic grafts are not linking to Genesis' SubD level like they are supposed to. I noticed this happening with a custom Geo-Graft I made when I "Set Graft Faces..." on the graft instead of on genesis. I was instructed to "Set Graft Faces..." on the graft in Blondie9999's Advanced Rigging tutorial. Blondie9999 is also the maker of Aquatic Genesis so I'm starting to think the issue might be from doing the "Set Graft Faces..." on the graft instead of genesis. Especially since I was able to fix the head crest easily by redoing the "Set Graft Faces...". Unless it's something else & it's just coincidence?
I'm still not sure why I have not been able to fix the fin ears. I wonder if it's because the geometry for the graft loop matches Genesis with Resolution high & SubD 0 instead of base.
Thanks for looking into this with me. I really wish the Geo-Grafting Reference Guide was completed so we all do not have to spend so many hours in trial and error.
True, the Cat Girl items do load and not show higher levels for SubD - the items I'd looked at did, though as you say when fitted the setting should be picked up from the fitted to figure. I'd still report it as a bug and let DAZ decide if it's a content or an application bug.
I'm going to see if I can figure out any more details before I report it as a bug. The contradicting info really concerns me. I wonder if they changed the way Geo-Grafting works in the newer versions of DS. Would you mind letting me know what version of DS you use, as I think you have had similar results as me? I've been using 4.6.0.18. I also posted some questions and the results of my tests over on Blondiee999's Advanced Rigging forum: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16606/P45
EDIT: I submitted a help request and also added a post with screenshots on the other thread: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16606/P45/#440419
I wonder if the problem is the triangles in the mesh. As far as I understand these don't subdivide easily. Maybe an update to daz has changed something there which breaks grafting with such typology?
I did some graft testing the other day with an all quad mesh and didn't encounter any issues. I dropped the recipient mesh to base level, loaded the graft, selected faces on the recipient and did the fit. Subdivision seemed to work fine, but I didn't test that extensively.
Thanks for looking into it DrHemulen. I've always heard it's best to model in quads (4 sided polygons) for smooth subdivision. That is important to note but I don't think it's related to the other issues. Did you work with a mesh/graft from a bought product or is is custom?
I would greatly appreciate if anyone could confirm similar results with any of the following points:
1. When I perform the "Set Graft Faces for Fitted Figure" on the attachment (as instructed in the Advanced Rigging Manual), it does not weld to or subdivide along with genesis. I was able to solve this by performing it on Genesis instead.
2. When I don't include the outer grafting loop with the Auto Hidden faces (as instructed in the Advanced Rigging Manual), I get harsh edges (not smoothed?) along the grafting loop. I was able to solve this by including the outer grafting loop with the Auto Hidden faces.
3. The product "Aquatic for Genesis" does not weld to or subdividing with genesis. I was able to fix this for all parts except the ears with points 1 & 2 above. The ears seem to have the grafting loop vertices aligned to Genesis at high resolution with a subdivision level of 0, instead it should be aligned to Genesis with a resolution of Base. I was able to fix it by replacing the grafting loop but I messed up the UVs, I think I could fix it if I snapped the existing vertices into place.
I went into more detail and have screenshots here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16606/P45/#439512
I think I have things figured out but I wanted to make sure I'm doing things properly and that it works consistently for everyone. If I'm correct with my statements above, I hope the "Advanced Rigging Manual" and "Aquatic" products are updated.
I've played around with genesis and a test graft and I've been able to reproduce your problems. It turns out that something must have changed since Blondie9999 made the manual.
I tried the following:
Hiro's method
Graft onto base recipient: OK, smoth integration, graft subdivides with recipient.
Graft onto Hires, SubD 0 recipient: OK, smoth integration, graft subdivides with recipient.
Blondie9999's method
Graft onto base recipient: Edges not hidden. Gap around edge when subdividing. Graft not subdividing with reciepent.
Graft onto Hires, SubD 0 recipient: Edges not hidden. Gap around edge when subdividing. Graft not subdividing with reciepent.
I also tried a modified version of Blondie9999's method, where I also assign the graft edges on the recipent to be hidden, contrary to to what explicitely stated in the tutorial. This fixed the issues of the edges not being hidden, but still retained your problems with the gap and the graft not subdividing.
So conclusions:
* Something has changed in DAZ since Blondie9999 made his tutorial and sea-man-thing add-on
* The method Hiro shows in this thread's OP works.
* Triangles in the graft probably isn't the issue (didn't get around to testing this as the problem was already found).
* It doesn't matter if the recipient mesh is in base or hires mode. Even though it doesn't look like the graft edges overlap in hires mode, Daz figures this out.
