Graph Editor gone
WendyLuvsCatz
Posts: 38,169
I discovered the graph editor has vanished since my last update
Release and Beta
is it something amis on my installation or has it moved to a menu setting I cannot find?
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The intefrace has chenged. There is a menu item and a button now to activate it. I'm not at my computer where I can get you a screenshiot, but do a search. There have been previous discussions of the change, including in the Highlights thread, I beleive.
There are two ways to access it - at least.
One is a little button on the botton "Key Editor"
The other that I am aware of is in the right-click Timeline pane tab > Key Editor
There's a button of "Key Graph" on the bottom tooblar of Timeline, near the center...
there was
that's my problem, it's gone
Ah ? Not there as below ?
oh I see an icon now not a window edge tab
...and the keys themselves are a Lot easier to work with! We can even drag collapsed keys along the timeline now! :)
that I could do but sadly I didn't save before trying a few and it has been unresponding for over 2 hours and looks like I will lose all my work, just walked away
I am still on DS 4.12 on my main PC work station.
But I recently upgraded my Imac version of DS to 4.22 because it is wise to run the latest DS version for my commercial product testing.
Anyway at this point the Daz native graph editor is superior, in very aspect, to the old “GraphMate” plugin from Gofigure
This is because Daz studio now has the ability to reset the graph view which is a major shortcoming of the GoFigure graphMate addon as it was possible to easily get your spline graphs “lost out in the hinterlands” requiring a complete application restart to reset the default view.
So with your newly updated 4.22, don't you love the new keys? I find them a Lot easier to work with than before.
Thanks for explaining the Graph Editor/GraphMate differences. I do like our Key Graph.
I've walked away to wait and see if something comes back and never had success. So when that happens I bite the bullet, End Process and start all over from scratch, this time remembering to make saves - especially before a dForce simulation, which will makes the saving process Much Longer.
Luckily, I have a cool little dog (A Princess from Spain - My Strawberry Kangaroo) who loves to take walks - even if it's just a short one. So when I save my scene after simulating Rosie's hair, I ask Chicha if she wants to come with me for a short walk - and she always does! :)
@Dartanbeck
I don’t actually create any original animation in Daz studio since it has no IK system and I Don’t render there
I only use DS to test my products for version compatibility.
I animate in Blender and Autodesk Maya,with occasional assist from Iclone
All three have a world class
graph editor tools with proper filtering and keyframe reduction tools ESSENTIAL for working with imported mocap
However there is the free "decimate ' script by Mcasual, for reducing the timeline keyframes on baked aniblocks to somehting actually mangable in the DS graph editor
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts/mcjdecimate-for-ds-12-3
DS does have an IK system. It may not suit your needs but it does exist.
I've tried the Decimate script once and will never use it again. Yuck.
I go through the actions by hand. Much better results and is actually a pretty quick thing in Studio.
Essential? Essential for who?
I use Imported Mocap All The Time! Every single day! Every Single Day!
Beyond that, I also take that mocap data and make it my own. aniMate 2 is an Essential part of my workflow as is 3D Universe's Body2Hip script.
Armed with those and my own custom control dials that anyone can make quickly on the fly, Daz Studio has everything I need to get good animations.
I'm really glad that those Essentials are Not truly essential at all, because I hate the subscription thing. Hate it! And iClone is waaaaaay too pricey for me to get Only for it's wonderful animation tools.
I've just recently bought 3D Universe's Pose Architect products for my target figures. Wow! Add those to my own custom dials and I can really change any mocap to something that perfectly suits my needs! All kinds of torso and hip movements that keep the feet planted in their proper position - as long as we don't take it too far - just priceless!!! I've played with almost all of the dials so far and really like it a Lot. More on that in future articles and videos.
Anyone new to animation reading this:
Know that you really can animate in Daz Studio. In fact, it's probably the most fun sort of animating that there is!
Here's a great place to start learning your Wonderful New Adventure!
Visit Dartanbeck.com for a Whole World of CG Filmmaking topics and articles!
The Power of aniMate 2
A new page at my website
A truly wonderful experience of animating in Daz Studio awaits, and this page will help you delve right in with ideas, links, images and videos
Along with the actual User Manual for aniMate 2 viewable/downloadable right on the page!
