Sept 2016 New User Contest "Depth of Field" (WIP Thread)

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Comments

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    MN-150374 said:

    @Dawnblade: Well done!

    Thank you MN-150374!

  •  

    Had these two ideas that wouldn't leave me alone yesterday. Thought I share them with everyone for feedback.

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  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

    Cheeta girl seems to be getting herself into all kinds of trouble!

    Of the five last renders you've posted Shinji, I like the last one best as it's telling a story. The others are more portrait style renders, which works well to show off the badass characters but maybe not doing much else, which also makes any use of DoF less dramatic. You could of course put them all into a big action scene like you did last month. That could be really interesting to see, as it's interesting characters.

  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

     

    dawnblade said:

    In this version, I increased pixel samples (x and y) to 16, set max ray trace to 1 (it was zero), and used a shading rate of .40 (it was 1).

    I changed the blood spatter color and opacity on the charging skeleton's shield, so hopefully it looks more muted. I also added a dragon in the distance coming to the elf's rescue.

     That dragon fills up that empty space very nicely! As far as I'm concerned, you've got the scene set. Well done!

  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

    Thanks for the input Kismet. Made a few tweaks.

    It's generally a bad idea trying to destroy what keeps you up in the air. I guess our heroine here didn't know that. (or she is trying to make a heroic sacrifice)

    I think I actually prefered the first version even if I agree that it was difficult to see the sword in the eye. Here it is instead hard to know what happened. There's not really anything indicating the eye is injured, even with the blood splatter. A closed eye could perhaps help that? Also, it seems to me the sword is falling the wrong way if it has just recently been stuck in the dragon's eye.

    As always, this is just my opinions. Please feel free to ignore me. smiley

  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,944

    Thanks for the input Kismet. Made a few tweaks.

    I think the only trouble in this render is that you did not decide as to where you put the focus of your DOF, there is the head of the dragon and the falling girl, both can be the focus I belive you stuck yourself somewhere in the middle so none of them is really in focus. The question you need to answer for yourself is who is the main cast, the girl or the dragon. decide that, put the focus and then you can find a solution to make clear to what is happening on the other part.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    isidorn said:

    That dragon fills up that empty space very nicely! As far as I'm concerned, you've got the scene set. Well done!

    Thank you @isidorn!

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    edited September 2016

    This version has blood and dirt stains on charging skeleton's right leg (just above and below knee), blood stains on dead skeleton's breastplate, and spider webs thrown about. I also removed the eyes from the charging skeleton.

    I also added the elf's trusty Battle Cat, who is poised to take out the back line--who are too fixated on other things. Since it is beneath the overhead I kept most light off it, but let me know if it still clutters the scene and I'll remove it.

    I added a vignette to the scene as well to try it out. Again, let me know if it is a distraction.

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  • Linwelly said:

    Very nice idea and the DOF fits good. The only thing bothering me are the flames in the back, do you have a different pro you could try as fire? or tone down the amount of light coming from it, especially the red part.

    I fixed the fireplace flames. Please let me know what you think.

    Thanks for your help!

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  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,944
    dawnblade said:

    This version has blood and dirt stains on charging skeleton's right leg (just above and below knee), blood stains on dead skeleton's breastplate, and spider webs thrown about. I also removed the eyes from the charging skeleton.

    I also added the elf's trusty Battle Cat, who is poised to take out the back line--who are too fixated on other things. Since it is beneath the overhead I kept most light off it, but let me know if it still clutters the scene and I'll remove it.

    I added a vignette to the scene as well to try it out. Again, let me know if it is a distraction.

    The dirt things work out nicely, the spiderwebs are generally a good idea but they are to visible as not affected by the DOF. I believe they are postwork? A solution is to add Gaussian blurr to the layer with the spiderwebs to simulate the DOF. As for the vignette I thing I would prefer something round or oval, the corners a kind of distracting.

    I'm not sure what to make of the cat. right now there is not enough visible to see its part in the story you tell, could be both, attacking the skelettons or team up with them. If you give it more screenspace it could be better but for the set as it is I would leave it away.

     

  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,944
    kanegs said:
    Linwelly said:

    Very nice idea and the DOF fits good. The only thing bothering me are the flames in the back, do you have a different pro you could try as fire? or tone down the amount of light coming from it, especially the red part.

    I fixed the fireplace flames. Please let me know what you think.

    Thanks for your help!

