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NFT and the Future of Digital Content

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  • johnjohn808johnjohn808 Posts: 170
    I believe the solition is not grumbling about it. If we just ignore it and not buy into it, economics will win. Simple, if it aint selling... On another note, it super easy for me to ignore the Shudu thing. She just wont work in my genere. She is not built for or have the look for porn. Latonya on the other hand... "She's a brick...house" lol Anyway... just thought od drop some sick humor in to lighten things up. Its really stuffy in here.
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    ArkadySkies said:

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    deepswing said:

    I have read all the 7 (!) pages of comments now, but to be honest, I still don't get how this works. Now, let's assume I would be the customer, and I click on the link Daz provided where I can buy "something". I just learned that I get a link to a copy of a file (which might disappear at some point of time), but I still have this NFT, a long number. But - what do I do with it? Do I keep it and sell it somewhere to a higher price at some point of time? How does that work? And what is it I am actually selling here? Is this a kind of stock exchange Daz is entering now??

    Its a bit like selling a square meter of real estate on the moon. You don't have it, you cannot visit it (right now). All you have is a piece of paper from some more-or-(most lilkely)less trustworthy organization that tells you "Congrats, you own a square meter on the moon." 

    And anyone else can have their own piece of paper that gives them ownership over the same square meter of the moon, and new ones can continue to be printed up by anyone. But as long as the paper itself is unique, that is supposed to be enough.

    There are areas of Mars already minted and for sale... 

  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206

    PerttiA said:

    There are areas of Mars already minted and for sale... 

    Sometimes I wonder if NFTs are less of a technodystopian anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fever dream, and more of a super meta environmentally destructive commentary on the illusory nature of property and ownership, particularly as it pertains to the digital age.

    Oh well, better get in before the Martian real estate bubble bursts. I'll be at my summer home at the Eos Chasma if you need me. I'll mint myself a space yacht to get there.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,036
    edited April 2021

    AllenArt said:

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Hey forumites!

    We can tell there are lots of parts of the conversation around NFTs for digital artists that are important to you. And we acknowledge that there are valid concerns and plenty of unknowns yet to explore, some of which you've highlighted.  As with most sufficiently big advances in technology, there's a lot to test and learn, and no doubt plenty to improve! We're committed to being part of the solution, innovating responsibly, and we appreciate your input and feedback along the way.

    I just love corporate speak. I used to hear so much of it when I was a supervisior. Even spoke some. It's hot air. 

    Translation: we're going to do what we want, regardless of how the rest of you think. We want to see if we can make gobs of money off of it first before we throw in the towel. In the meantime we'll continue to placate all of you into thinking we're listening.

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    ...to quote several Star Wars characters...

    https://youtu.be/S74rvpc6W60?t=11

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,760

    ArkadySkies said:

    Sometimes I wonder if NFTs are less of a technodystopian anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fever dream, and more of a super meta environmentally destructive commentary on the illusory nature of property and ownership, particularly as it pertains to the digital age.

     Now that there is some seriously eloquent musings.

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727

    ArkadySkies said:

    PerttiA said:

    There are areas of Mars already minted and for sale... 

    Sometimes I wonder if NFTs are less of a technodystopian anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fever dream, and more of a super meta environmentally destructive commentary on the illusory nature of property and ownership, particularly as it pertains to the digital age.

    Oh well, better get in before the Martian real estate bubble bursts. I'll be at my summer home at the Eos Chasma if you need me. I'll mint myself a space yacht to get there.

    LOL!    BRAVO!!!

    /claps hands\

  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 903

    ArkadySkies said:

    Sometimes I wonder if NFTs are less of a technodystopian anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fever dream, and more of a super meta environmentally destructive commentary on the illusory nature of property and ownership, particularly as it pertains to the digital age.

    Does this happen while getting groceries? And surely you meant wet dream. Anyway, I agree with earlier posters,...this piece of proze should be kept safe for future generations to admire.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdj79/peoples-expensive-nfts-keep-vanishing-this-is-why?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

    You weren't selling it to me at the start.

    ... Nothing I've seen since has made me change my mind.