Links to products specifically designed with animation in mind as well as direct links back to this forum thread if you need help with any of it - I monitor this thread manually and I also get an email if someone responds - so you can expect to get answers in a timely manner.
I'll also be adding subpages to this one that will expand our learning experience within the realms of aniMate 2 and animating in Daz Studio in general - because in my world, animating in Daz Studio almost Always involves aniMate 2.
The Power of aniMate 2
A new page at my website - Come on in an Join the Fun!!!
Quote from Dartanbeck
Have to agree with you on those. They animate great as well, just save as animated pose
Great Tools - Great Fun!!! :)
I just rendered a test animation using Pose Architect to really work an idle animation from Mixamo. She turns and looks the other way and shifts her weight from side to side all while breathing heavy because she just vanquished a bunch of cybertron warriors.
It turned out Fantastic!!!
3DU... Thanks Man! I owe you Again!!! :)
I used to manually cull key frames by hand in the old poser graph editor it was tedious.
The Decimate script ,when used correctly, saves a alot a manual grunt work in making a specific channel on the Daz spline graph easier to edit.
The trick is not to over cull the frame number or it will “flatten” your spline .
Essential to any animator who wants to make refinements to specific section of frames on the spline WITHOUT those frames being packed with key frames fore and aft pinning down the spline
this is particularly useful for animators who work with a VARIETY of different Characters to tell actual stories
(not just one petite girl in every animation running about, never even speaking)
Some stories may need Diverse figures with different body dimensions ,like amazing the Dragonhide PCS model ,which is a highly morphed G8 figure,
https://www.daz3d.com/dragonhide-pcs-bundle
Many canned aniblocks will work not correctly with the Dragonhide PCS ( or other highly morphed figures) figure by default so you will need to edit the motions and slogging through hundreds,or thousands of key frames in the graph editor to adjust only a few makes ZERO sense.
This is why key frame culling exists in all of the major 3D animation programs.
The FREE decimate script adds this feature to Daz studio for those who actually learn to use it correctly
Of course Ideally a proper non destructive animation layer system
to override your graph editor is the best way to edit mocap
Absolutely. That part of it IS essential. But we can do that easily right in Daz Studio. I mean... it's simple graph editing.
Since the latest update especially. Those new keys are so easy to work with - I'm overjoyed.
I don't mean to sound cynical, but I find it really easy to grab a few keys wherever I like - even Ctrl/Alt selecting to add or remove from the selection, and the graph editor ("Key Graph" is it called?) works just fine.
Add to that aniMate 2, with it's cubic interpolation to squash any overshooting and we've got a real animation toolset here.
Say what you want about me and my One Character. Just because she's all we ever see doesn't meant that she's all I ever work with. I just like her the best.
Although I haven't tried it yet, I already know that Pose Architect is going to work wonders on my Dragonhide PCS.
Nice jab! Oh my guts hurt!!!
Here's the thing. any of those "blanket" key rippers are lazy and can have the tendency to remove where they shouldn't and leave stuff that should be removed. Mark-One Eyeball! Find where edit points should Truly be, and work with the keys according to what's really going on, not a math sequence - but... hey man, you do you and I'll keep loving the show.
Seriously though. Motion capture data contains a lot of nuances. Allowing for a mathematical function to rip out two, three, five... frames in between everything starting from the beginning, what "Correctly" are you talking about? You mean: "Okay I need to make sure I keep frame 38, 76, and 83 intact... so how many keys should I let this thing rip out?" Whatever. If you really need to make that many changes, I suggest using my custom dial method. You can leave all of your data intact and use tweeners between changes. It's beautifully predictable and you won't lose those wonderful little nuances in the actor's performance.
The funniest part about that statement is that, that is exactly my argument for Not using key-ripping scripts! LOL
As for the Blender layers, I just gave a talk on doing that exact same thing using aniMate 2 - except that I think aniMate 2's looks like its more elegant to work with. Additionally, we can fade our adjustments in and out with the click of a button. I'm sure the Blender one can too - I just didn't see it being used.