    Yes those flames are far better! The only thing you could think about is if you want to keep the format. Right now there is a lot of empty space ( the wall) in your render. Empty space is not gernerally a bad thing but a tool that should be used conciously. As the focus of attention in your render is in the center I would advice to cut down on the outer space. Teh decision is certainly yours, this is pretty much a finished work.

  • Linwelly said:

    Yes those flames are far better!

    Now that the flames are better, I'm wondering if I need to add a carpet to the floor in front of the fireplace...

    Linwelly said:

    The only thing you could think about is if you want to keep the format. Right now there is a lot of empty space ( the wall) in your render. Empty space is not gernerally a bad thing but a tool that should be used conciously. As the focus of attention in your render is in the center I would advice to cut down on the outer space. Teh decision is certainly yours, this is pretty much a finished work.

    My original plan was to show her out of focus in the foreground, and I could only do that with a landscape orientation (otherwise her face in the mirror gets obscured). I'll see what I can manage with a portrait orientation.

    My other concern is viewer not being reflected in the mirror. It feels like I'm having an "Out of Body Experience".

    Thanks again for your help.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    kanegs said:
    Linwelly said:

    Yes those flames are far better!

    Now that the flames are better, I'm wondering if I need to add a carpet to the floor in front of the fireplace...

    Linwelly said:

    The only thing you could think about is if you want to keep the format. Right now there is a lot of empty space ( the wall) in your render. Empty space is not gernerally a bad thing but a tool that should be used conciously. As the focus of attention in your render is in the center I would advice to cut down on the outer space. Teh decision is certainly yours, this is pretty much a finished work.

    My original plan was to show her out of focus in the foreground, and I could only do that with a landscape orientation (otherwise her face in the mirror gets obscured). I'll see what I can manage with a portrait orientation.

    My other concern is viewer not being reflected in the mirror. It feels like I'm having an "Out of Body Experience".

    Thanks again for your help.

    The empty space does not bother me.  My eye is drawn right to the reflection in the mirror.

    If adding a rug just be careful it does not become a distraction in the reflected image.

    A really great concept.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    Linwelly said:
    dawnblade said:

    This version has blood and dirt stains on charging skeleton's right leg (just above and below knee), blood stains on dead skeleton's breastplate, and spider webs thrown about. I also removed the eyes from the charging skeleton.

    I also added the elf's trusty Battle Cat, who is poised to take out the back line--who are too fixated on other things. Since it is beneath the overhead I kept most light off it, but let me know if it still clutters the scene and I'll remove it.

    I added a vignette to the scene as well to try it out. Again, let me know if it is a distraction.

    The dirt things work out nicely, the spiderwebs are generally a good idea but they are to visible as not affected by the DOF. I believe they are postwork? A solution is to add Gaussian blurr to the layer with the spiderwebs to simulate the DOF. As for the vignette I thing I would prefer something round or oval, the corners a kind of distracting.

    I'm not sure what to make of the cat. right now there is not enough visible to see its part in the story you tell, could be both, attacking the skelettons or team up with them. If you give it more screenspace it could be better but for the set as it is I would leave it away.

     

    This is my opinion only but I find the cat distracting.  He is taking my eye away from your charging Skeleton Warrior and does not seem to be adding to the story.

    His shadow may be enough?  A suggestion that something is there and about to enter the picture? 

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252

     

    Had these two ideas that wouldn't leave me alone yesterday. Thought I share them with everyone for feedback.

    I am loving this last image.  I tend to agree with @isidorn that the others are more portrait images of your characters which have value in their own way.  It is really great to see the characters as individuals although your recent Cheetah Girl image is a little dark on my monitor.  But I know from experience not all monitors are calibrated the same.

    I am really enjoying seeing these characters in different settings.  Thank you for sharing them with us.

     

  • Hi, everyone. I'm just starting out trying to learn the various tools and techniques over the last month or so. Saphirewild and Ice Dragon Art guided me over here to learn and get feedback. I understand why after seeing the amazing stuff and great feedback in here!

    When I saw this months contest, an image popped in my head immediately. I appreciate all feedback and guidance. Thanks!

     

     

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  • I have zero ideas for this at the moment.  Although everything I am seeing so far looks pretty good!

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    Linwelly said:

    The dirt things work out nicely, the spiderwebs are generally a good idea but they are to visible as not affected by the DOF. I believe they are postwork? A solution is to add Gaussian blurr to the layer with the spiderwebs to simulate the DOF. As for the vignette I thing I would prefer something round or oval, the corners a kind of distracting.