DAZ version used: 4.6.0.18
SO that makes total sense compared to what you see.
If you want to fix the ears, blender can snap vertices like you describe. You may have to snap the UVs as well, but it's pretty easy :)
Have you checked that the ears themselves don't have a hires modifer tacked onto them by accient? If they have and default to hires, div0 that might cause the issue?
@ DrHemulen: Thanks again for providing more details.
I feel more confident that we have things working constantly in DS 4.6.0.18. If an update did break the aquatic product, I would like to know if it's because of a new bug that will be fixed or if it's a permanent change.
Since they were working on adding features to blend UVs at the seams between attached grafts & base figures, that leads me to believe it was intended for us to not hide the grafting loop, even though that causes issues now.
If anyone has a version of DS that supports Geo-Grafting other than 4.6.0.18 I would love to hear if your experiencing similar results with the methods and Aquatic product.
I'm still waiting almost a week now to hear back on my tech support help request.
I just had my attention called to this thread.
When I wrote the Advanced Rigging tutorial, I was using DS 4.5-something (not sure exactly which version). It appears that something may have been changed with the way geo-grafting works since I wrote the tutorial.
Likewise, Aquatic Genesis was created with version 4.5, and everything worked fine "then." What has been changed since, I really don't know-- but it appears that something has.
This kind of thing has been an ongoing problem in "supporting" DS from Day One. Something that worked in version 2.2.3 didn't work in version 2.2.4. Something that worked in version 3.6.1.13 didn't work in version 3.6.1.14. It's happened again and again, and frankly, I'm very fed up with it.
I can imagine, the problem is that you as the artist look like you don't know what you are doing, even though you can't predict future changes to the software, and has to work with what's available :(
For what it's worth I just read your advanced rigging guide, and feel that I learned a lot, and you do state that future changes in DAZ may make things less accurate.
Swawa brings up an interesting point with the need to now hide the graft loop might be a sign that DAZ is dropping the whole vertex blending thing whitch would be a shame. That would be so much easier than messing around with LIE stuff.
Ah really thank you,, this topic seems solve most of problems which I feel ,, when assign graft and show the mesh.
I simply thought I mistake when cut roop,, though I copied roop by blender,, then not touched it at all,,
but there were gap,,.
then now I re-assgine faces again as hiro way,, it seems more reasonable result,,,
Now I have some qeustion,,,
in brondie tutoriall,, there has been discribed about presentation editor,
to set content type as follower attachments,,
,(but in ds 4.6 I could not find the action)
I think it only need to set type ,and we can do it,, when I save it as figure,,
or I can do it in content db editor,, is it same thing?
and sawada asked already,,
then Hiro said,,
It’s clear now that the Polygon Assignment operations are done on Genesis (or host) onlythen,, once I have already set graft faces on the fitted items,,
then,,, how remove the wrong assignment if I need ?
I think after assign graft faces,(auto hide faces) I could not check it again,,Is their good way,,
to re-assigne again?
And I think,, the joint area,, we only need to keep outer edge,,
but after all,, the joint area loop will be overwritten by genesis mesh, once fit to, and geo grafted work.
(though I have set the loop as hidden mesh for fitted figure)
I try to make morph ,move the inner (second loop only) , like my pic,, (to test, I move them ugly,, )
I made morph for graft (not for genesis)
it move the innner loop vertices only, then these vertices are included in Graft mesh.
But after all if the graft fit to genesis,, the morph can not work.
(Actually,, it have worked and defrom, but we can not see it, untill hide genesis)
Then to make morph the inner (second loop section) to smooth the joint area,
I need to tweak genesis mesh. not geo graft mesh.
(when make morph, we must un-fit the graft face, without it,,
the vertex coutns can not keep poligons (we hide them,,,)
I'm not sure that you can change this after you have created the graft. Perhaps you can but I don't know. I would go through the whole process again from the beginning, as it isn't really that difficult. I think this would be quicker and less frustrating than trying to modify the existing graft.
The most difficult thing is making sure the ring of polygons that are shared between the host and graft are perfectly aligned (which is done in your modelling program). If this isn't right, then it cannot be fixed in Studio.
Ah,, really thank you,, if you can more input in this Topic ,,
then actually your way , change drasitcally my old Geo grafting items ,,,:roll:
I perfectly miss under standing before.,thank you much,,
Now my geo graft can auto-sub D applied,, if I applied it Actor,,
and at least when I fit graft to Actor, I could not find any border,, (the ring area poligons position of graft items,,
perfectly overwritten by the hidden Genesis mesh positon, and joint well other part vertices,,).
