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So far what could be the reason they're not releasing a Linux version? Since it's quite requested
Probably because it isn't that simple. Neither of the people quoted has access to the code for Daz Studio so their information is not securely based.
It also means another version to support. I don't know if this is a large enough market to support and maintain it. More and more Steam games run under Linux, so perhaps it will grow. Though if a former boss of mine is correct, Windows will become a UI over the top of Linux. There is already a full Ubuntu distribution under the hood of Windows 10. MS SQL Server now runs on Linux Server as well. Who knows.
Graphics, particularly high performance graphics that is closer to the metal, is one of the last areas where I can't think of a good framework to hide the architectural differences. Although strict adherence to Qt's facilities can actually allow you to port an app by merely rebuilding it between Windows, OSX, and Linux, I don't think the rendering subsystem will port to Linux automagically; It'll require work. Work that Daz is not likely to invest in.
But the Open Source community would make quick work of it, just out of passion and love for Daz Studio.
From what I can ascertain, awareness of Linux isn't that high among most Daz users. Look how quiet this forum thread goes most the time, and the odd thread that pops up elsewhere in the forums usually doesn't garner much interest.
Also, could people post their software versions when they report problems running Daz. Studio version, Wine version (and whether using staging or not), Linux distro and release number (if release based). It really helps in trying to advise. Also indicate which GPU their systems based.
My Studio install is partially working at present, no Cuda, (and worse, no Opencl - I miss dForce, I don't mind no GPU rendering). Since Cuda/OpenCL isn't present, I've dropped back to Wine from Wine-Staging as studio on staging is a deal more problematic (rather a lot of blocked thread instances which hang the application). Maybe a little more undependable than used to be under Wine, (as opposed to staging) but still working. Archlinux, Wine 6-11, Nvidia 465.31-12, Studio version 4.15.0.2.
Problems since Wine 6.5 (I think, I had a creative dry-spell end of last year to start of this year and wasn't using Studio much for a few months). I'm waiting on the new Nvidia 470 driver update, see if things improve.
Interesting issue during Wine 5: Running studio, if clinfo wasn't run before running studio (on linux was enough), OpenCL wouldn't be detected at least after a fresh boot, so I put a call to clinfo into the bash script I use to launch studio before the wine run.
...yeah I've been on Rawb's Daz 5 thread and seeing a number of people who aren't over here, mentioning hopes for a Linux version.
Not looking to start an OS/platform feud but just stating facts. I've been watching W10 development since it's introduction 6 years ago and still say "nope". W11 will introduce a new and more painful issue in that one needs a pretty much a "state of the art" system to support it (minimum Intel 8th gen or AMD 3rd gen). That will mean older even fairly recent hardware will not make the grade. Part of the hope that I've seen in some posts is that this announcement by MS might spark interest on the part of Daz development to seriously look into Linux support as a lot of us will be left out in the cold who cannot afford a spanking new system.
Added to this, Nvidia will be dropping driver support for W7 and 8.1 this fall (even though 8.1 doesn't reach EOL until January 10th, 2023).
There are a couple of reasons for that. When people ask for a Linux version they mean a native Linux version, not something that runs on a Windows emulator. I look in here (this thread) from time to time but, from what I can see, a lot of the discussion is around getting DAZ Studio to work under WINE. I also gather (though I might have missed something important) that IRay doesn't render under WINE. So, if that's the case, I'm not interested. It is a fully working implementation under Linux that I want and I too doubt we will ever see that so I'm probably stuck with Windows.
Iray works on Linux with Wine, if only with Render fallback to CPU. Getting GPU renders has long been an issue and OpenCL support patchy, at least in my experience through Cuda.
For a while there (when studio 4.12 was the current version), if you still had a copy of Studio 4.10, you could replace the iray plugin with the older (4.10) version by copying files over to the 4.12 install directory and get Iray running on GPU.
I have been checking the situation in this thread also from time to time to see if someone had managed to get DS running (with Iray) in Linux since DS is the last Windows-only program that I use and I want to find a way to continue using DS when the inevitable happens and it doesn't run on Windows 7 anymore.
Since the hardware on my current rig has been built to run DS, I would use whatever version of Linux if there was one that did run DS (with Iray).
Is Microsoft taking a page out of the Apple book? I'm still on an older iMac that can't get OS updates. Studio and Final Cut still work and those are the last two Mac programs I use.
