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You use subD for artifacting in the preview window! I didn't want to get into some big debate the last time you posted this since I am tired of back and forths with the mods on what they consider personal attacks. I do closeups way tighter than that and do not need what you claim to need to get perfectly acceptable images.
As a visual artist who makes money from his art I hit upon this concept letting my renders run over night and not competing against them so they use all the resources they need. Maybe try that sometime.
BTW that bit of snark is because everyone here is a visual artist. So stop it.
No. Do not kid yourself. That was a 3950X running Crysis, a 13 year old game at sub 30 fps at IIRC something like 720p low. My 2070 runs it, 1080p all settings maxed (even the stupid ones like anti-aliasing), at 247fps.
Neither tech is standing still. but their domains are different and their is no impetus for CPU's to go too deeply into the GPGPU domain. We still need chips that can baton wave, talk to disks and external devices and all the other stuff that a GPGPU would just suck at. But if what you need is a few billion processes done in parellel on a matrix of values in a hurry, which is applicable across a surprising number of fields, then a GPGPU is just plain better.
Im just saying that it seems like pure CPU power is starting to get so good that it might be possible at some point in the near future for someone to game at maybe 720 or even 1080 without needing an APU at all. It would probably be decades before they could handle anything higher but it does seem like the pure processing power is starting to close the 1080p gap. Its not like 1080p games are going to get harder to render in the future since a pixel count is set and unchangable, the CPU calculations will probably get more complex but that would be about it.
Sure. That will happen. Eventually if all you care about is gaming you'll get some SOC and be set, all the enthusiasts will still get something else. That's the whole console peasants v PCMR debate. Consoles have been good enough, except for input devices, for most gaming for at least 15 years, but they aren't good enough for the rest. But if you look at what most people play they'd be more than enough. Same with that. But most GPGPU are not sold for gaming. Nvidia's stock price isn't driven at all by gaming card sales. They barely mention consumer card sales in their quarterly reports anymore. Why do you think their Ampere launch was all about AI supercomputing and not gaming?
Yeah they have moved on, for now though I just need to know where I should direct my money for a build. It looks like we will be getting another $2,900 very soon if they send a second round of stimulus so I might use that.
No, I get the same results from the full render and yeah, ideally, I would try that if I had the money for two computers, (Thanks again, for the idea as well for the Sub-D suggestion in our last exchange) also, the moderator's job is there for when people cannot remain civil when someone disagrees with them, so it's always a good idea to discuss it with them as that can be very helpful... Cheers!
See, I'm get into this back and forth. No one else get these artifacts you claim. I just did a couple of extreme closeups fo a CB fight and did not have any such issues and did not need subD 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or any such. You're claiming stuff that every other visual artist here knows is just flat not true. But you won't listen and this won't go anywhere and I will not stay "civil" because I won't put up with condescensing and P/A nonsense.
Please just don't interject into conversation of mine in the future k?
I apologize if it sounded as if I was being condescending, that was truly not my intention, I was being totally sincere, again, my apologies. But I still have the same issues as these fully rendered scenes (I took out the bump maps to better illustrate the issue) prove; sorry if I offended you...
I gotta agree with ya. If I had a do over, I woulda stuck with my i5 PC, maybe got a newer mobo, but not built a total new AMD system, and put most the money into GPU's. The only thing I notice any difference in other than benchmarks, is compressing stuff. Instead of taking 5 mins to compress a giant painting or whatever, it takes like a minute.
Im thinking of keeping my Ryzen 3 1200 for right now and just changing the mobo, PSU, and GPU. Its far cheaper to just jump into an RTX 2080Ti NVlink setup than it is to rebuild the whole system.
I have seen artifacts like that before, but mostly it was on thighs for me. I could never figure out exactly what causes it. Sometimes even just rendering again without changing a thing and they just vanished the next render.
Thanks for saying so, yeah for me it's the sub-d settings, the first pic I have it on level one, the second pic it's level 3, but as I've said before the issue will correct itself once I upgrade my 1080 to an RTX 3080ti!
The wait is excruciating however, especially since I have to live off of less than $300 for a few more months, maybe more as I might as well upgrade my 10 year old monitor to a 144hz as I also want to play Cyber Punk 2077 in all of it's glory!
Disclaimer: I have very little experience with IRay, but I've seen this in Cycles in Blender.
I think these artifacts have nothing to do with the subD level, but rather the normals which are messing up the shading. In Cycles, very similar artifacts occur when they're either missing, misconfigured, or not smoothed properly. That might be an area to investigate and exercise your IRay knowledge. I think bumping up the subD just alleviated the symptom, instead of addressing the root cause.
Thanks for the info, yes that does make much more sense, as the poly-count is sound and should not be rendering as though it was at base resolution, thanks a lot, this pretty much clears up my issue; at least I know the true cause in which to investigate!
You know this is why if you have an issue and don't just assume I need MOAR POWWEER!!!!! but that you messed something up someone who had the problem before might help.
iRay has bump maps, subD and displacement maps that all to some degree attempt to either create the appearance of surface texture or do so. Bump maps add no geometry so they have the least impact on VRAM, assuming you don't go crazy and assign 8k bumps everywhere, displacement maps come in next as they do create some geometry but that isn't that much and is only what the map dictates. SubD is the worst and flat quadruples each step up you guy even if the most of the surface flat, but in theory if you take the subD of a cube high enough and you'll get a sphere.
And normals which is just bad and I do wish people would stop using.
SubD makes great faces but I try to only use if for that, and that other spot on teh human body where consumer want lots of detail but I don't want the mods deleting this post.
I just wish more PA included displacement maps in their products.
It all depends where the price of Ethereum goes. It could skyrocket again for all we know. Or it could collapse. It is a gamble that's for sure.