    I'm not sure what to make of the cat. right now there is not enough visible to see its part in the story you tell, could be both, attacking the skelettons or team up with them. If you give it more screenspace it could be better but for the set as it is I would leave it away.

     

    This is my opinion only but I find the cat distracting.  He is taking my eye away from your charging Skeleton Warrior and does not seem to be adding to the story.

    His shadow may be enough?  A suggestion that something is there and about to enter the picture? 

    Thank you very much @Linwelly and @Kismet2012. I had applied Gaussian blur to the cobwebs in Gimp but it looks like it either wasn't enough or it just didn't work. I'll try it again and if it doesn't work I'll remove them.

    The cat was also a last-minute addition so thank you both for your feedback. I think I'll remove it and the vignette as well, and maybe I'll work on a separate scene for the battle cat since there is still time left!

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    dawnblade said:
    Linwelly said:

    The dirt things work out nicely, the spiderwebs are generally a good idea but they are to visible as not affected by the DOF. I believe they are postwork? A solution is to add Gaussian blurr to the layer with the spiderwebs to simulate the DOF. As for the vignette I thing I would prefer something round or oval, the corners a kind of distracting.

    I'm not sure what to make of the cat. right now there is not enough visible to see its part in the story you tell, could be both, attacking the skelettons or team up with them. If you give it more screenspace it could be better but for the set as it is I would leave it away.

     

    This is my opinion only but I find the cat distracting.  He is taking my eye away from your charging Skeleton Warrior and does not seem to be adding to the story.

    His shadow may be enough?  A suggestion that something is there and about to enter the picture? 

    Thank you very much @Linwelly and @Kismet2012. I had applied Gaussian blur to the cobwebs in Gimp but it looks like it either wasn't enough or it just didn't work. I'll try it again and if it doesn't work I'll remove them.

    The cat was also a last-minute addition so thank you both for your feedback. I think I'll remove it and the vignette as well, and maybe I'll work on a separate scene for the battle cat since there is still time left!

    You never know if something will work until you try it. 

  • FastKatt said:

    Hi, everyone. I'm just starting out trying to learn the various tools and techniques over the last month or so. Saphirewild and Ice Dragon Art guided me over here to learn and get feedback. I understand why after seeing the amazing stuff and great feedback in here!

    When I saw this months contest, an image popped in my head immediately. I appreciate all feedback and guidance. Thanks!

     

     

    The people in this forum are amazing. Your image is starting out very nicely. A story popped into my head quickly when seeing it which, itself, is a great start.

    Lighting seems to be the big issue for me with your image. I struggle with lighting myself so you find yourself in good company.

    They are sitting in front of a fire, but it seems pretty light outside and their shadows aren't cast long, so I am guessing maybe nearer to mid-day. No one is dressed that warmly, so I am guessing that the day times aren't particularly cold - so perhaps this is supposed to be a night scene or nearer to dusk. Iray vs. 3DL would be helpful for the lighting gurus here to know.

    A couple of things to consider.... The light from the fire should be warm - more in the red/orange/yellow spectrum. This can provide a better explanation that I will give: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature . The file will cause it's own shadows to be cast and might be the primary light for your two foreground characters. You might be able to change the light from your distance source (HDR? Distance Light? Other?) to a more cool temperature - in the blues to make it look closer to dusk (here is where we hope one of the lighting gurus comes in and corrects me). Maybe change the angle of the light so that it is lower on the horizon and will cast the longer shadows. This is where the hair pulling really begins smiley. Trust me, the exercise will be worth it and for every mistake you make, you will be learning a ton. 

    As far as the image is concerned, they don't seem to have any bags about or any "stuff" they may have scavanged. They would likely keep it close and any improvised weapons as well. (I'm guessing they are in a bit of trouble here. If I am missing the point, just ignore me.)

    I like the DOF in the background and foreground. Maybe experiment with a little more in the foreground. I think that fire is coming along pretty good but it might be interesting to see if it looks better with a little more blurriness. If not, put it back.

    A couple of blurry rats in the background might add to the ambience as well. 

    Good luck and welcome to the forum.

     

  • dawnblade said:

    Select your object in the scene tab, then go to Tools/Geometry Editor.