Really. At any time we can send our animation work back and forth between Daz Studio's (really quite excellent now) timeline and aniMate 2, which can be very powerful and FAST!
Add to that the philosophy that I demonstrate in my Dynamic Character Animation course and it gets faster, more powerful, and a lot more fun. adding Pose Architect made that even more cool and powerful by being able to do weight shifts without losing foot positioning (must by watched, or we can mess with foot placement - but in many cases it works like a dream) and do global body shifts for certain actions - in and out as the animation requires - so freaking cool!
Your video are really cool. I've been a fan forever. Keep doing what you do. It's really cool stuff.
I'm just here to tell the world that those folks who have been scaring people away from animating in Daz Studio were wrong - even if they might not have known it.
Yes, the way the timeline was (was), when we were told that animation in Daz Studio is a total distaster, it was really easy to quickly believe it and move on.
But dig a little deeper? Oh man! All that time spent trying to figure out how to work the armatures, convert correctly, work out materials, pay for some special render engine... that time spent towards learning to animate in Daz Studio would have revealed that - oh... look. I guess we really can animate in Daz Studio!
The tiny investment of aniMate 2 is Priceless!!! That makes all the difference in the World!
I've been guilty of buying aniMate 2 waaaay back when, but believing that we couldn't animate in DS, I mostly only used it for creating new aniBlocks from blending others together and tweaking them a bit.
But when I started digging into what aniMate 2 really has in it... Oh Man!!! Talk about animation POWER!!!
The Power of aniMate 2 resource information at Dartanbeck.com - don't miss out on a much friendlier animation experience that allows for less time tinkering and trying to figure stuff out, and more time for having fun animating!
The influence of the animation layers can be keyframed
as I mentioned in the video.
Cubic interpolation ( also known as Auto clamping)
is specifically designed to prevent “spline graph overshoot
when you move a key on a sparsely populated spline graph.
Baked mocap populates the graph with a key frame on every frame.
Manually deleting those frame is fine if you like doing the work
but Key frame culling exist in Maya Blender and C4D ,Iclone because CG professionals who make actual films with stories demand them.
they do not blindly “rip keys”
granted the freebie script from Mcasual
is a bit primitive so you have to start small but it is undoable in DS (Crtl-Z)
But in the pro apps it is a literal filter slider when you move to the right you reduce frames-to the left you RESTORE THEM.
Mcasual actually has some great animation helpers on his free site
for the older figures G-1 G-2 figures
that are naturally compatible with Mixamo (unlike G3,8,9).
Not sure why you are so vehemently opposed to this one FREE helper script
while your commercial course( and pipeline) appears only fully realized if people
spend $200 USD on third party plugins, that are often broken by DS/Figure updates, before even buying any aniblocks
Animate 2 (unlocked) 61.95
Bone Minion for Genesis 9 Poses for Genesis 8 and 8.1-$28 USD
LimbStick for Genesis 3 + 8 -$25.95
LimbStick for Genesis 9 -$25.00
pose-architect-for-genesis-8-males-$27.95
pose-architect-for-genesis-8-Females-$27.95
3DU’s Daz Studio Animation Tools - Set 1-30.95
At any rate any plans give Rosie a voice in 2024?
AI voices have become good to the point of being actually useful
(every voice in My “Ghost in the shell” 50 minute feature film was AI generated)
you should consider adding tutorials on facial animation
(speaking characters)
and showcasing the various Daz studio options
Anilip 2
mimic (32 bit DS required but free)
Face mojo
pose recorder.
Much easier to tell stories with spoken dialogue
I love mcasual scripts. He has some really nice work there - absolutely agreed!
Yeah, all this stuff can be an investment. Daz + membership helps immensely even though that stuff isn't Daz +. The sales events members see throughout the year cut those costs Waaaaaaaay down. Just wish list them and keep an eye out.
The cost of setting up the tools we create in my Dynamic Character Animation course cost nothing but a wee bit of time. I even demonstrate how quickly I can do it as I show more and more examples - and I'm still distracted a bit by talking and working - so it's even faster once you get into it. It's fun to do, takes very little time, and has Graph Editor-like capabilities.
Instead of deleting any keyframes (unless there are glitches that we want to remove) simply make a dial that does the changes we need to make. Making that change with the dial places a single key frame all by itself in it's own line - so no clutter.
