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Getting on the 9 train, or not

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  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,970
    edited March 28

    G9's base mesh clearly works better with male, than female characters.
    Unlike female Characters, every male character I purchased just worked great. 

    Post edited by Masterstroke on
  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 1,623

    I have always thought the G9 eyes looked great and I know that that was the feeling when we were seeing the demo images and initial results. I think I will try and see what people are talking about.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,855

    Pancake said:

    As someone who only started using the Daz store during Genesis 8.1, I jumped to Genesis 9 instantly.

    So it has me wondering - did all the other generations have this much push back with people a year later asking if it's worth it yet?


     

    It was G3, specifically Victoria 7, that got me to use Daz Studio at all. I was a diehard Poser user but when G3 was introduced with V7 and Iray I finally jumped on board. I was never a fan of G1 or G2 but bought them cheap way after they were new. My general impression was that people loved G3 but some didn't want to deal with IRay which was this new complicated thing to people at the time. 

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,637

    Still find genesis 9 male sub par for me. Not a lot of content, and most content heavily geared towards female presenting figures. Male presenting chests and torso lack interest areas, hair designed with female hairlines, male nipples kind of frustrating experience, coat  hanger shoulders and blocky torsos and pieroscoping necks. 

     

     

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,691
    edited March 28

    Still on the 8 train after all this time. I have a few times thought about buying a clothes or hair for 9 and converting, but after looking, I already had something similar for 8 already and passed on it. 8 does all I want and need, 9 improves on nothing that interests me, so I guess better luck on enticing me into genesis x. I think the only thing that might entice me to another generation is proper backwards compatibilty along with soft body physics. Not holding my breath though, we don't even have great cloth physics yet.

    Post edited by TheKD on
  • miladyderyni_173d399f47miladyderyni_173d399f47 Posts: 1,727

    gecko89 said:

    daveso said:

    gecko89 said:

    I tried to like G9. I really did. But I don't.

    There are a few things better about G9 than G8, but not much, but they are little improvements.

    And I do like those.

    BUT

    The flat, dead-looking non-reflective mannequin-ish eyes ruin it  for me.

    I've had people tell me it is my lighting and other things, but it's not true. I know how to use lights. I've tried all sorts of differen lights, different angles, colors, lumen and intensity settings, I've been at thins on anf off for over a year now. I've tried experimenting with the shaders too. Nothing works. I've only had ONE G9 character exhibit eye reflections and they are very faint and only show up on really really close ups of the face.

    I have no problems at all getting eye reflections on G8/8.1 No problem at all.

    So after over a year of this, I give up. It's not worth the aggrivation with this flawed product. 

    Until they start making the eyes properly,  I'm sticking with G8 and 8.1.  I have officially given up on G9. It's trash,

    interesting about the eye reflections. I thought it was me.  

    I have perfomed extensive experiments to figure out why.

    I have put G8 and G9 figures in the saxe same spot in the exact same scene and the exact same lights.

    G8 eyes produce beautiful reflections. G9 eyes do not.

    I' placed random props likewise. Shiny props product light reflections. G9 eyes do not.

    I've tried minimal lighting - just one point light - in a scene with the same results.

    I've put up to ten different point lights at various positions, different lumen and intensity settings - with the same results.

    When I look at my close ups, I can clearly see the yes on G9 figures literally look flat compared to the spherical eyes of G8 figures. That might be a clue.

    I've spent over a year seraching the internet trying to find some way to make G9 eyes work properly and nothing at all helps.

    I recently purchased a newer G9 figure in hopes someone had done better with the eyes. Nope. Same crappy nonreflective eyes.

    Hopefully someday G10 will come out and the design team will make the eyes right. Hopefully. But until then,I'm not wasting any more of my money and time on G9.

    I'm done with it.

     

     

     

     

     

    Oh, those G9 eyes are the creepiest, especially in the main promo for https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-9-mega-bundle. Those 3 women & their wild eyes are the scariest! It's less noticeable in other characters but I think eyes are one of the 3 main reasons I am staying on the 3 and 8 Trains. (The other 2 are prices and my aged computer.)

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611
    edited March 29

    The eyes are one of my favorite things about G9. I've never had any issues getting the eyes to reflect wonderfully...and I pretty much only use the base eyes and colors that came with the base expansion. For lighting I use HDRI and spots and if I need a specific accent, I'll throw a ghost light in there. This is all the same stuff I used to do with G8/8.1. I will say that eyes and facial expressions got significantly better (in my opinion) going from G8 to 8.1 (like night and day better)...and then even better again with G9. 

    G9 - 

    G8.1 -

    G8.1 - 

    G8 - 

    G8 - 

     

    Post edited by MelissaGT on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,970

    Wonderland said:

    Pancake said:

    As someone who only started using the Daz store during Genesis 8.1, I jumped to Genesis 9 instantly.

    So it has me wondering - did all the other generations have this much push back with people a year later asking if it's worth it yet?


