Strange lines on the legs

reserv888

I get these strange lines on the legs. I don't know why and i don't know what to do about it.

I. Genesis 2. Carbon fibre mats from Shader Presets > Iray > NVidia MDL Examples. Iray render.

II. Genesis 3. Original Iray mats for the character (LY Kassandra). Iray render.

Anyone who knows what to do?

larsmidnatt

for both images are you sure the UV Set is the same for both the leg and torso?

for #2, are they using the same shader settings, the torso and the legs(or even the same shader?) from the distance it it's hard to tell if the textures are lined up or not, but seems more like a shader setting.

For #1, do you have the same issue with other textures?

reserv888

Thank you very much larsmidnatt for your reply.

Yes, it is the same UV Set (base female)  on the legs and the body.on both #1 and #2

#1 (Carbon)The same issue appears with textures that are patterned in some form, like Mec4D's Sand Smart Layer (see pic)

#2 (LY Kassandra) I am not entirely sure what you mean with "shader setting". Can't find anything with that name.
I made a new render of LY Kassandra without me doing any modifications at all. Just loaded and rendered. Same result.

By mistake I made a 3Delight render of LY Kassandra (but with Iray mats). There the lines can't be seen. Which I find odd.

I made a new render with plain G2 and G3 with the Carbon FIbre mats. Both got these strange lines, just in different places. (see pic)

 

larsmidnatt

i think you need to remove the 2 middle pictures so we don't see that annoying red text that shows up when someone else removes the pictures for you. I'm going to tinker for a minute and get back to ya.

OK as I thought, you can't just use a tiling textures across UV seams. That's why people make "second skin" bodysuit textures for characters, to overcome this limitation.

I think Kassie's issue was the shader settings. Especially if you don't see it in one shader, but in another. If the settings are not identical, you will notice the slight difference at the UV seam.

reserv888

Ok, I have now removed them.

 

larsmidnatt

i updated comment.

To do the tiling texture on the character directly, you would likely need to open up a photo editing tool or 3D paint application to make the pattern go over the UV seams perfectly.

G2F and G3F have seams in different places. So that explains that variation.

BTW When I am talking about the shader settings, I am talking about all the values in the Surfaces tab.

reserv888

larsmidnatt said:

I think Kassie's issue was the shader settings. Especially if you don't see it in one shader, but in another. If the settings are not identical, you will notice the slight difference at the UV seam.

That must mean there is something wrong with LY Kassandra since the error occurs directly when (default) LY Kassandra is loaded. Right?

larsmidnatt

reserv888 said:

larsmidnatt said:

I think Kassie's issue was the shader settings. Especially if you don't see it in one shader, but in another. If the settings are not identical, you will notice the slight difference at the UV seam.

That must mean there is something wrong with LY Kassandra since the error occurs directly when (default) LY Kassandra is loaded. Right?

Well I think you said at one point you were using the wrong renderer for the material preset used?

If you see that issue when using the right material preset, and the right renderer, then yes something must be wrong with the preset.

reserv888

larsmidnatt said:

reserv888 said:

larsmidnatt said:

 

Well I think you said at one point you were using the wrong renderer for the material preset used?

If you see that issue when using the right material preset, and the right renderer, then yes something must be wrong with the preset.

Yes, maybe I didn't describe it well. 
When I use LY Kassandras Iray materials with the Iray renderer. The line shows.
When I use LY Lassandras Iray materials with the 3Delight renderer. The line is not there! Thats odd to me.

Thanks alot larsmidnatt for your feedback.

Lyoness

reserv888 said:

larsmidnatt said:

reserv888 said:

larsmidnatt said:

 

Well I think you said at one point you were using the wrong renderer for the material preset used?

If you see that issue when using the right material preset, and the right renderer, then yes something must be wrong with the preset.

Yes, maybe I didn't describe it well. 
When I use LY Kassandras Iray materials with the Iray renderer. The line shows.
When I use LY Lassandras Iray materials with the 3Delight renderer. The line is not there! Thats odd to me.

Thanks alot larsmidnatt for your feedback.

My understanding, is that these lines are due to your compression settings.
Render Settings>Advanced>Texture Compression ----> make sure you set them at 2048 and 4096.
Also, in the past, I've applied a smoothing modifier to G3, although I don't think that's the issue here.

reserv888

Thank you very much Lyoness for your reply.

Here is the result after I changed Texture compression to 2048/4096.

USED: Default LY Kassandra. Iray materials. Iray render.

RESULT: As you can see, the lines are still there,

 

Lyoness

reserv888 said:

Thank you very much Lyoness for your reply.

Here is the result after I changed Texture compression to 2048/4096.

USED: Default LY Kassandra. Iray materials. Iray render

RESULT: As you can see, the lines are still there

ok. I certainly recognize those lines.