(but I sculpted,, a little,, the innner vertices positon,, to make smooth joint,,
with keeping outer edges vertices positon,,when I remaked the graft,,,
so that,,, It may cause some problem ^^; ?!)
I can see double edges on your first screenshot. I'm assuming that this is showing that some vertices along the edge where the graft joins are not perfectly aligned. I start a Geo-Graft by copying the ring of faces from Genesis that correspond to the edge of the area I am replacing with the graft. With this starting point you know that this ring will align perfectly. I then work by extruding from the inside of this face loop without modifiying this original loop at all. This means starting with a loop larger than you need and only working inside it.
This can be quite tricky as it is easy to move vertices on this loop unintentionally, especially with proportional edit tools (the tool that effects a whole area at once—I use Blender and it is called the Proportional Edit tool). If there is a way in your editor to lock these vertices then that's the best thing. There is a (rather fiddly) way to put any moved vertices back where they belong, but I only know how to do this in Blender and I won't explain it here.
I have avoided making morphs in the graft that effect the area where the graft joins the body. I'm not sure that the host (e.g. Genesis) will follow these morphs. However, the graft will follow the morphs on the host (e.g. Genesis) in that area (e.g. the lower stomach in the Genesis male genitalia Geo-Graft). If you have this item you will see that there is quite a large perimeter which is untouched—the polygons are identical to those on Genesis.
Ah I see,, :) thank you many advice,, I must check more when I decide the roop area,,
which can make smooth connection easy,,, as you adviced,,
then I use blender too ^^,, I really want to know all techinc of blender,, (hexagon only use,, when I make simple test for morphs)
the first pic may had actually gap ,, then After I re-arrange all vertices by blender
snapping,, it still tunred up,, so that,, it was actually one of questionn I will need to ask,,
but,, I found, when I export blender,, or make anything for genesis, I must keep resolution lever "base" and sub-D "zero"
then sometimes, I jsut set Actor resolution lever zero, without change High resolution in daz studio,,
before,, I had believed, even though I set high resolution when sub-D lever zero = no sub-D,
then the veritcies point are same as "base" and zeo sub=D,,
but if I resolution lever to "base",, actually all vertices slgihty move ^^;
so that the pic had gap,,
(I believe,, some, or few guys may often make same mistake,, about the resolution lever,,
it actually change,, even though we set sub-D zero,, sometimes I find the problem of another guys,
who may not change it, or forget it,, only change sub-D to zero)
then,, Now I have some UV question,, then hope to ask here @@;)
would not you mind it I ask about geo graftin uv problem with sepcific shape ,,in this topic@@;?
I am worry,,, if it annoy other guys who need to check this important topic,,
Yes, you do need to ensure you are exporting Genesis in base resolution! This also applies to standard morphs, of course.
As for texture maps, these are no simple matter. There is some discussion earlier in the thread. For grafts that require seamless texturing (as with your project) you have a few choices:
One is to texture paint an entire new texture set for the figure (you could base this on an existing set). This is no easy task, of course, but it can be done in recent versions of Blender (see this tutorial by SickleYield on her deviantArt site).
Another is to create a texture for your graft only (which would have a visible seam where it joins Genesis), and another map for the whole figure consisting of only a blending zone (with transparency) to cover the seam areas only, and apply this using MLIE. I think you can also create blending areas using Geometry Shell, but I am fuzzy on the details of this as it is some time since I used them.
I've followed the examples but I'm having a problem during the "Fit to" step.
When I fit the figure to be geo-grafted to Genesis 2 female it is attached but is translated way off in space.
I made the piece by invis'ing all but the chest piece of genesis exporting that as an obj modifying it in Maya to add more geometry and then re-importing to Daz. The problem seems to be that genesis was in a pose, rotated , hip rotations and translated 500 units away from the origin when I did the export. The obj import puts it in the right spot but apparently not the right space for the fit to operation.
Is there anyway around this? Already added some morphs to graft object and really don't want to start from scratch…
thanks
Thank you so much for this wonderfully detailed tutorial.
I'm posting the "cliff notes" version mostly for myself really, as I always have a hard time following steps while doing it.
import obj.
scene>assets>transfer untility: source=genesis, target=obj. uncheck fit to source figure.
tools>poly grp editor. paint edge faces selection.
rightclick menu on selection: poly assignment>set graft faces for fitted figure. select genesis in dialog.
paint all interior faces. rightclick selection: poly assign>auto hide faces.
universal tool. select obj in scene. open parameters: fit to... Genesis
I 'm not agree with tmtmtm about "uncheck fit to source figure".
I test with Genesis2Female. But in the end it's very strange, you can convert your .obj to subdivision, select with the node Selection the head for my example and after it's ok.