They have been jealous of Apple for the past quarter of a century, but so far the user has had the opportunity to take control of his/her own computer. What has been written about W11, gives the impression that they as the producers of the OS, will be the ones that grant you permission on what you are allowed to do with it - Provided that you have first bought a computer that meets their requirements... Why would a camera be a requirement for installing an operating system?...
At least for us, that went with the Dos prompt some 30+ years ago instead of the graphical alternative, it seems the time has come to find an alternative if one still wants to be in control of ones own computer.
Iray renders have worked through Wine since the 64bit version of Studio became runable on Wine between first and second quarter 2017 (I spent the first six months using the 32bit studio). Rendering using the GPU has been unreliable though.
I find CPU rendering in Iray something I can live with, but I've a Ryzen 7, get acceptable renders in anything from a half to two hours depending on scene.
dForce also worked until recently with wine-staging (staging has a load of extra experimental patches, mostly for games but also OpenCL support that standard wine lacked). I read that a recent wine release now includes OpenCL support, but that might be when things stopped working with Studio.
Currently, with Wine-staging installed, Studio run doesn't even reach the UI, just hangs, but Wine works, although no OpenCL so no dForce at current :(
What we have is people who want a full-blown Linux version of Studio but are having to use what's currently available and helping others while we wait and hope that Daz will get off their butt and put out a full Linux version
The figures for domestic Linux desktop 'market share' (usually somewhere between 1 and 2 percent), even if that figure is an underestimate, it'd certainly not convince anyone it was a market worth time or money, and going by Help:about, the Daz dev team isn't that big.
...exactly.
I had Mint on a business notebook and found it to be really nice.
From what I have read here in the past working with Daz on Wine seemed like sort of like the Apollo 13 crew's approach to rigging a command module air filter to work on the LEM. It sufficed, but not the most ideal situation.
Of course the argument is always that the number of Linux users would be small even in comparison to Mac, but given the hardware requirements of W11, if a Linux version was offered there could be a reasonable number of people who would migrate rather than have to purchase a brand new powerful state of the art system (particularly a new GPU at the inflated prices today).
I'm no programmer so I have to ask: if Windows is becoming just a UI running on a Linux base, why is a port assumed to be unlikely or too difficult?
That one or two percent user base for Linux is more down to corporate strategy and marketing forming assumptions in the minds of the public. Linux is seen as Geekware and only the characters in Mr Robot have a clue how to work with it. The fact that MacOS has always been a Unix variant is lost in the marketing speak.
EDIT: I think that Linux geeks like to encourage the impression that they are an echelon higher than mere Windows users though.
That's "OLD SCHOOL " thinking and even though it still exists some it's not as prevalent as it used to be as Linux has become very easy to use
You answer my point as though I were ignorant which kind of proves my point. Linux was, for me at least, pretty easy to use but then I had a background in Unix (I worked for HP and worked on HP-UX servers as far back as the early 90's). Nevertheless, I have known many Linux enthusiasts and have kept in touch with some and I still see that attitude of elitism that is so common in the computer industry. As you say, Linux should not be seen as too geeky for the average user but I think that there are still a lot of what you call "old school" elitists who like to foster that image. When I fisrt saw Comic Book Guy in the Simpsons I thought - I know that guy, I worked with him!. Today, my son is saying the same thing about people he knows and works with (and he is a software developer).
Interesting comparison, but a little extreme. Installing and getting Studio to run needed absolutely no complex configurations or work-arounds that many other windows programs often need on linux with wine, and several of the 'it'll run, but' caveats have dissappeared since 2016, when the 32bit version only would run.
I've no doubt W11 will prompt a few more to switch, we might even see desktop linux advance an entire percent in usage figures.
There seems absolutely no reason for MS to insist on the new hardware requirements, I've no doubt they'll eventually walk it back before the official rollout later in the year, like they've done with other unpopular mandates.
I imagine Daz, even if they thought they could manage to develop a linux build, would doubly baulk at the support overhead of suddenly inviting their users to optionally switch to an OS with such a radically different paradigm, with so many versions and distros.
A fair few linux pundits have suggested that as a likely eventual scenario. They are all mostly more knowledgeable than me, so I've no basis to challenge them. Personally though, I don't see Ms adopting a linux base with an Ms desktop layer as many suggest, they'll want to keep reaping software licences, and the Ms desktop UI doesn't have the value. More likely to utilise the FreeBSD stack, where they can do what they like with the code.