    1. Your cursor will change to a red circle 

    2. Select the item you want to hide

    3. Right-click the selected item, and choose Geometry Selection/Select Connected

    4. The selection will have expanded if applicable

    5. Right-click the selection again and choose Geometry Visibility/Hide Selected Polygon(s)

    6. The post is now invisible!

    7. Thanks to @DvoraszeniaStudios for providing help with making sure the changes you make are actually saved with the scene:

    To hide them permanently in that scene, once you have the polygons hidden, just go to Geometry Editing > Delete Hidden Polygons. (this will permanently alter the guard tower just in the scene, not in your assets. If you want to use this same scene again with the tower fully exposed, then I would just suggest saving it with an alternate scene name.) Also, there are other useful ways to select polygons using lasso or marquee, under Geometry Selection, which is very helpful for selection of large areas in a scene. Extremely useful for kitbashing, once you play around with it, you'll wonder how you did without it.

    8. Don't forget to select the Node or Universal tool to exit Geometry Editor mode when you're done

     

     

    @dawnblade - These came in handy tonight as I needed to remove a small troublesome branch. Worked like a charm. Thank you!

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    edited September 2016
    ewcarman said:
    dawnblade said:

    Select your object in the scene tab, then go to Tools/Geometry Editor.

    1. Your cursor will change to a red circle 

    2. Select the item you want to hide

    3. Right-click the selected item, and choose Geometry Selection/Select Connected

    4. The selection will have expanded if applicable

    5. Right-click the selection again and choose Geometry Visibility/Hide Selected Polygon(s)

    6. The post is now invisible!

    7. Thanks to @DvoraszeniaStudios for providing help with making sure the changes you make are actually saved with the scene:

    To hide them permanently in that scene, once you have the polygons hidden, just go to Geometry Editing > Delete Hidden Polygons. (this will permanently alter the guard tower just in the scene, not in your assets. If you want to use this same scene again with the tower fully exposed, then I would just suggest saving it with an alternate scene name.) Also, there are other useful ways to select polygons using lasso or marquee, under Geometry Selection, which is very helpful for selection of large areas in a scene. Extremely useful for kitbashing, once you play around with it, you'll wonder how you did without it.

    8. Don't forget to select the Node or Universal tool to exit Geometry Editor mode when you're done

     

     

    @dawnblade - These came in handy tonight as I needed to remove a small troublesome branch. Worked like a charm. Thank you!

    You're welcome, @ewcarman! So glad I was able to help you.

    Edit: I just looked at my scene and saw the lone piece of wood hanging above the charging skeleton. Making good use of the Geometry Editor!

    Post edited by dawnblade on
  • sueyasueya Posts: 832

    I have two ideas for this competition. Feedback is welcome.

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  • ewcarman said:
    FastKatt said:

    Hi, everyone. I'm just starting out trying to learn the various tools and techniques over the last month or so. Saphirewild and Ice Dragon Art guided me over here to learn and get feedback. I understand why after seeing the amazing stuff and great feedback in here!

    When I saw this months contest, an image popped in my head immediately. I appreciate all feedback and guidance. Thanks!

     

     

    The people in this forum are amazing. Your image is starting out very nicely. A story popped into my head quickly when seeing it which, itself, is a great start.

    Lighting seems to be the big issue for me with your image. I struggle with lighting myself so you find yourself in good company.

    They are sitting in front of a fire, but it seems pretty light outside and their shadows aren't cast long, so I am guessing maybe nearer to mid-day. No one is dressed that warmly, so I am guessing that the day times aren't particularly cold - so perhaps this is supposed to be a night scene or nearer to dusk. Iray vs. 3DL would be helpful for the lighting gurus here to know.

    A couple of things to consider.... The light from the fire should be warm - more in the red/orange/yellow spectrum. This can provide a better explanation that I will give: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature . The file will cause it's own shadows to be cast and might be the primary light for your two foreground characters. You might be able to change the light from your distance source (HDR? Distance Light? Other?) to a more cool temperature - in the blues to make it look closer to dusk (here is where we hope one of the lighting gurus comes in and corrects me). Maybe change the angle of the light so that it is lower on the horizon and will cast the longer shadows. This is where the hair pulling really begins smiley. Trust me, the exercise will be worth it and for every mistake you make, you will be learning a ton. 

    As far as the image is concerned, they don't seem to have any bags about or any "stuff" they may have scavanged. They would likely keep it close and any improvised weapons as well. (I'm guessing they are in a bit of trouble here. If I am missing the point, just ignore me.)