Look my test video to explain my observations :
http://youtu.be/eLPkyeBovP8
I've tested the process outlined in my tutotial in Studio 4.7 using G2M (I followed it exactly, as I'd actually forgotten how to do it) and it works exactly as described. There is a only a difference in the naming of the tools and operations: The Polygon Group Editor is now the Geometry Editor Tool, and "polygon" has been replaced by "geometry" throughout. The tools are still there, are easy to find and work in the same way.
I created this peculiar fin object in Blender and fitted it.. I noticed that when I imported the fin into Studio, the edges of the shared faces were not absolutely exact (although they were very close) but nevertheless the graft fit perfectly without any splits. So there is a bit of tolerance there, which is good to know.
From what I can see you are manually applying subdivision to the graft before fitting, which isn't necessary. From what I can tell, if you do this it will still work, but the graft doesn't fit smoothly straight away. It seems it works if you deselect the graft and select it again, or something like that, I'm not sure what does it. If you save fit to figure until last it works immediately. I don't see the point of adding extra steps when the method works as it is.
By the way, tmtmtm's post is just a quick summary of the tutorial at the begining of this thread. It is actually my instruction to "uncheck fit to source figure" and I stand by it. The method was worked out by several people, including myself, on a very long thread on the old forum years ago when Geo-Grafting first came out. I can't remember all the reasons why we decided on this way of doing it, but it works.
Thank you Hiro Protagonist. I test your method in Daz 4.7.
I have one question :
I create some geografting (attachments) for Genesis 2 and i want to know if i can pay licence to sell an attachment (geografting) ?
For example if your Geo-Graft requires Genesis, or another DAZ figure, in order to be any use then you are fine. If however, your graft figure was constructed so that it could be used as an independent figure and/or would be useful without requiring the customer to use DAZ content then you be breaking the agreement and could face legal action.
Just to note that Hiro's method worked for me perfectly. The only change I've found in 4.6 is that Polygon Selection Editor is called the Geometry Editor Tool now, just as per note in the first post.
Hello.
Everybody talk about "Genesis 1 2 etc..." but what happens about the stand alone ?
I try transfert utility but it doesnt works.
I make a video to illustrate that :
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8CDVjbYnrw&feature=youtu.be[/video]
I'm completely at a loss as how to get geographing to work.
1)Sent the Genesis figure to Hexagon.
2)Made a replacement head.
3)Copied a ring of polygons around the neck.
4) Welded the ring and the head together.
5) Welded the replacement head to the ring.
6) Sent it to Daz.
7) Convert to SubD
8) Transfer utility with no fit to.
9) Set the ring on the genesis with "Set Graph Faces For Fitted Figure"
10) Set the ring and the whole genesis head to "Set Autohide Faces For Fitted Figure"
Then fit the replacement head to Genesis aaaaaand....
Everything screws up. None of the faces autohide and one weird section of the neck remains base resolution even though the rest of the model is subdivided.
I don't know if I've missed some polygons or something? Unfortunately there's no way to view in the geometry editor which polygons have been assigned to the graph faces or autohide.
Hello ghastlycomic.
1)Sent the Genesis figure to Hexagon. Genesis 1 or 2 (with Parameters / mesh resolution base/0) ?
2)Made a replacement head.
3)Copied a ring of polygons around the neck.OK
4) Welded the ring and the head together.
5) Welded the replacement head to the ring.
6) Sent it to Daz.
7) Convert to SubD (not necessary) use directly Transfer utility with no fit to.
8) Transfer utility with no fit to.
9) Set the ring on the genesis with “Set Graph Faces For Fitted Figure”ok
10) Set the ring and the whole genesis head to “Set Autohide Faces For Fitted Figure”Not ring + whole BUT only whole !
11)select only your geograft and File/save as/support asset/ Figure prop asset
If you have some difficult again you can send me your work by private message and i see where is prob.I make a video on youtube to see how to.
Good work.
Just a couple of observations: there is no step 7 in the method I described; either it isn't necessary or may actually cause a problem to convert the graft figure to subd manually. The figure is subdivided automatically when it is fitted. I'd therefore leave out this step. Secondly, the ring around the neck doesn't just look like it's at base resolution; it looks to me as if it doesn't have smooth shading set. I don't know how to use Hexagon so I don't know how that property is set, but it looks as if something isn't right about your graft figure.
Actually, it doesn't look to me as if the graft has welded at all, but that's hard to tell from the screenshot. I think we will need to see a wireframe view to be able to see what is going wrong, so a screenshot in Wire Texture Shaded mode would be useful. I don't see any reason why your concept shouldn't work in theory.