My home office was an addition that was built by the previous owners. It has a gas heater that's expensive to run in the winter. And there's lots of windows. Let's just say it can get down to the 40s in that room on a cold winter day with no heat source. So I could tear it down and rebuild it properly, run the expensive gas heater, use an electric space heater or heat it with a GPU mining rig. So I took a gamble with the GPU rigs and it was a great excuse to build them. It keeps me busy and I just love assembling computers. Each rig has 13 GPUs so I was really just interested to see if I could get it all working lol! And I did.
I did not mine throughout the year - about 6-8 months per year. My peak payouts were 1 Ethereum per week. And the 3 rigs were enough to heat the entire house in the winter. We're located in the midwest and the winters can be brutal. So the money lost in electrical cost was offset somewhat in Ethereum payouts and reduced natural gas bills since the furnace was not needed. You'd be suprised how much heat 41 graphics cards and the associated hardware can generate. The rest of the house is insulated properly so the heat builds up fast. The biggest benefit for me was a comfortable home office. Prior to GPU mining I would sit here with cold fingers and only ran the space heater when I was in the space and it was not as effective as the GPU rig lol! Each rig consumes about 1600 watts. Total power consumption was a little over 5000 watts when everything was running. That's not too bad for 41 graphics cards mining. Each of the 3 rigs has 4 power supplies and they are hooked up to six APC UPS devices capable of powering 865 watts - two UPS backups per rig.
Now I am interested to see if I can repurpose these rigs for rendering. I'll be testing it. And if it works then I will for sure play around with Scene Optimizer since I am limited to 8 GB with the cards.
No, I'm not surprised how many watts 41 GPU can put out. I manage a datacenter. If I had the models I could probably tell you precisely. One of our largest costs is our AC bill.
The big issues with converting a mining rig to rendering are Nvidia only and the threads issue. You need one thread per GPU in iRay. Those mining motherboards are for some fairly old generations of CPU's and that limits you to some pretty low thread count CPU's. Last time I looked at this it seemed like the i7's from that generation were not going to be enough to run a fully populated mining board.
In Iray both SubD and dispalcement work with actual divisions, unlike 3Delight, so their impact is the same - or may be worse with displacement if the dispalcement subdivision level on surfaces is set to higher than the Render Division level for SubD (the model will be divided to the maximum value of the node property and all the surface properties, which is why the node property has minimum in its label).
Iray (and 3Delight) also use normal maps, which have much the same benefits and drawbacks as bump maps.
It was my understanding that displacement maps did not create geometry if the map did not indicate any was needed. If the map is white, or whatever is neutral in that map space, should it not create no geometry at all? If not what is the point? If it is just create a bunch of useless geometry and then orient based on the maps that is a terrible and useless thing.
The map doesn't create anything, Iray uses it to determine how far to move each vertex along its normal (between the minimum and maximum offsets) by getting the value of the map at the vertex's UV coordinates. The mesh is created, using the division settings, before the displacement is applied.
Then that is truly stupid. SubD + normal should do that. The whole argument of adding displacement was that it would be better than that.
Normals do not move geometry, they cheat the facing for the purposes of determining illumination. Yes, for a lot of us the way I ray handles dispalcement was a major weakness - especially when it was new and most models were made for 3Delight and expected to be able to apply displacement to a limited area of a model with large polygons (e.g. a floor) without having to worry about the effect of divisions on the over all polygon count.
Maybe it works differently in IRay, but in Blender a displacement map works just like @Richard Haseltine says in that it doesn't actually add any geometry, or rather it does, but non-destructively at render time, but you have to subdivide the surface first, in order to give it enough vertices to be able to make a difference. There was a Blender Guru video on this, whose link I can't remember.
Displacement maps are much better than normal maps because, as @Richard Haseltine also pointed out, since normal maps don't move any geometry, the have no effect whatsoever when the surface is parallel to the line of sight. A displacement map still works in those situations. But much like 4K maps, the extra geometry is only worth it in certain situations, and a normal map is a good enough cheat.
You mean this video? And thanks Richard for the explanation!
Not that one, although it was pretty interesting :) It had something to do with creating realistic ground.
Oh, you mean this one, or this?
Imagine tesselation for skin textures, looks like I'm going to have to learn blender as this is amazing tech!
OT: I've been checking out 2080ti prices and they're currently being gouged at $1.4k-$1.6k now, though I was able to find this open boxed one for a decent price, just get a warranty on it though as stock on these cards are being depleted quick!
2080ti stocks look to be nearly depleted. This lends credence to the theory that Ampere will be announced in august and the 3080ti euivalent will come out in early September. however it also implies there will be no stock of low cost 2080ti's to snatch up.
Yep, according to this site new 2080ti GPUs are completely depleted, it looks like there's nothing but overpriced used GPUs that are glutting the stores right now, (I still don't trust ebay as far as expensive goods are concerned) so that open box version was the only thing that I could find at a reasonable price though my search wasn't exhaustive, so I'm certain that one can find one refurbished at a decent price!
I will wait 'til the AIB partners come out before dropping my savings for my 3080ti, so maybe in October/November as I want to do it early enough to avoid the price gouging in later months, and late enough for the AIB partners to work out the inevitable kinks as I don't want to be in a situation of an RMA due to the inevitable stock shortages, as this is an extremely anticipated GPU launch!
Just wait till Q1 2020. If these launch for q4 they will hit the stores/online in a big way. There will be lots of stock in January or the AIB's will have messed up badly. That's means if not sales at least cards for MSRP.
But hold on till an actuall announcment this could still just be messed up supply chain from covid.
Yes, I believe it was the first one. If you're going to learn Blender, you can't go wrong with his "Donut" tutorial, and later searching on Blender Nation for specific things is a useful strategy. Knock yourself out!