The way I demonstrate it, I keep my timeline view on my Pose controls line and work out adjustments to the pose of the figure along the same frames in the beginning.
As I need to start getting deeper, I simply open the Pose Controls hierarchy so I can see individual dials along their own line - it's very speedy and works exactly the same as shaping a spline in the graph.
The really handy thing is that those keys are So Visible - and the mocap data is all still on its own down below. Like I said, if any of that gets in the way of what I want to do, I just select problem areas and remove them and set the interpolation to my needs. Handy - Fast.
I think we might see Rosie speak this year. It's not high on my priority list. The Real Rosie and I did some tests with PoseRecorder and... I really like that!!! We'll see how it turns out when that time comes.
I'm more interested in putting Rosie (the 3D version) to motion with my music. So higher on the list is to make more music to go along with Rosie.
I actually love how Coyote and The Road Runner tell their stories! :)
I thought about doing something along those lines too. But after seeing the Real Rosie's performance on Rosie 8, and hearing her voice with it... yeah... I dropped the idea of holding up funny signs.
I still consider myself very new to animating in Daz Studio - so I'm really only just getting started. I'm working out the hair right now as I am not happy with the way it looks and reacts in my latest videos. I think I may have it worked out now - it's looking a Lot nicer - moving fluidly, less constraint from collision manipulation, etc.,
I've also made an improved "Breathe" dial that includes subtle joint rotations. Tests have looked Great so far.
A beefy orc-like monster thinks he can take her out, so he's starting to bully her. She let it go for a short while, hoping he'd give up and leave her alone, but he didn't. So it's Go Time. Oh... looky here... he brought a weapon! <she snickers and goes to the dead knight and borrows his sword for a bit>
So the interaction between the swords had been a fun adventure. using the dials I make, I can use motion capture to run the base animation. Then when the swords are supposed to clash, the dials help me work that out really nice! Just that slight pause from metal-on-metal before recoiling back. Tests are looking pretty cool so far.
Getting Pose Architect on sale - when she does her confident stance, I can have her rock more weight onto her right foot, rolling her hip to the right, keeping her torso with the gravity. Brilliant! But there's more dials to help shift the shoulders and/or the hip a bit to match with what's going on - so that helps too. I bet I could make a belly dance animation with Pose Architect alone!
LimbStick is really cool too. LightWave had this feature so I'm sure that Maya does too. When the Orc grabs her to through her down, he can actually lock onto her forearm during the time he's supposed to, and then just let go.
Using aniMate 2's Parent Constraint, I had Genesis 8 Male Gorilla - sized to portray King Kong grasp Rosie from the binding poles and walk away with her. Then I did something stupid and crashed DS before I saved. Drats! It was fun to do then, it'll be fun to do again. Didn't take too long.
I was just watching a fellow's comparison between Blender and Daz Studio. Kind of an odd thing to do, and I'm not sure he really uses either - just from some of the crazy things he says.
Personally, I don't think there's much to compare.
Blender is a path to many professional techniques and skills.
Daz Studio is an amazing tool for posing and rendering - especially wonderful for illustrators.
Both can be a great hobby.
For me, I love the fact that I can buy something for very little cash and pour it into Daz Studio and it just freaking works!
I know how to model, rig (Novice/Intermediate), UV Unwrap and map, do texture work... I can do a lot within all of this. That's how I see myself in Blender.
In Daz Studio, I just leave that to these fine folks that are giving it to me for my annual Daz + dues. When I saw the default HDRI light up Teen Josie 8 with her Iray materials for the first time - I made up my mind that I just want to play with this stuff now.
Carrara is an Amazing suite. I love it! everything has animation capabilites built right into it - it's freaking amazing! Like Mixamo, however, it's true compatibility ends with Genesis 2 - but even it isn't 100% up-to-snuff as Auto-Fit doesn't know the difference between one Genesis generation and the next - so Autofit works from other figure, but not between Genesis 1 and 2.