I don't know how or why, but those are seam lines.  they are where the torso uv and the leg uv meets. For some reason, your lights are bringing them out. My texture was thoroughly checked evenso sometimes quirky things pop up like that. Please try changing your lights and see if they are still there.

 

cunningf

I've tried Kassandra with these different sets of lights http://www.daz3d.com/total-iray-lighting and http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/oot-sexy-studio-lights-for-daz-studio-iray/109696/ and the seam lines show in both hen I render using Iray.

Lyoness

cunningf said:

I've tried Kassandra with these different sets of lights http://www.daz3d.com/total-iray-lighting and http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/oot-sexy-studio-lights-for-daz-studio-iray/109696/ and the seam lines show in both hen I render using Iray.

well ok then.

I'll talk to daz and turn in an update.

edited

 

Lyoness

Lyoness said:

cunningf said:

I've tried Kassandra with these different sets of lights http://www.daz3d.com/total-iray-lighting and http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/oot-sexy-studio-lights-for-daz-studio-iray/109696/ and the seam lines show in both hen I render using Iray.

well ok then.

I'll talk to daz and turn in an update.

edited

ok folks.

I've tried to reproduce your error.  I've checked the files... heck, I've even repainted them... but I am not seeing any lines.

Here, I've used the default lights, just like the OP.

and here I've used freebie lights from Dumo3d from the last DS Creative Magazine.

no lines.

you may have inadvertly changed the settings on the shader.  Do a fresh install and apply the full body morph, then apply the texture and render instead of opening up the character file..
See if that helps you.

 

 

 

JD_Mortal

Try reloading the model... One texture-setting may have "stuck" and the replacement texture does not remove things that others add... Such as carbon-fiber... It may have added a setting like SSS-ancient-slidervalue, that alters just the leg...

I get that with some shaders and I hate that there is no way to easily purge the lingering settings. Going back to default doesn't remove them, it just brings-back the additional default settings to stack onto the lingering shader settings that don't eject themselves when that shader is replaced with another.

info_44cc80827d

Hi !

I've made a request few days ago at Daz support : I've the same trouble on Kassandra with many tests (e.g. lights and presets render modified) . No issues with others characters i(V7) under Iray. This product was ordered on 08/10/2015 in the shop.

The material seems to be faulty. My nvidia driver is updated and I make many render under ds4.8 with Iray : this trouble is displayed ONLY with Kassandra.

I don't think Iray Render is the source of the problem or Iray lighting. May have to test this with different settings on material : translucency, SSS map...news as soon as possible.

 

info_44cc80827d

Coming back after some test ;)...

I've made different renders by deleting maps on torso and legs to find the source of the trouble...

First, let me say that my Iray settings are :

Default, Sun only and textures compression med/high = 2048, 4096. For my Screen = Samsung 23" calibrated with colorimetric sonde.(I'm working in 3D too)
First render : all maps, (Iray materials from Kassandra ) >  line displayed here

Second render : all maps but top coat set at "none" (map deleted here) > line displayed here

Third render : all maps but translucency set at "none " (maps SST deleted on legs and torso) > line NOT displayed...render OK.

Fourth render : all maps from EVA 7 character , Iray materials : Line NOT displayed.

It seems that the source of the issue is the legs SST and Torso SST maps (tga)....may be a "light" tone difference between them (contrast? Light? ) for me the UV mapping is NOT the source of the issue nor Iray,  but only TONES on  these two textures...The weight from the original product is 0.35 for the two maps so, not the cause.

Hope that's helping

;)

jestmart

There is nothing wrong with the textures, it is something weird with the Iray character preset.  When I load her with the character preset I get the lines.  When I load G3F apply morph manually and the Iray material preset no lines.

mjc1016

jestmart said:

There is nothing wrong with the textures, it is something weird with the Iray character preset.  When I load her with the character preset I get the lines.  When I load G3F apply morph manually and the Iray material preset no lines.

My guess...one of the colors is not matching.  As I don't have that set, I can't say for sure which it could be...but just a quick glance, I'd say that it was diffuse color.

jestmart

No, what is so weird about it the surface settings appear to be exactly the same between the character preset and the material preset, it is just the character preset that gives the lines.

larsmidnatt

jestmart said:

No, what is so weird about it the surface settings appear to be exactly the same between the character preset and the material preset, it is just the character preset that gives the lines.

That may be enough to help the PA track down the issue. That is a very specific quirk. I wonder if the UV's are set correctly for the legs in the character preset?

Lyoness

larsmidnatt said:

jestmart said:

No, what is so weird about it the surface settings appear to be exactly the same between the character preset and the material preset, it is just the character preset that gives the lines.

That may be enough to help the PA track down the issue. That is a very specific quirk. I wonder if the UV's are set correctly for the legs in the character preset?

Yes, several of us finally tracked down the issue.  I would have never found this on my own, it's very subtle.  Richard Haseltine is brilliant and all the credit goes to him!!

 

This is a quick and dirty fix.  It's not hard, just different.