  • Khai-J-BachKhai-J-Bach Posts: 163

    so.... reading that article.. my takeaway is, the whole NFT idea is a scam....

     

  • droidy001droidy001 Posts: 282
    nicstt said:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdj79/peoples-expensive-nfts-keep-vanishing-this-is-why?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

    You weren't selling it to me at the start.

    ... Nothing I've seen since has made me change my mind.

    You can't make the shiz up. I would love him to take them to court over it. I'd even donate to a go fund me to help with costs.
  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344

    NFTs are a cash grab — a modern gold rush, fueled by the big players in the crytocurrency/blockchain space — nothing more.

    All that's getting stored in the blockchain is a link.... you're being sold a link to a file, that's all.
    Not copyrights or extended usage of the art — just ownership of a link to the art.
    Artificial scarcity in a medium with no scarcity.

    The people that get rich from any gold rush are not the people at the bottom trying to get rich panning for gold at the height of the rush... it's the people at the top that started the craze.
    The ones selling the tools and supplies to the prospectors... and those owning the marketplaces and mines.

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,482

    I know it has been linked and quoted more than once in this thread. But, lost amid the flood, it bears repeating:
    NFTs Weren’t Supposed to End Like This

    If anyone is still entertaining the notion of climbing aboard that sinking ship, just read that article from one of the developers of this piece of fluff about how fundamentally flawed it is, and how it can be exploited and abused. What can you expect from an application that was written overnight at a hackathon seven years ago and never developed any further, but has been pressed into service like there's no tomorrow. It all started nobly enough with the intention of helping artists and their works, but good intentions do not rule any business, much less the Internet.

     

     

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,872

    icprncss said:

    Wonderland said:

    AlmightyQUEST said:

    If someone is paying you for your work, get paid in whatever currency you are used to getting. I would not accept crypto currency payments, and certainly not any payment where they promised to pay, I just wouldn't receive the pay for a year.

     

    But think of it this way, if they were offering you stock in the company as payment, knowing what you know of them and their product, would you take it? In some cases (e.g., a passion project with people you know personally, and a clear partnership role in the companies success) this might make sense, but for a limited commission relationship that may not make sense.

     

    The person I’m supposed to meet (in VR) is supposedly a known film producer, normally easily checkable through IMDB, so it could be good PR for me even if the money doesn’t come through but adding to the fact that I’m only meeting an avatar in VR worries me a bit. I’ve worked in the film biz myself so hopefully I’ll be able to check if he’s for real. If he’s that big a producer though, he could pay an artist for art for a card game upfront. Everything is so virtual now, reality is getting so amorphous. I really feel like I’m living in an alternate universe. Sorry for derailing the topic.

    VR only? That brings raises more than one red flag. One why would a well known producer deal with such mundane items as a card game?. That what they have second and even third units for. If this is a legitimate film, why do they not have an art department? If this producer is so well known, they likely have a business number. Call and confirm your VR appointment with the producer's office before you waste any time.

    I found out more about it. I met with the producer and other people I already know in AltspaceVR. It’s a legit indie Canadian producer who has a partnership with a crypto company creating a huge card game. My art would just be one or two cards of many. It seems it’s just to get more people invested in crypto. I still need to talk to the art director more about it. They are paying in ETH investment  that I can’t touch for a year. I would get the ETH right away but not able to use it or cash out for a year, Could be worth it for one or two art pieces. I do a lot on spec anyway to sell as art prints so it doesn’t seem like that much of a risk. They said they would help publicize me and my art which is win/win for me and their game. 

    Crypto investors are doing everything they can to increase the market. That is their only goal. It is not about art or games or anything else. It’s just about creating more value for crypto.They have money so they could be successful. Who knows, I need the money. If the ETH is worth thousands in a year, it’s what I need to do. I’m freelance and art is my only source of income. Maybe it’s selling out, but I need to survive and all it requires is a gamble of time and at least hopefully getting some publicity even if the ETH bubble bursts.

    I’m not upset with Daz/Tafi offering NFTs but don’t think it should be HERE, just leave it on Tafi sites. Unless they are offering free minting to Daz users, taking a percentage, I don’t know why it’s even mentioned on this site. 