The figure is usually garnered from Statcounter or netmarketshare, mostly based on number of visits to certain websites by differing systems, both measure differently and give different figures. At least one of these receives corporate sponsorship and maybe massaging the figures to reflect their sponsors in the best possible light. Accuracy is hard to determine. Most the public either has never heard of Linux, or dismissed it as 'not something for users like them'
Well, aren't they? Certainly, to be using Linux the user needs to be more adventurous to have jumped out of the windows comfort zone and be willing to learn something new and unfamiliar. I've known as many Linux users with prior IT qualifications as those with none. During the 2000's I'd also have added a potential linux user needs a certain perverse sense of masochism, so many hurdles to getting things working a lot of the time. Things have improved much since then.
There's an interesting article from Datamation on the observed differences of Linux users to windows users.
the Nvidia 470.xx driver is on Archlinux repos.
I was so excited...I ran the package manager update and rebooted immediately (I only reboot my main machine every week or so).
My Display Manager failed, as Xorg wouldnt run. Tried Startx and xinit...removed modesetting from the kernel line, the Xorg.conf I was using, and disconnected all but the primary monitor. Tried downgrading the Nvidia drivers (had to boot into fallback for the previous kernel), still no joy (WTF - that should have worked).
Finally had to swap out the proprietary driver for the Nouveau, and that did at least get me back into my desktop. I'll give the update another try at the next version.
Very disappointing.
I don't meant to sound nasty or compalin too much, but isn't this forum supposed to be about how to get DAZ to run in Linux? 99% of the posts here seem to be little more than complaints that it doesn't, with about 1% of the posts insisting it does, but exactly HOW they got it to run remains a mystery.
I'm trying to get my system transitioned over to Linux over the next several years before Windows 11 comes along and forces the issue on me. Among my shakier programs to install on Linux would be DAZ3D, which I use for making my cover art for the books I write. I'd prefer to not use my own hand-drawn art, because I know five year olds with better artistic skills. I do need iRay for the renders, but I'm fine with one model at a time if need be. I can position them as needed in a background in GIMP. I have a Ryzen 2700X CPU, which isn't top of the line anymore, but it gets the job done wihtout burning up - especially on simpler renders. I'm not counting on GPU assistance in renders in Linux, but it would be nice if that ever happens.. I've got the latest flavor of Mint installed on another drive I'll swap out with my current system drive when the time comes. Every few weeks I add something more to it to see how well it works. Most of what I use is open source anyhow. Mostly games and specific programs (like Scrivener) are ones I need to put into Mint, and I'm finding work-arounds for those on their forums.
Not so much here, though.
I don't see any instructions other than to "use wine". That's fine, becuase I had already planned to install Wine for one of my games that needs it. But installing Wine is the easy part. "Wine" won't install DAZ by itself. It's easy to install a binary under Wine, too, but is that all there is to installing DAZ and getting it to run? Would a virtual machine be better? I don't care about Windows 10 not getting updates since I don't use DAZ to get my models, only to access them once gotten. Will Install Manager work under Wine, or will that need a virtual Win 10 environment with DAZ?
There is a lot to configure, a lot of places DAZ loves to shove things and a lot of things that can go wrong IN WINDOWS. It's harder in Linux.
Is it possible to get a new thread that is much heavier on the instructions side and more silent on the sidebar commentary? Or does someone know what page the most recent instructions might be found that applies within the last year or so? Not trying to be a troll here. I'd just like something a bit more detailed than "use Wine", which seems to be all I can find.
[edit to add: Okay, I found some concise, if lengthy, instructions to installing DAZ on Linux over on Deviant Art. I apologize if I offended anyone. But those instructions are only instructions, and might better help others with the same problem.]
...I've been investigating the VM route as I refuse to even move to W10 let alone having to pretty much build a new system (save for the drives, case, and PSU) for W11. It still would mean an upgrade in hardware, but not as expensive as tooling up for W11 (which is just a more feature bloated version of W10). I'm of the "minimalist school" when it comes to an OS, the fewer "fluff" features to get in the way and deal with, the better. W7 Pro pretty much has filled that bill for me which for now is why I still use it.
Something DAZ Studio feels old. I run numbers high end games on my Linux box via Steam. Often, the newer games run better than some old ones (I'm looking at you Civ IV). Getting Studio to run via WINE or other emulators seems harder than it should be.
@carpevis_ed37b0713a
Quite right.
However this forum goes quiet for long periods as people only come here to look for help or, as in my case, report problems. As I'm on a bleeding edge Rolling distro, I get a lot of those. Usually they are due to the rapid update schedule and problems with various libraries versus the latest Wine version, and I don't expect most users on Release based distros will get these.