But when I came to Studio, I just started plunking in environments and rendering them. Wow. Nice! bring in my characters and animate them. But in those early days, that was tough, coming from Carrara - or any other animation software. It took a little workflow analysis and good ol' thinkin' to get onto the path I'm on now. And with all of the benefits gained from Daz Studio in everything else - I don't see myself stopping now. Too Freaking Fun!!!
Oh my... am I still talking?
On the other hand, in Blender an artist can get by without buying anything.
We can construct everything we need and set it all up how we need to use it. That's absolute Magic!
I did think about going that route too - in those days before I tried Josie in Iray.
Even after, when Daz 3D came out with all of their bridges, I tried both the Daz 3D bridge and Diffeo. Impressive.
I tried for quite some time to reproduce Rosie's hair before being reminded by my frustration that I really don't want these headaches anymore.
So that was when I took that "Figure out how to do stuff" side of me and instead focussed on my new method of animating in Daz Studio. The epiphany that drove me to start making those dials literally changed my life! I often forget to sleep I'm having so much fun!!!
aniMate 2 continues to fill me with animation Glee!
Introducing the sword back into Rosie's hand, I converted even more of my legacy and Mixamo animations to Genesis 8.
In doing so, as usual, I noticed all kinds of great motion capture for the arms, head, and torso. So I baked my new aniBlocks back into the timeline, selected the keys I want to keep - copy selected keys, then cleared the figure's pose from animation before pasting those keys back in. Instant Partial. I cover this in both courses because it's an essential part of my workflow.
Wow! What a Blast! I mean, it's one thing to remove the key frames from a limb or two and hand-key frame in new movements onto them. But it's another to be able to add actual motion capture data to them from completely different sources!
Back when I was animating in Carrara I wrote an article about doing this and I called it "Hybrid aniMation".
In Carrara it's kind of opposite, however. Instead of bringing aniBlocks in as NLA clips of data, the aniBlock importer empties the aniBlock into key frames within Carrara's incredible Sequencer, after which we can turn whichever keys we want into NLA (non-linear animation) clips and work with them very much as we do in aniMate 2.
For partials like this, I'd import them at a different time in the sequencer to ensure I don't mess things up, then select all of the keys I want to use as my partial and drag them in where I've removed the original keys from the previous aniBlock.
Well, with the latest update in Daz Studio, we can do that here too! We can simply add an aniBlock further down the track in aniMate's pane, bake to timeline and use aniMate's pane as a guide to where our 'actual' base motion ends.
Now we have all of these keys in the timeline. Select the ones we want to replace from the base animation and remove them, then select those limbs from the subsequent set of keys and drag them into place! The previous builds of Daz Studio wouldn't let me slide collapsed keys along the timeline like this - at least I was never successful at it.
Like I mentioned before about this latest update - Game Changer!!!
To simplify this whole process, I would put space between the base animation and the secondary (and beyond?) aniBlocks in aniMate before baking. Then, once baked, I'd select All of the keys between the two (or more) blocks, using the aniMate pane to guide my scrubber placement, and remove them, creating a visible gap.
Creating Partial aniBlocks is such a quick and easy process, which also gives me a nice preview as I hover over it in the library, that I will continue to work that way. The ability to preview motions in aniMate is a magical power that we don't have in Carrara, so sometimes I'd have DS open just for previewing! ;)
Still, I know that this new ability is going to come in handy. And just knowing that it's available, I'll definitely find practical uses for it - and probably very soon!
LOL!!! It's fun to use a rather life-like walk (a full motion capture instead of a cycle) and have Rosie very easily reach back and draw her Aeon Soul Legend Sword from the scabbard on her back! Then she can continue walking as usual or I can add another partial after that of any of the many sword-holding partials I've just created - both hands out in front, many different versions, or perhaps both hands recoiled into a 'ready-to-attack' position, or even swing the sword around a bit.
After trying a few, um... yeah... it's working Great, as expected! :)
I love this stuff!!!
In case the term "Canned Animations" is bothering anyone, I'd just like to clear something up about that.
Some folks buy voice tracks recorded by actual actors. Some use text-to-speech. Why? Because they don't have the time, money, or availability to have their own hired actors come in (or otherwise) and record their script.
To me, these solutions are often a lot more obvious and even distracting than a true performance - the exception being the option of buying voice recordings from real actors.