  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    Day 7 of this NFT crap still being promoted on the front page. Not amused.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,402

    Not touching NFTs with a ten foot pole.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    TesseractSpace said:

    Not touching NFTs with a ten foot pole.

    Or indeed any length.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,036

    ...well it looks as if another sch...er..."rollout" has captured everyone's attention.

    Still dreaming of an actual useful search routine in the forums and store someday.

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,515

    Khai-J-Bach said:

    so.... reading that article.. my takeaway is, the whole NFT idea is a scam....

     

    Yup. It's basically just a self-referential certificate of authenticity. 

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727

    Paintbox said:

    Day 7 of this NFT crap still being promoted on the front page. Not amused.

    Day 4 of not making any purchases at daz3d. Still have a long way to go.

  • Deadly BudaDeadly Buda Posts: 155

    Here are some alternative thoughts about NFTs:

    1. I think the "resource/energy hog" argument isn't that great. Any human or animal activity can be criticized for using energy, and depending on your bias, too much energy. Cryptomining I'm guessing uses less energy to validate economic transactions worldwide than a small town's brick and mortar banks, their connected banks, constructions firms, etc.

    2. How many digital files have you lost over the years from disk failures? Water or fire damage, maybe you just thought it was a good idea to wipe those 250mb zip discs in 1997 to make more room for your excel files or something... NFTs can go a long way to preserve digital files longer because people care.

    3. The art can be animated. A plus for Dazzers.

    4. It is a way for a person to confirm their support of certain art they hold dear. And being a confirmed holder confirms some status that could be beneficial to the purchaser, artist and public in the long and short run.

    5. Everyone collects stuff that other people find silly. Baseball cards, comic books, modern art, cabbage patch kids, beanie babies, etc. This is just another collectible getting its round of hype.

    6. NFTs could really be good for Daz artists, so I think Daz is doing a favor to its buyers by getting them more familiar with this marketplace and concept. Sure, the execution could maybe be better, but there are always mistakes with anything new.

  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 787
    edited April 2021

    Deadly Buda said:

    Here are some alternative thoughts about NFTs:

    1. I think the "resource/energy hog" argument isn't that great. Any human or animal activity can be criticized for using energy, and depending on your bias, too much energy. Cryptomining I'm guessing uses less energy to validate economic transactions worldwide than a small town's brick and mortar banks, their connected banks, constructions firms, etc.

    2. How many digital files have you lost over the years from disk failures? Water or fire damage, maybe you just thought it was a good idea to wipe those 250mb zip discs in 1997 to make more room for your excel files or something... NFTs can go a long way to preserve digital files longer because people care.

    3. The art can be animated. A plus for Dazzers.

    4. It is a way for a person to confirm their support of certain art they hold dear. And being a confirmed holder confirms some status that could be beneficial to the purchaser, artist and public in the long and short run.

    5. Everyone collects stuff that other people find silly. Baseball cards, comic books, modern art, cabbage patch kids, beanie babies, etc. This is just another collectible getting its round of hype.

    6. NFTs could really be good for Daz artists, so I think Daz is doing a favor to its buyers by getting them more familiar with this marketplace and concept. Sure, the execution could maybe be better, but there are always mistakes with anything new.

    I am curious, have you actually read this thread? All of your points have been addressed here.

    1. One artist was shocked to discover that selling 6 NFTs consumed enough energy to run his studio for 2 years. Crypto mining in general uses a lot more energy than you realize.

    https://www.wired.com/story/nfts-hot-effect-earth-climate/

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/

    https://digiconomist.net/ethereum-energy-consumption/

    2 & 3. An NFT does NOT contain the art work or digital file. It only contains a blockchain with the location/web address of the art work. If something happens to the website or server, the link and NFT are useless.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdj79/peoples-expensive-nfts-keep-vanishing-this-is-why?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB posted earlier by nicstt

    4. Anyone can create an NFT of anything, so there is no guarantee that the person selling an NFT is the actual artist, or that the artist is getting any money from the NFT.

    6. Late last week, it cost $150 to create an NFT. With no guarantee that a particular NFT will sell, it is a very expensive investment for the potential of no sales.