The situation is less extreme than 99% vs. 1% though. It's hard to say, people only check in when they are trying to install it or running into problems.
There was a How To posted to the forum a number of pages back drawn up from various users input. A Forum thread such as this should probably have the Instructions posted on the first post of the first page, as that's how it's done in other thread on the Daz forums, but only the first poster can do that. It's usually a good idea to skim through a forum thread before jumping to the current point though.
Studio has installed and run quite well since early mid 2017, with a few caveats. Initially the sliders were hardly functional, forcing one to enter numbers manually, but that's not been a problem since Studio 4.10/Wine 4 (or was it Wine 5). I actually think it's less crash prone on Linux and Wine, going by reports from Windows Studio users on crash rate.
Glad you found it. I tried to make the instructions as complete as possible, but probably ended up being too verbose. The instructions are much the same as the set posted earlier in this forum thread, maybe more accurate (there were a few references to old Postgresql versions which confused people), I'd hoped to get some input from others on this forum as to improvements, but the forum went quiet.
I tried recently on a new Linux Mint build. The Basic Content lists seem to work, but never could get the Smart Content to work. Went back to my very old iMac for scene setup, export with Diffeo, and rsync to the Linux box.
I'd gotten Smart Content to work with instructions Amy Aimei (on Deviant Art) worked out. Those are included in the Installation How To posted earlier in this thread and on my Da page.
The setup broke on a major Postgresql update, and I never got around to fixing it as I was thinking of switching distros at the time and didn't think it worth it if I was going to mess about with my install later, plus I never really used Smart Content anyway.
Apparently Smart Content works out of the box in the Pop-OS distro (no messing around with setting up a Postgresql db on linux needed). I expect it's how Pop-OS has it's Wine setup. This is according to a Pop-OS user, who questioned the need for the Postgresql step, saying it wasn't required.
I organise my content by using soft links (e.g. a folder structure that contains links to props products categorised by topic, e.g sci-fi, fantasy, outdoors), this works on both recent DS and Poser runtime content.
Ok, so here's a puzzle for people who want to get Dforce working. Would love any help on it.
So, I just migrated from a HDD to a SSD and had to make a fresh linux installation.
What I had: Arch linux (used to be Antergos), with wine-staging 6.16 at the moment of migration, DAZ Studio 4.15 (started out as 4.10 and then got upgraded regularly through DIM). Open CL was installed separately with needed packages, then it was "override" of opencl in Libraries tab of winecfg. Running winecfg with Win 7 setting. In this configuration Dforce works.
What I made: Arch linux (Manjaro XFCE), with wine-staging 6.16 and fresh install of DAZ Studio 4.15. Just copying over the wine bottle from Antergos didn't let me get CSM working, while the new version worked flawlessly using the usual manual (with Posgresql etc). Same packages of Open CL are installed and the same override is done in winecfg Libraries. Smart Content is working. Dforce can't find a device.
What could be the crucual difference that lets Dforce work on Antergos, and not on Manjaro? I suspect it's some small setting or a file to copy over... But no idea what to test out. I have access to both systems, they're just in dual-boot. So fire away, I can check.
Update: Apparantly it's not the system, but something within the wine-bottle. The copied over bottle, despite not being able to find CMS, does manage Open CL and Dforce. On the Manjaro system.
Update2: Also Dforce works only after a shaman ritual. You need to first run it on an empty scene, let it tell you that there's nothing to simulate (might take like 5 min) and then simulate what you wanted. Otherwise it just crashes DAZ.
You didn't mention your hardware, mainly your GPU.
dforce used to work fine on my system (Archlinux, Ryzen 7 CPU, Nvidia 1080 GPU, 32GB RAM), but I had to run clinfo before I launched Studio otherwise Studio could find the OpenCL device ('A valid OpenCL 1.2 device could not be found'). The empty scene workaround wouldn't work for me, all the controls are greyed out as no available engine. I didn't use any library overrides in winecfg though.
dForce used to work fine, despite no CUDA device found for GPU rendering. I don't know why running clinfo (on linux) was required before running studio on a fresh boot, maybe it loaded the required libraries that studio running on wine didn't.
I'm currently without mainly due to graphics driver issues since version 470, I've had to switch the the Nouveau driver (which still lags behind the proprietary driver and has no vulkan and not OpenCL support. but if I revert to the Nvidia drivers, I can't run either XWindows or Wayland.