    I like the DOF in the background and foreground. Maybe experiment with a little more in the foreground. I think that fire is coming along pretty good but it might be interesting to see if it looks better with a little more blurriness. If not, put it back.

    A couple of blurry rats in the background might add to the ambience as well. 

    Good luck and welcome to the forum.

     

    @ewcarman, thank you so much for the detailed feedback! Lighting is definitely a sticky point for me and where I end up spending most of my time trying to get things right. You've given me quite a bit to think about. Thanks!

  • Just a quick 10 min render of my initial setup. Posing and such to come. I tend to try to tweak only one thing at a time.

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  • Greetings all! A couple of folks suggested I take a look at this month's contest. I'm still new to this, so I figured why not get some feedback. Here's a first draft. Let me know your thoughts.

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  • Corvyn said:

    Greetings all! A couple of folks suggested I take a look at this month's contest. I'm still new to this, so I figured why not get some feedback. Here's a first draft. Let me know your thoughts.

    First off welcome to the newbie challenge thread Corvyn!! There is a couple of things I would like to say about you render, 1. great start, 2. with an expression like he has he should be looking like he is running either away from someone/thing or towards someone/thing. 3. His sword is looking like it is an emmisive so much light bouncing off it. 4. not sure really if it fog atop his boots or not if it is it really needs to be a bit thinner, 5. Maybe you could put a moon in the sky with a bit more light coming down on you charactor.

    Again I say welcome and great starting render

  • First off welcome to the newbie challenge thread Corvyn!! There is a couple of things I would like to say about you render, 1. great start, 2. with an expression like he has he should be looking like he is running either away from someone/thing or towards someone/thing. 3. His sword is looking like it is an emmisive so much light bouncing off it. 4. not sure really if it fog atop his boots or not if it is it really needs to be a bit thinner, 5. Maybe you could put a moon in the sky with a bit more light coming down on you charactor.

    Again I say welcome and great starting render

    Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I've made some adjustments as suggested. Changed the expression so he didn't look so panicked. Found the surface of the sword was emmisive, so I turned it off. Then realized I couldn't see the sword, so I gave him a different one. Also gave him a matching shield. Got rid of the fog altogether, added a moon, and changed the lighting around. That last one was my first time trying 3-point lighting, so I made adjustments to it. 

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  • unLight865unLight865 Posts: 95
    edited September 2016

    The DOF is strong.  I realize you plan on adding more buildings but did you consider a different camera angle and concentrating on the Dragon and the building?  Just a suggestion.

    Hm, I'll consider it - Thanks for the idea smiley. Didn't yet get to do much on it, though frown.

    ( And the DOF was strong by intent there - for testing it... It won't necessarily stay that way. )

     

     

    ...oh, and @Holloko :

    As I already said, add some reflectivity to the water (in the surfaces pane)

    - but, what I had forgotten: Also add some refraction to get the translucency that water should have ( though you'll have to see how much of it you want... ).

     

     

    [edit:

    Urgh sad - wtf have I done wrong just now??? I copied the camera, changed the viewing-angle and a few other things about the camera parameters (maybe alo render settings?) - and though the drawing-view looks completely ok, I only get black images when I render!? - *ouch*  sad !

     

    Oh, and how could I best control the width of my image? The flames were set up somewhat hastily back when I made them, so there's a portion (at the left upper side of the house) I'd like to keep out of the picture, at least for now...   ]

     

    [edit#2:

    Here are 2 new pics - the first is an overview ( so no DOF here ) from the scene in its old state - though it somehow stopped rendering at 18% :

    ...and the 2nd is a save from shortly before the 'blackout' ( this time I stopped the render @ 29% myself - it simply took too long ) - focus is on the dragon and behind the flames, which look very cartoony... :

    ( and for those who are wondering about the brightness - there's a linear pointlight in the scene - I think I added it to resemble the moon, but since I wanted a dark scene, I'd propably better turn it off in future renders )

    On both you can see the part I wanted/want to leave out - the flames at the rear ( from the dragons' view ) section of the roof are a side-effect and shouldn't really be there. The "piercing flames" on the backside of the 1st level of the building though do look good I think - though they aren't too logical...   ]

     

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    Post edited by unLight865 on
  • I think I'm pretty much happy with the lighting as is, might knock down the exposure that's about it. Thoughts?

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