 

This is what we are starting with when the character preset loads: We can all see the lines. (this doesn't happen when you load G3, then the full body morph and then the skin texture.  For some reason, this is only the character. Once you load the character, you are stuck with the lines)

 

there is only 1 setting that you need to change. 

 

Select G3 in your scene, go to surfaces, find Legs and then Translucency Weight.  Regular (left) click on the picture and to to Image Editor, see pic.

 

then change the value at Image Gamma to 1.0 hit accept.

 

Voila! All fixed!!

 

Please note that I am assuming that you know your way around Daz Studio. 
I have shown you my setup which is customized for my work. Your layout will not look like mine.
However, the menu selections and windows are the same

mjc1016

I was guessing that it was just a slight difference in the diffuse value...but the gamma setting 'guessed' wrong would do the same thing.  And without setting the gamma, that's what you are basically telling DS to do...guess.

I'm going to say that there is a very good chance that image is saved as an RGB jpg and NOT a greyscale jpg.  Because most of the time, if a control map is an RGB jpg DS will guess wrongly.  Resaving the map, making sure it is greyscalel should make DS guess correctly...otherwise the change will need to be made each time it's loaded

Lyoness

mjc1016 said:

I was guessing that it was just a slight difference in the diffuse value.

yeah. that was never going to be the problem.  I spend too much time working with the shaders to let something so simple be the problem.
It actually appears to be a potential bug in the software and not exclussively the PA's "fault". Evidently, I'm not the only one who has experienced this. So please be gentle with us Artists, we really do try to bring you the best product that we can.

larsmidnatt

Yes, several of us finally tracked down the issue.  I would have never found this on my own, it's very subtle.  Richard Haseltine is brilliant and all the credit goes to him!!

You cat people really stick together don't ya? Glad you found a solution! 

Lyoness

larsmidnatt said:

Yes, several of us finally tracked down the issue.  I would have never found this on my own, it's very subtle.  Richard Haseltine is brilliant and all the credit goes to him!!

You cat people really stick together don't ya? Glad you found a solution! 

well I didn't want to take all the credit since Richard is the one that passed all the good info on to me!!

mjc1016

It's not so much a bug, but a limitation in how DS makes the call on what the gamma correction should/should not be.  There's a somewhat 'mystical' heirarchy as to how it makes the call...and for some things if the maps are not exactly what it expects, it guesses wrong.  We've been hammering this point for months now in the 3Delight thread.  Those of us who write shaders (rsl shaders) discoverd this a while ago.  Rob did explain how the choice is made, but ultimately it boils down to some control map slots are more susceptible than others, because not all are treated the same way.

My vote for a 'perfect' (or is that purr-fect) fix would be that any control slot that takes an image map, that is supposed to be black and white/greyscale has a 'fixed' value of 1 for the gamma.  That way if the maps aren't set to greyscale (it's part of the header info encoded into the image file) it doesn't matter.  Also some image formats are less likely to have it happen...png is less likely than jpg (yes, png does have that header info, but just about everything ignores it for a png).

As to the color being off...it doesn't take much...lets say the color picker shows a light grey of 196 196 196 for everything else, a color of 196 196 198 on one of the slots would be enough to be noticeable.  Something can be missed...easily (I write...six months or more later I'll go back to a chapter and find mistakes I could swear weren't there when I 'finalized' it...).   That just makes it so much harder to track down.

info_44cc80827d

Sorry but this issue is not a bug to my eyes...

Open the duf file of kassandra preset (LY Kassandra 00 Iray Character.duf) in a text editor like context for example....

Go to line 159 : you'll see :

    "id" : "LY_Kassandra_Legs_SST_1003.jpg",
            "name" : "LY_Kassandra_Legs_SST_1003.jpg",
            "map_gamma" : 0,
            "map" : [
                {
                    "url" : "/Runtime/Textures/Lyoness/Kassandra/LY_Kassandra_Legs_SST_1003.jpg",
                    "label" : "LY_Kassandra_Legs_SST_1003.jpg"
                }
          then some line "down", 214 see the setting of torso sst :

"id" : "LY_Kassandra_Torso_SST_1002.jpg",
            "name" : "LY_Kassandra_Torso_SST_1002.jpg",
            "map_gamma" : 1,
            "map" : [
                {
                    "url" : "/Runtime/Textures/Lyoness/Kassandra/LY_Kassandra_Torso_SST_1002.jpg",
                    "label" : "LY_Kassandra_Torso_SST_1002.jpg"
                }

So .... ;) just a faulty setting not a bug from DS..or Iray.

Modify the line from 0 to 1 in gamma setting for legs SST and all is done.

Just an update to make from new customers ? ;)

@Lyoness : However, your character and your work is very nice! ;) I like to use it in Daz...Keep the good work ! ;)

mjc1016

It's saved that way because Studio guessed wrong when the preset was made. 

info_44cc80827d

Ok, thanks for this... ;)