Wine (not staging) has had OpenCL libraries included in the build (since around the same time as the Nvidia 470 driver was released). So you should not necessarily need to use staging for OpenCL support.
You might want to try rolling back your library override for OpenCL, and/or Wine proper instead of staging.
I have a built-in GPU on an Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 motherboard, but I'm not using that in any way for DAZ. Both the render and the Dforce simulation is happening on my Intel i3-4130 processor. So of course I wouldn't know if whatever keeps my dforce alive would work for a proper GPU.
Just for the record, I have the following opencl packages installed:
intel-opencl (5.0.r63503-2)
intel-opencl-runtime (1:20.26.17199-1)
intel-opencl-sdk (2020.1.395-2)
intel-opencl-clang (12.0.0-1)
ncurses5-compat-libs (6.2-1)
Nvidia drivers:
linux510-rt-nvidia (470.63.01-1)
mhwd-nvidia (470.63.01-1)
mhwd-nvidia-390xx (390.144-1)
But I don't think those nvidia drivers are relevant in my case, since as I said, the copied over wine bottle works with Dforce, while the freshly installed one doesn't. They're both on the same system, so it should be something in the wine settings or files.
I'll see if switching to wine will help. Override or no override did not help the fresh install, since originally I didn't do the override.
Update:
Switching back to Wine just messed up both installations, since I got the "Daz Studio cannot run with elevated permissions" message, which I have no idea how to fix under wine. So I went back to wine-staging.
Also found the bug, why the copied over wine-bottle couldn't find CMS. Apparantly having an old path in your "DAZ connect data" in Content Manager will break it for you. Found it by comparing both logs from two bottles.
Another difference (and mostly the only one left) betwee the logs is the line:
"APIC Physical ID=3" for my copied over bottle, and "APIC Physical ID=2" for the fresh bottle. Could that have anything to do with Dforce?
I think Nvidia requires OpenCL to go through CUDA, so you might need nvidias cuda installed if it's trying to go through nvidia. Also check /etc/OpenCL/vendors for the .icd files (one is needed for each OpenCL device you want to use (intel and/or nvidia).
Try running clinfo (on linux) to check that it finds an available opencl device. You could also install clinfo (to the windows directory) on your prefix and run it from there to compare output to see if wine can also see the same devices. If both those check out, then it's studio which isn't detecting.
I got that rather a lot recently, sometimes just after running update that upgraded wine, sometimes when switching from wine to staging or vice versa (never heard of anyone else getting it, I thought my wine prefix had gotten an error). Never had it before the last month or so, I used to flip back and forth between wine and staging a lot
I sorted it by erasing my prefix and re-creating it and re-installing Daz Studio again. Fairly painless, except having to re-install all my plugins and products that require files installed to the Program Files directory.
A lot of weird things have been happening with studio on wine recently. I used to use a bash script to run clinfo (to 'wake' opencl otherwise it wouldn't get found by studio) and then run studio. Lately, the script doesn't launch studio anymore (no error), but the line in the script 'WINEARCH=win64 WINEPREFIX=[pathtoprefix] wine [pathtoexe)' works fine from the terminal.
Isn't that in one of the users/ folders? that are by default soft linked to the linux /home/user/Documents directory?
I know some linux users are annoyed by the behaviour (being of the school of 'documents should contain just documents'. There is probably an Environment variable to change this, but I found it wise to stick to default locations or move them but put soft link in the original place pointing to the new location.
I keep my content on a seperate drive, soft linked back to the Documents/DAZ 3D/Studio/ location (and, as I keep the downloaded product packages, the DAZ 3D folder in users/Public/Documents is stored on another drive and softlinked back.
I've more than one Daz studio prefix.
I've my 'current' Daz64: which gets updated as I run dim from this prefix,
I've the 32bit version Daz32: When I started using Daz in early 2017, Wine had just hit version 2 and only begun to address 64bit applications so it wasn't until May/June that users started reporting reliable usage of Daz 64. I have the 32bit dim installed to this also (sometimes it works better)
Additionally, I've prefixes for Daz4.10 (last version that Iray on GPU worked on - or at least did for a while) and Daz4.12 (which has the 4.10 iray plugin copied in place as that worked for a while).
No problem with all of these all accessing the same CMS (when I had it set up) as they all shared the same Connect and cms config files (using softlinks).
Not sure, but I highly doubt it. APIC (Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller) seems a ver low level setting, not something that should be fiddled with. Are these two bottles on the same hardware or on different machines? If it's different hardware, it makes sense that'd the physical ids might be different, like motherboard Bus addresses.