     

    It was G3, specifically Victoria 7, that got me to use Daz Studio at all. I was a diehard Poser user but when G3 was introduced with V7 and Iray I finally jumped on board. I was never a fan of G1 or G2 but bought them cheap way after they were new. My general impression was that people loved G3 but some didn't want to deal with IRay which was this new complicated thing to people at the time. 

    Exactly like my story. I liked G3 right away and G8 is just an inproved, fixed version of it. 

  • dtrscbrutaldtrscbrutal Posts: 510
    edited March 29

    In my experence sculpting details such as ribs and abs is far easier and enjoyable on Genesis 9, than Genesis 8/8.1.

    image

     Default eyes on Genesis 9 utilize the PBR skin shader. Uber and PBR are not the same animal. Though there is crossover with Uber shaders, I often find if the PBR skin shader is lit with an Uber shader lighting setup I don't get the best results.
     The image below uses the "Neon Photostudio" HDRI from polyhaven. It's an adequate lighting set up for PBR in studio type images with default camera settings.

    image


    I am in 100% agreement with MelissaGT about the face controls, G8.1 was a vast improvement over G8. The G9 face controls are an orders of magnitude improvement. A real thing of beauty IMHO.

    Gravaton ad3 a1.jpg
    836 x 1200 - 840K
    MORPH 03 24 24 Rabbit 17 express test a3 03 25 24.jpg
    923 x 1200 - 865K
    Post edited by dtrscbrutal on
  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,978

    speaking of the base G9 ... were there not 4 figures each for male and female, as well as a base figure when it was first introduced? the current ones are not the same as what I remember, or am I a bit daft here. 

  • NinefoldNinefold Posts: 256
    edited March 29

    Genesis 9 released with some Genesis 8 and 8.1 materials/texture sets converted to 9 (offhand, Victoria and Michael 8.1, Kento, Jinx Jones, Jazz, Kala and Zale). At some point an update introduced named character morphs (Amala, Matt, etc) that correspond to the textures and appear in the library as "Amala G9", etc. The morphs don't resemble the Genesis 8 characters.

    Post edited by Ninefold on
  • columbinecolumbine Posts: 444

    daveso said:

    speaking of the base G9 ... were there not 4 figures each for male and female, as well as a base figure when it was first introduced? the current ones are not the same as what I remember, or am I a bit daft here. 

    What Ninefold said. There were initially four SURFACES each, reusing certain surfaces from G8.1 (e.g. Feminine 3 is Jinx Jones, which I always remember because I think that surface makes every figure resemble Jinx Jones regardless of their shape.) The extra SHAPES, who have names, and each load a particular one of these surfaces by default (e.g. Amala loads Feminine 3), were added semi-stealthily in September of last year.

  • NinefoldNinefold Posts: 256

    columbine said:

    (e.g. Feminine 3 is Jinx Jones, which I always remember because I think that surface makes every figure resemble Jinx Jones regardless of their shape.)

    Oh, totally. Jinx Jones is an amazing character, but putting her materials on any other character makes them look like an incomplete version of her. A lot of Genesis series characters have very identifiable texture maps, but I think she's the only character I feel this way about.

  • davesodaveso Posts: 6,978

    columbine said:

    daveso said:

    speaking of the base G9 ... were there not 4 figures each for male and female, as well as a base figure when it was first introduced? the current ones are not the same as what I remember, or am I a bit daft here. 

    What Ninefold said. There were initially four SURFACES each, reusing certain surfaces from G8.1 (e.g. Feminine 3 is Jinx Jones, which I always remember because I think that surface makes every figure resemble Jinx Jones regardless of their shape.) The extra SHAPES, who have names, and each load a particular one of these surfaces by default (e.g. Amala loads Feminine 3), were added semi-stealthily in September of last year.

    and now there are three? 

  • ElorElor Posts: 1,415

    daveso said:

    and now there are three? 

    The number of skins (8) didn't change with 6 of them used for the characters added last September.

  • columbinecolumbine Posts: 444

    Elor said:

    daveso said:

    and now there are three? 

    The number of skins (8) didn't change with 6 of them used for the characters added last September.

    That. Sorry I was unclear.

    (Amala, Fabrice, Kat, Laura, Matt, Ty. Amala uses F3, Fabrice M3, Kat F1, Laura F4, Matt M4, Ty M1. F2 and M2 got nobody. Course you can put any skins on 'em you want.)

  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 860

    On the subject of G9 eye highlights/reflections, I created materials presets for G9 eyes (EyeMoisture Left/Right) to give me nice reflections/eye glints.  I had done the same with G3 and G8 and just moved the idea of my adjustments over to G9.

    I've set up 2 presets, one gives me more prominent reflections and the other one gives a more subtle result.  Whenever I load a materials preset on G9, I almost always then select the eyes and apply one of my Reflection presets to immediately get results that I like.

    Have a peek in G9's Eyes materials (EyeMoisture) and adjust the settings there to see if that helps with eye reflections.

    Lee

     

  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 860

    Here's a test render of G9 with my regular eye moisture materials preset on the left, and my subtle version materials preset on the right.

