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FilaToon / Cell shaded rendering with Filament

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  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,462

    I love that Filatoon shaders allowes me to breath new life into older assets

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  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Phloki3d said:

    As someone who was deep into NPR and anime styles in Daz already, Filatoon has been such a dream to play around with and so far it works great for what I need it for

    Yeah. That's how I feel too.

  • Space JingorohSpace Jingoroh Posts: 170

    benniewoodell said:

    Space Jingoroh said:

    　There are so many things in FilaToom that I don't understand.
    　I would like to see a systematized instruction manual for use.

    Looks to me like you have a pretty good handle on it! This is one of the best renders I've seen yet. 

    　Thank you very much.
    　But right now I am still in the stage where I am not so much making something good, as I am fooling around to make sure the not-so-good parts don't show.
    　There are still a lot of problems. 

  • HighElfHighElf Posts: 365

  • battfieldbattfield Posts: 75

    I went to filatoon rendering with G8.

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  • Pax AsteriaePax Asteriae Posts: 445

    TheNathanParable said:

    Pax Asteriae said:

    Had some fun rendering in layers then stacking them in Photoshop with various levels of blur.

    I'm so glad to see you're still active Pax! Great work as always!

    Nice to see you here too! Yep, still noodling around, haha. Thank you.

    Your artwork is as incredible as ever! laugh Looking forward to seeing more~ :) 

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,479
    edited October 26

    FilaToon render with a little postwork in the Gimp.

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    Post edited by Artini on
  • csaacsaa Posts: 824
    edited October 26

    I was wondering how FilaToon could be used in a manga-esque B&W workflow. Thanks,  SolitarySandpiper, for sharing the render below. I can certainly see FilaToon as a useful tool to that end. At the least, the output can be a good starting point.

    Cheers!

    SolitarySandpiper said:

    Quick Monochromatic conversion. 

    Post edited by csaa on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,654
    edited October 26

    The shaders are a lot of fun!

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    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Filatoon is proving to be exactly what I was wanting. For the first time in ages, I'm adding stuff to my wishlist left and right.

  • Phloki3dPhloki3d Posts: 138

    Love seeing everyone's personal styles with Filatoon! And I agree @vrba79 it's nice to be super excited about Daz again!

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  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 963

    Loving all the renders and different styles on display! smiley

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Its transformed my workflow for the better. Multiple Genesis 9 characters? WITH scenery?! Sounds like an impossible dream doesn't it? Not so with Filatoon.

     

     

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,479
    edited October 26

    I can only agree with @SapphireBlue what a variety of styles.

    FilaToon brings so much fun to Daz Studio.

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    Post edited by Artini on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,355
    edited October 27

    So let's get this straight: G9 is supposedly all about photorealism. Characters take up a few to several hundred mb hard drive space for textures(!!). And we're all deliriously happy about a shader and render system that flattens all that to nothing and looks like cartoons. Has there been any improvement to normal Filament rendering?

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,355
    edited October 27

    TesseractSpace said:

    I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

    How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

    Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,462

    I dunno, if you experiemtent and play around with settings you can have things like AO and Transparency maps with the Filatoon shaders

     

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  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,902

    Torquinox said:

    TesseractSpace said:

    I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

    How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

    Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

    Filament is pretty primitive renderer. I think we can not expect Daz to massively improve that in terms of realism, or at all really. For one I doubt the expertise is there to develop a full blown renderer. Or if there is then the resources surely aren't there for such a massive untertaking.

    I think the reality has set in that Filament wasn't being used much. So this move with the toon shader was nothing short of brilliant IMO. Now Filament has a purpose, PA's have new avenues to sell toon stuff and many users who are into manga/anime etc. are happy with the new possiblities.

    Forget about Filament for realism. I really doubt that will ever happen. Use Iray for that or maybe find a workflow with UE5 for realistic real time rendering.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,355

    It's not a Daz alone thing. https://github.com/google/filament

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    Torquinox said:

    It's not a Daz alone thing. https://github.com/google/filament

    Given how long it seems to take to implement improvements in Iray, I doubt they'll ever get around to implementing the full capabilities of Filament unless the interest in Filatoon is high enough to justify Filament improvement.

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,395
    I was gonna say, filament would probably be used more of daz implemented all it's features.
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,355

    Sorel said:

    I was gonna say, filament would probably be used more of daz implemented all it's features.

    This ^ 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,113

    Torquinox said:

    TesseractSpace said:

    I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

    How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

    Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

    "increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag" - part of, not the sole purpose.

    If you don't get it (or get it but don't want it) that is finr, but clearly other people do get and want it.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,355

    Well now Richard has spoken. No need to discuss it further.

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,056

    Torquinox said:

    TesseractSpace said:

    I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

    How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

    Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

    At the risk of sounding blunt, why are you here? I understand you might be frustrated with Filament, but complaining about the lack of photorealism in a thread dedicated to toon rendering (and even describing everyone who likes as "delirious" and likening it to a plague) is hardly going to get the results you want.

    Also, while Filament originally shipped without the ability to handle cast shadows (hence the cool SickleYield rigged shadows product), it has since updated to allow for cast shadows. Most (if not all) of my FilaToon renders so far use cast shadows from both direct lights and spotlights (point lights still don't cast shadows as far as I know).

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,015

    Thanks to Rareth for pointing me at how to use SSAO!

    Though I think I will still combine it with the specific control SY's rigged shadow provides. (use SSAO for more generalized/environmental AO, then rigged shadows for specific things I want)

     

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,056

    Yeah, I noticed when making my Big Boi Bathing render that the SSAO seems to only appear on surfaces affected by the HDRI, which with FilaToon means turning up the "Environment Weight" surface parameter.

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,056
    edited October 27

    FilaToon really helps breathe new life into Sakura 8! Gallery link: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6736226870624256#gallery=newest&page=1&image=1353306

    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    TheNathanParable said:

    FilaToon really helps breathe new life into Sakura 8! Gallery link: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6736226870624256#gallery=newest&page=1&image=1353306

     

     

    WOW!!!

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