    Please read the entire discussion, or at least the last 3-4 pages. NFTs really are that bad for the environment, are not that good for most artists, and don't actually store the art they are linked to.

    Post edited by Zylox on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    +What Zylox said, PLUS there are tons of other options to support artists : buy from the actual shops like Daz3D, support or buy on Patreon, DeviantArt, Etsy and similar websites, which is a lot less speculative.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited April 2021

    Deadly Buda said:

    Here are some alternative thoughts about NFTs:

    1. I think the "resource/energy hog" argument isn't that great. Any human or animal activity can be criticized for using energy, and depending on your bias, too much energy. Cryptomining I'm guessing uses less energy to validate economic transactions worldwide than a small town's brick and mortar banks, their connected banks, constructions firms, etc.

    2. How many digital files have you lost over the years from disk failures? Water or fire damage, maybe you just thought it was a good idea to wipe those 250mb zip discs in 1997 to make more room for your excel files or something... NFTs can go a long way to preserve digital files longer because people care.

    3. The art can be animated. A plus for Dazzers.

    4. It is a way for a person to confirm their support of certain art they hold dear. And being a confirmed holder confirms some status that could be beneficial to the purchaser, artist and public in the long and short run.

    5. Everyone collects stuff that other people find silly. Baseball cards, comic books, modern art, cabbage patch kids, beanie babies, etc. This is just another collectible getting its round of hype.

    6. NFTs could really be good for Daz artists, so I think Daz is doing a favor to its buyers by getting them more familiar with this marketplace and concept. Sure, the execution could maybe be better, but there are always mistakes with anything new.

    1. Please provide evidence; 'think' is guesswork, as you clearly state later in this particular point. There is lots of evidence that it uses a lot of energy. I haven't seen any that it doesn't; there aren't even any dubious evidential examples that I've come across so far.

    2. Do some damn backups; in more than one place - online / offline.

    3. Point. Not one I'm interested in that often, but still valid for some - that would be presuming they worked that way.

    4. Not the only way, and a very expensive way.

    5. No argument about that; but bloody hell, the cost.

    6. 'doing a favour'? err nope, its a way of making money for some (maybe only the few) that Daz hope to capitalise on - they are a business after all.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 903
    edited April 2021

    Deadly Buda said:

    Here are some alternative thoughts about NFTs:

    1. I think the "resource/energy hog" argument isn't that great. Any human or animal activity can be criticized for using energy, and depending on your bias, too much energy. Cryptomining I'm guessing uses less energy to validate economic transactions worldwide than a small town's brick and mortar banks, their connected banks, constructions firms, etc.

    2. How many digital files have you lost over the years from disk failures? Water or fire damage, maybe you just thought it was a good idea to wipe those 250mb zip discs in 1997 to make more room for your excel files or something... NFTs can go a long way to preserve digital files longer because people care.

    3. The art can be animated. A plus for Dazzers.

    4. It is a way for a person to confirm their support of certain art they hold dear. And being a confirmed holder confirms some status that could be beneficial to the purchaser, artist and public in the long and short run.

    5. Everyone collects stuff that other people find silly. Baseball cards, comic books, modern art, cabbage patch kids, beanie babies, etc. This is just another collectible getting its round of hype.

    6. NFTs could really be good for Daz artists, so I think Daz is doing a favor to its buyers by getting them more familiar with this marketplace and concept. Sure, the execution could maybe be better, but there are always mistakes with anything new.

    1. Every NFT transaction (mining, bidding, cancelling a bid, buying, transferring, etc.) takes on average over 48kWh of power, more than the average US household in a day, and in total more than most countries. There is not enough energy on this planet if a large portion started trading NFTs and we want to keep the current standard of living.

    2. There are better ways to make back-ups NFTs are not tools to make back-ups.

    3. So,...there are lot's of animaton packages.

    4.That is not how NFTs are being used, they are being used as a commodity for financial gain. Since NFTs are on the Ethereum blockchain, derivatives can more easily be created which make them better than Bitcoin to spectulate with capital as it allows more optons. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but NFTs are not being used as art investments, they are financial tools in practice.