    Lee

    G9-EyeReflectionMaterialPresets-Samples.jpg
    1932 x 1000 - 896K
  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 1,784

    Nothing in that test render makes me want to get on that train.

  • alienareaalienarea Posts: 526

    8 G9 characters side by side. Careful: they are as delivered, i.e. nude.

    Check the comments.
    https://www.deviantart.com/alien-area/art/The-Bad-Batch-1036047837

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,056

    I am still playing around with Genesis 2, 3 and 8, I have bought a couple of G9 clothing items and the clones product to use them on Genesis 8. The thing being that since I have invested so much time and funds into Victoria 4, Genesis 1, 2 ,3 and 8, that when Genesis 9 rolled around I realised that I no longer have the desire to go full tilt into another generation. So in the end, Genesis 8 is where I come to the end of the line.

  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 8,560

    Was initially reluctant to jump on the G9 bandwagon as had invested heavily in the previous generations.

    After reports that it could be used in Carrara with some minor tweaking I checked it out to see if it would be worthwhile.

    Have now invested in G9 and am using that along with the previous generations including Gen 3 figures, Aiko 3 is still a favourite.

     

  • OrangeFalconOrangeFalcon Posts: 176

    I feel it's all relative to when you started using Daz.  I started late last year, so I have pretty much all Gen 9 figures.  I see anything else as not worth the money-but that's because I use the realistic closeups from Gen 9 as my reference and I mainly want realistic looking characters for my scenes.

    Eventually, there will be another version released and this whole thing will start again and I might stand firm on the Gen 9 models as I've invested quite a bit unto it.  I love Daz and the Gen 9 models, but I recognize many others have spent a lot on previous models and aren't so cavalier on replacing them right away for (sometimes) minor upgrades to models they already have.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,296

    alienarea said:

    8 G9 characters side by side. Careful: they are as delivered, i.e. nude.

    Check the comments.
    https://www.deviantart.com/alien-area/art/The-Bad-Batch-1036047837

    Thanks for that. They look fine, well within normal parameters for healthy human females. If anything, they're all way too perfect for the pursuit of realism. I haven't really thought about specifically adjusting limb length. Height, yes. Real-world, there is a lot of variation. There are long-torso w/short legs, long legs w/short torso, etc. Some folks have long arms, some shorter. Nipples are soft tissue on soft tissue. They are frequently lower than one might think snd position varies, size varies, prominence varies - like breasts themselves. Some people, their nipples point straight down and some people have noticaeble variation between left and right breast. Real humans don't often match up to the ideals for human form. Nothing wrong with what I see except it's all a bit too uniform to be real. 

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 503

    My train hopping was, naturally, because I FINALLY could have ACTUAL animal teeth for my characters.

    Having done multiple custom textures for custom characters, the four maps for skin aren't bad.

  • TheCastellanTheCastellan Posts: 709

    I'll stick to 8.  Heck, I still use Aiko and Hiro 3.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,902

    Artini said:

    Could you please recommend some lights set that make G9s eyes looks great?

    Thanks.

     

    This is my goto for full scene lighing - https://polyhaven.com/hdris - Ever since I discovered their site I have not used anything else as a primary light source though I have used the odd spotlight for a rim light and also these - https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance-hdr-mesh-lights-volume-2-for-iray - FREE lite version here - https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance-hdr-mesh-lights-volume-2-for-iray-lite

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,296

    I'm increasingly moving to G8 with a fair amount of G3 and still some G2. I have no mechanism for moving hd morphs across generations. That's a limitation and some of the earlier work is still great! I'll probably do something with G9 some day. It's just, today is not that day.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,041

    OrangeFalcon said:

    I feel it's all relative to when you started using Daz.  I started late last year, so I have pretty much all Gen 9 figures.  I see anything else as not worth the money-but that's because I use the realistic closeups from Gen 9 as my reference and I mainly want realistic looking characters for my scenes.

    I started using DS early in the run of G8, and I'm so heavily invested in G8 that I can't afford to get much G9 content. There's a lot for G9 that I want, but it would cost a whole lot to bring G9 up to parity with G8.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,027

    Torquinox said:

    I'm increasingly moving to G8 with a fair amount of G3 and still some G2. I have no mechanism for moving hd morphs across generations. That's a limitation and some of .the earlier work is still great! I'll probably do something with G9 some day. It's just, today is not that day.

    ...this will let you move G3 morphs to G8, and it's even on sale right now. 

    https://www.daz3d.com/xtransfer--genesis-3-to-genesis-8-converter

    it even works with morph kits. and Genisis X Utilities 

    Also check Genesis X which as well as the add-ons will  let you transfer morphs from Gen4 and G1/G2 to G3  Morphs and shapes transferred to G3 are also transferable to G8 with the above.   

    https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x2

    https://www.daz3d.com/genx2-addon-for-genesis-2

    https://www.daz3d.com/genx2-addon-for-genesis-3 (this will lt you  transfer Genesis 2 morphs and shapes to Genesis 3.

    All are also on sale.

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