What Daz lacks clothes vs poses
Hi Friends, over time I've discovered DS content lacks clothes morphs for poses. Characters can be morphed, posed, etc.... but clothing never fits correctly, regardless of how dials are changed. Truly frustrating.
I believed my most challanging moment with DS would be lighting. Not !
It's trying to conform clothes to characters. In most cases clothing works fine in standing position, but any other pose position clothing goes severly out of wack. This is the main reason, I refrain from purchasing any clothing products. I've tried different clothing, including dynamic, dials never work to my advantage. I spend more time posing characters to clothes then clothes to character.
If anyone has ever taken notice, all the characters in DS store are standing. I've viewed many images at galleries, majority of the characters are standing, portrait renders, sitting in leggings, shorts, bikini's, etc.....
I've taken time to learn deformer tool, but can be very time consuming. There has to be software out there, to redesign clothing to fit with poses. Just venting, but if anyone is interested in chiming in, that's cool.
A good example would be V4 wearing a long skirt riding a horse. Skirt would become part of horse, going through horse, opposed to around saddle.
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I'm kinda new too. Some clothes do work better than others. I've been working with Genesis and G2F clothes mostly. I think it does a better job with poses than some of the V4 stuff. I admit I have not tried to put anyone on a horse though. My daughter has Pale Shadows and she has yet to mess it up. Wish they all worked like that one.
One trick to having fewer problems with clothes is to turn off the offending body part causing poke through.
Also, many clothes have dynamic poses that allow you to adjust for sitting, wind, walking, etc.
One other technique is to "cheat" (just don't shoot from that angle).
Well the issue is the Creator just never thought of the user tossing that Dress on a figure riding a horse. Most clothing is made for everyday use, standing, maybe sitting if that's thought of, reclining poses seem covered most times but not all. It's very hard to think of every use a User might put an item too. And then adding all those morphs take time which to a Artist (PA) equals final cost of item when sold. A PA may decide on a cost for the item from the very start and only put as much work into a item for that price to be good to the User and good for them.
In the Real world of the past few females wore a dress of any type if they planned to ride a horse that day. They either wore slacks or the Sold for horse riding split skirts. Hopping on a hose in a dress was more a reason to ride side saddle and that even started the sale of the Side Saddle just for that type of riding. Do not blame a artist for not thinking of every use a item could be put to.
Nothing made item wise is going to be 100% compatible with every idea the end user may think to put it to. It is at times such as this the user needs to step in and learn how to do somethings for themselves. For example Deformers have been in DAZ Studio from the old DS3 Days or before and made just for such uses. In the new DAZ Studio 4.5+ the user now has access to every tool the PA's do except one that I know of. The reason those are now included is two fold, just so the User can edit (fix) the content to do things with th content the PA's did not include, and two, So Users can possibly get so good at creating things on their own that they may wish to become a Published Artist.
Expecting things to do everything out of the box at the cost of the items is simply not going to happen. Even I can not nor would I try to think of every use another might use a item for. That would run the cost of the item sky high and I may never consider a item finished. There would always be just one more thing that would need added to the item for it to be complete.
This is My personal view as a user who has and does create content for my personal use and a few times in the past for others use.
Thanx for the feedback friends. Yes, anything is possible, if an individual puts forth the effort. But, clothing fashions varies through out time in history. Ancient Egyptians, including males wore skirts, robes etc....... During Eygptians times, Egyptians rode horses, horse chariots. Same with Greeks, Scottsman in the movie Braveheart wore Kilts and rode horses, same with movie Gladiator and the list goes on.
I am trying to build a scene with Egyptian queen or Gladiator riding a horse, skirt is wacked !!
During those phases of history, pants, riding pants, etc... were not in existence. So, the PA whom creates fashions for these time periods, should design clothes for the time period.
Most Pharoah's, King's, Queens, sat on thrones. I have Egyptian Queen & Prop, when she sits, her skirt flips up, trying to adjust skirt goes up/down like a fan, no curves at all. No curve morph, to curve over chair edge, or skirt goes straight through throne, etc.... Yes, clothing can be edited with photoshop. But, the point I'm trying to make is, DS users shouldn't have to go searching for answers to clothes malfunction. I'm sure, I'm not the only one that feels this way.
That's the reason, I was wondering if there is software to adjust the mesh on clothing, import/export to DS.