    5. You can collect whatever you want, but when it impacts the world our kids are going to inherit this disproportionately, I think it's pretty immoral.

    6. Sure, driving up the price of GPUs makes me really greatfull.

    Post edited by BlueFingers on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633
    edited April 2021

    Also the nature of Bitcoin and Ethereum is that proof-of-work will only get more complex and needs more and more power, not less. So it isn't something that will solve itself, as it stands.

    Post edited by Paintbox on
  • markgoode77markgoode77 Posts: 343

    Deadly Buda said:

    Here are some alternative thoughts about NFTs:

    1. I think the "resource/energy hog" argument isn't that great. Any human or animal activity can be criticized for using energy, and depending on your bias, too much energy. Cryptomining I'm guessing uses less energy to validate economic transactions worldwide than a small town's brick and mortar banks, their connected banks, constructions firms, etc.

     

     

    From this morning's paper ( China's bitcoin mining threatens climate goals as energy consumption overtakes Italy and Spain (telegraph.co.uk) -it may be behind a paywall):

    Bitcoin mining in China will outstrip the energy consumption of European countries by 2024, scientists say, warning that the industry threatens climate change goals. 

    The process of "mining" the cryptocurrency, which involves powerful computers verifying transactions by solving puzzles, is energy intensive and in China has a significant carbon footprint because many of the miners are in areas dependent on coal for energy.

    The study, by academics at Tsinghua University and the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, and published in the journal Nature Communications, predicted that the energy usage of the Bitcoin blockchain would peak in 2024 at almost 297 terawatt-hours and generate 130.50 million metric tons of carbon emissions. 

    This would mean the industry ranks 12th in the world in terms of energy usage, ahead of Italy, Saudi Arabia and Spain, and just below the UK. It would also become more carbon-intensive than countries including Nigeria, Belgium and Qatar.   

    The authors suggest encouraging miners to move to areas dependent instead on hydro-electricity, warning that allowing the industry to continue unchecked could threaten climate goals that China has committed to meet under the Paris Agreement. 

    "Without any policy interventions, the carbon emission pattern of the Bitcoin blockchain will become a non-negligible barrier against the sustainability efforts of China.

    "The intensive Bitcoin blockchain operation in China can quickly grow as a threat that could potentially undermine the emission reduction effort taking place in the country," the paper says. 

    Bitcoin mining and its use by "green" companies such as electric car manufacturer Tesla has previously come under fire from critics due to its energy intensity.

    Last month Cambridge University academics said that the industry takes up more energy than Argentina, as its value hit a record high. It is still at close to peak levels.

    China's economy is currently heavily dependent on coal, the most carbon-intensive fossil fuel, but it is aiming to make 2020 its peak consumption year, and it has committed to carbon neutrality by 2060.

    I find that a bit worrying.

  • bytescapesbytescapes Posts: 1,841

    https://www.theonion.com/priceless-nft-artwork-vandalized-with-spray-paint-tool-1846574103

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,050

    Cryptocrap and NFT environmental issues  https://everestpipkin.medium.com/but-the-environmental-issues-with-cryptoart-1128ef72e6a3

    And https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/05/22/bitcoins-stupendous-power-waste-is-green-apparently-bad-excuses-for-proof-of-work/ 

  • Deadly BudaDeadly Buda Posts: 155

    Paintbox said:

    Also the nature of Bitcoin and Ethereum is that proof-of-work will only get more complex and needs more and more power, not less. So it isn't something that will solve itself, as it stands.

    NFTs don't use bitcoin and Ethereum is moving to proof-of-stake by 2023, thereby removing the proof-of-work argument in regards to nfts.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,402

    Deadly Buda said:

    Paintbox said:

    Also the nature of Bitcoin and Ethereum is that proof-of-work will only get more complex and needs more and more power, not less. So it isn't something that will solve itself, as it stands.

    NFTs don't use bitcoin and Ethereum is moving to proof-of-stake by 2023, thereby removing the proof-of-work argument in regards to nfts.

     

    From what I've seen Ethereum has been 'moving to proof-of-stake' for years, every time they bump it out further. 

This discussion has been closed.