The term "Canned Animations" is referring to (as far as I've gathered) the aniBlock packs and BVH, FBX, etc., motion files that we can buy and add to our libraries.
Some of those might be animated by hand, while those from GoFigure, Reisormocap and others are true motion captures derived from real actors being hired to perform inside a motion capture studio. In the two names I just dropped, the process of retargeting those motion captures to Daz Figures is a serious, professional job.
In contrast, the motion packs that I used to sell here at Daz 3D were key framed by hand and done in a very generic fashion.
All of the motions that I use from Mocap Online, GoFigure, Reisormocap and others here at Daz 3D are those professionally captured motions of real actors.Some of the others are reworked and fine-tuned captures from Mixamo, I think. And the motions at Mixamo are also professionally captures motions of actors.
So when I'm using the aniBlocks I've purchased from Daz 3D, that's more akin to someone buying a voice performance from a real actor than something like using Text-to-Speech. It's not a some generic thing. These aniBlocks were created from the imaginations of Directors who endeavor to provide their customers with motions that others might find interesting and useful.
Reisormocap stood out from the crowd for me back when I was first getting into this. The way the arms and hands had that natural sway to them - very casual and natural. There's also a Massive assortment of different Packs of them related to a certain idea - Sci-Fi Moves, Office Moves, Salutes, High Fantasy, etc.,
Within those packs comes a really large assortment of actions.
GoFigure was the first I've known, and I've collected all of them. Their variety is also immense and starts delving into things like Bathroom and Bedroom motions. Gaming room and Park activities.
BoneTech3D comes in with the more game-like structure, where we combine many short actions into a complete scene of them.
Mocap Online is new to me and I love all of the collections I've purchased so far, and Havanalibere's are truly wonderful to work with as well.
So now we can take what these directors have accomplished with their actors, and combine them into what our visions are demanding of us.
I can grab the arm, neck, and head motions from GoFigure's Bathroom collection - "Combing Hair" and make a partial of it.
Now, when The Fonze is strutting through town or into the Moonshine Diner, at any time I want, he can whip out his comb and run it through his hair - and that's just a tiny example.
So please don't be put-off by those demeaning terms. If you need motions for your actors and don't have the means to hire them yourself along with a professional (or otherwise) motion capture studio, don't even think twice about it. Head to the Daz 3D store and check out the wonders that await your adventures. Check out Mixamo. And don't think for a second that you're not getting quality.
It's like buying a collection of poses, but these move.
There is a new freebie script over at Renderosity that converts poses and animations from G1,2,3,8 to Genesis 9
better than bone minion and FREE!!!!
“Genesis 1/2/3/8 pose preset conversion script for Genesis 9.
This script converts .DUF pose presets (including presets with multiple frames) from older figure generations to Genesis 9.
Select a Genesis 9 figure, select a pose preset in the Content Library or Smart Content and run the script.”
I can easily retarget any bespoke, Iclone created animations ,made for G8 in iclone,
and convert them to G9 inside Daz studio with a single click
for unlimited Custom Animation Products at clients request for G9.
2024 is looking to be a lucrative year!!
Fantastic Wolf!!!
Bummer it's only for Genesis 9, but That is Freaking Awesome!
Don't worry Riversoft Art, I still use Genesis 8 and earlier, so I'll still be buying the rest of my Bone Minion Bundles! ;)
Hopefully someday here I'll be able to put together a new PC build and start playing around with the Amazing Genesis 9!
meh I cannot get to Renderosity at the moment
grabbed, my Bone Minion for Gen4 so still useful as best animations are legacy
@WendyLuvsCatz
Typically any legacy Gen4/Mill4 animations work out of the box for genesis 1,2 and from there you can move them directly up to G9 with this Rendo script.
It works GREAT
I tested it in DS 4.12 and the 4.22 general release on Mac OSX and windows the Rendo guy "n_alexandru " did a great job here.
So now Genesis 9 has FULL, >>Low cost<< animation support in Daz studio
from all of your existing Mill4/G1,2,3,8 motion data sets you may have acquired,paid or free, in the past.
As well as full compatibility with the ENTIRE Mixamo library ( for a one time cost of $18 USD)