Thanx for the tips friend :-)
The Dirt Cheap Poke Away products are built just for poke through as well. They do things turning off parts just can not do. Are sets for Genesis and the G2's.
Lol ! Jade calm down. I'm sippin coffee, kick'd back in my chair, givin my DS brain a break. As I stated in my original post, I used D-Former tool, but very time consuming.
Remember I'm a newbie ;-) How do I add new movement bones ? What is weight map brush and how to use ?
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/start
And for deformers here are the two best I have found on them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7SEBV2GHJHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Srsy-iDzQw#t=36
I learned much from both.
EDIT To Add: I also own both the PDF books on rigging sold here at DAZ Studio, the truth is I've not looked at either one. I just thought I wanted to build stuff until I started doing it. It seems I just do not have the desire to go that far. Yet.
As I've shared before, I have no patience, Lol !! Thanx for the help Jade. I'll check into the info. Frustrating at times, but I enjoy tinkering on DS ;-)
Aave Nainen's products, here in the DAZ store, includes clothing morphs to give realistic draping with poses included with the products or with selected pose products in the DAZ store. The product descriptions clearly state which poses the clothing morphs are designed to work with.
Some of the product descriptions includes a demo video on how to use the clothing, poses and clothing morphs.
When I make my freebie clothes I add ghost bones to all skirts, coats etc so that they can be moved to fit the pose if possible. As Jaderail has said , it takes time to learn.
Problem comes when you move the skirt sides too far apart, then you get the texture stretching down the middle, and I haven't solved that one yet.
I was just about to compliment the collection of Wilmap stuff at sharecg, lol. I have never seen that distorted texture patron effect with Wilmap's cloths yet, even when I copy her patrons from one item to another.
I am a beginner, and have not fussed with skirts that much yet. As for the pants and swimsuits, I have yet to notice 'Poke-through' with posing characters more naturally. I had noticed poke-through or overlap-mess between the JS-pants, and the t-shirt, and Jaderail's suggestion of using a 'body suit' may help with that (I haven't had a chance to try that yet).
I also read about something called 'collision something', tho I have no idea how it works or if it is only for objects pressing against the body. I don't even remember if that was a poser or studio effect for "fist against side of face skin deform efect" stuff. I read that many cups of coffee ago.
granted, I have yet to work with balance-beam or 'floor' routine poses yet, so I have not experienced this myself yet. Especially if it only happens with extreme joint positions like ballet toes.
So the thought is... Put a body suit over the figure, then put the cloths on the body suit, then enable 'collision detection' between the body suit and the cloths. At least in brief thought, that should then force the cloth away from the body wherever the body is to close to the cloth?
I'm new to this, so this is not a rhetorical Question, but could the model/item be exported to Blender, adjusted and brought back?
One thing I would like to do when I get a little more familiar with daze is lengthen some (most) of the skirts on the dresses I have bought to something not quite a mini - that a real world woman might actually wear.
So I'm interested in this thread.
I so second that.
Even if the skirt could be lengthen to halfway down the thigh, like a 'real' short skirt instead of the hide nothing length some are in. I may find something in Wilmap's collection now that I have a chance to look and the RAM in the computer to work with more of her stuff. Perhaps an almost knee length Scottish Kilt, or the roman solder (I don't know what it is called), or a poodle skirt of sorts.
Thanks Wilmap, "Genesis-2-Female-Short-Skirt-Jumper"... Yes!
Lol, I started making content for Studio for that exact reason........I don't have the patience to use handles and ghost bones to try and make a garment look right. Here's a link that demos the first dress I did for Studio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU-NkIzRYWw
If I need something lengthened I use a Dformer.
And real women do wear short - really short skirts sometimes.
The "Genesis 2 Female RaRa Skirt & Top" also looks like a good contender as well. Let me toss this Wilmap stuff in to Daz Studio, and see how that works out with "Acro" ("Front aerial" or "Valdez").
(Images from Wikipedia)
I see exactly what y'all are talking about, without going to dancing extremes.
The cloth on her right leg is not flowing past the knee to fill the void, with this almost take-a-knee pose. The cloth is completely breaking Space-time, Zathras would be impressed, lol.
As for Maggie in the background with the short Wilmap skirt, I have yet to try to get the skirt to flow with the motion she is in the middle of.
for such extreme poses such as riding a horse in the skirt the most obvious answer is
optitex DYNAMIC CLOTHING
Optitex has a number of freebies plus there is a great set of shapes not rigged to any figure in the store you can colour to match a hidden skirt on a dress fitted after freezing the sim.
You can use an animated drape to sit her on the horse.
I'll have to look into that 'Dynamic Clothing', especially if I can make it work with other skirts and stuff.
Now to be fair to Wilmap, and show what is missing with cloth a bit better. Here is 'G2F7W' wearing that long skirt with matching top and patrons. That is a nice pink, if I may say so.
It is not just the stretched spandex-like texture. The skirt is not piling up on the floor, it is going right into it.
you can only use Optitex clothing in DS
but as I suggested hide original skirts and colour it to match.
OptiTex; The User of this content is only purchasing the right to use the contents, not ownership of the actual files and may not redistribute this archive file, in whole or in part and may not store it any place on a network or...
So there is no way Wilmap could use that with her stuff?
So I can't use a 3Delight cluster with this? Not an issue at the moment, however I was contemplating that option.
My workstation is in a Network, I foresee problems with there Terms Of Use.
That and it looks like all there stuff is for figures two generations older then what I have to work with.
Only Optitex has the tools to create DAZ Studio Dynamic clothing (we could buy it but it costs $13000.00 US).
The Generation and or figure really does not matter for DAZ Studio Dynamic items. Most can be forced on any figure with a few tricks. As the Item has no clue Who it was made for, just based from that shape when made. A Frozen Drape works well in many uses as Wendy said.
The Free Optitex content carries the Same EULA as the DAZ Studio content (basically) by the way. I have a huge collection of the free items.
I have never really got the optitex stuff to work well. Something is always sticking out lol. I might try messing with it Jade if you say you can work around it.
One thing I do is the Default T pose for Both items. I then will Position the Dynamic item as Close to that pose as possible, note some clothing items do not load in T but with arms sort of down, I then pose the figures arms for a close match. I use the Perspective View and Zooming to get in good and close for all this. I then scale the Dynamic item UP in Parameters until it sort of fits the figure in the T pose or Arm Down Pose, perfect is not needed here but you want the neck in the neck hole and the hands or Arms in the Sleeve openings and the body out the Bottom. Try to keep poke through way from those areas. I then will do a Animated Drape to my final pose. The Dynamic item is set to collide with the figure, it will shrink back to its normal size until it collides, so keep scaling as low as possible or you may get bunching at tight areas. I also have the Full Dynamic Plugin which allows the user to edit how soft a fabric will be. That will help some items to fit better.
All this took about a day of playing and I was using Dynamics if I wanted to. I find it a bit to much work for full Animation. My first intent, but still like what can be done with Dynamics. Many of my Clothed and Semi Clothed renders of Bruuna in my DeviantArt account use dynamics in them. Not one of them were post worked in. All are DAZ Studio renders.
That was part of my hesitation of giving it a try here, the comments about missing files and things not working. Tho I suspect it has something to do with where the ziips were extracted to.
As for dynamics in static scenes, how do you tell the item where Gravity is, and what the angular acceleration, velocity and displacement is?
Maggie in that pic, is in the middle of a revers baseball pitch of sorts (catching a sphere to spin and toss it back). that skirt should be twisting up, and hanging off to her right a bit.
I did find one free V5 outfit, that I may somehow be able to force the config to work with V6, without buying another mountain of stuff. (the RAM/Win7/SSD cost much more then I expected this month, plus a surprise heating fuel bill). Granted that Vest for M4 dose look good, page six into the store there and nothing beyond gen4.
If I copy the zip contents into my library, and it completely fails, how do I uninstall the stuff without turning CMS into a pretzel? again.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/590210/
The skirt will go through the floor because the collision settings are set to the figure. Unfortunately you can't set more than one collision.
Only thing I can think of is to either move the floor down or the figures up.
One Collision interface/boundary. Now that sounds quite limited for a 3D software package (thinking of all the NIST/NTSB simulations of stuff breaking). I need coffee, it's to early here. I was going to try that bubble/D-form thing on the skirt at the floor, there has got to be a way to make this work without costing 13grand.
In the air as a somewhat pounce was my initial intention with that pose (landing from a 'Front Arial' or 'Vault routine'). Then questions of cloth on floor came to mind.
I would use Dformers to solve a problem like you have.