Moving a figure or any part of it completely mangles it
lamoid_5f20d3e469
Posts: 297
I mean, "what the...?" Please look at the attached image and tell me why this happens. One tug on a single slider in the parameters tab completels mangles the figure. Undos will not reverse the trashing. The only way to get my figure back is to reload the scene file. This is frustrating, to say the least. Maddening is more accurate.
2019-04-15_212935.png
538 x 835 - 139K
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Which figure is it?
It is a Genesis 8 figure, Richard.
Is it any slider, or some sliders, or a specific slider? If it's a specific slider or only some sliders, morphs or transforms?
Any slider does it. But here's a another clue: I have the toulouse hair parented to the head of the figure. Whenever I select the figure itself and move any slider, it is the hair that reacts --that moves -- rather than the figure, When I release the slider the figure explodes. But the hair does not. Also her eyeballs move and do not change (except of course the are displaced from the body!) It looks like somehow the program thinks that the hair hase precedence over the body.
Not much help I am afraid, but I have just loaded G8F, given her Toulouse hair and .. all is well, any slide, transaltio or morph I have tried, works without issue. The figure in your image looks to have a pose applied, does it happen without that?
I think your content is corrupt in soem way. You could try clearing the DSON cache (Edit>Preferences).
Thank you very much for your help, Richard and Simon. I cannot figure out why this is happening. A possibly related anomaly: I am unable to select any single part of the figure or the figure itself. I've submitted a support ticket. I'll reply back to this thread with a resolution. if and when they find one The text of my support request follows:
Daz 3d studio v 4.10.0.123. This is happening with figures in most of my scenes: I lose the ability to select any part of the figure or the figure itself. (Nothing has been set to not select -- an x instead of a check -- on anything). Then if I adjust a parameter for the figure using a slider on the parameters pane the entire figure becomes mangled. The only way to unmangle it is to close the scene and reopen it. The only way to get back the ability to select the figure or one of its parts it so start completely over again from scratch. I've done this now three times. Eventually I will lose the ability to select and any change in the figure's shape or pose using a slider causes it to explode. Curiously, if I enter a number directly rather than using a slider, to pose the figure, it does not completely explode but it detaches the body part. If I adjust a shape with the slider the figure self-destructs. If I type a number in, the shape does not change. I've included a set of images that show the problem when trying to chage a pose. The first one is the figure upon opening the scene. After using the left thigh bend side-to-side slider the figure explodes. This is shown in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th figures from different angles. I reloaded the scene then typed a number into the left thigh bend side-to-side parameter. Picture 5 shows the result. No explosion but the thigh has become detached from the body.
Honestly, this is maddening. I can do nothing with the figures after I woprk with them for a while. Daz studio and everything I've purchased appears to be completely useless to me at the moment.
Please tell me how to fix this problem!
Thank you!
The selection issue may be unrelated - which tool is active (checked in the Tools menu)?
Richard, in all cases the universal tool was active.
Through experimentation, I have caused this to happen repeatably, reliably although with two different outcomes.
I have the teen josie 8 figure and the SC Lucy character for the TJ 8 figure
1. start new scene
2. merge in Genesis 8 Female
3. shaping: SC Lucy body is set to 100, teen josie 8 body is set to 50%, and SC Lucy is set to 100%. I did not do this; it was this way upon loading the genesis 8 female.
4. parameters: verify that neck lower bends as expected
5. with genesis 8 female selected, merge in toulouse hair for genesis 8
6. parameters: verify that neck lower bends as expected and moves the hair with it as expected
7. add a spotlight with a persistant point-at target
8. parameters: verify that neck lower bends as expected and moves the hair with it as expected
9. select spotlight 1 and change spread angle lower
10. turn default camera headlamp to on (this has no effect on the results; on to see better what happens.)
11. select neck lower
12. case 1: use slider to change neck bend. the figure mangles and stays that way -- even undo's will not recover the figure geometry.
13. case 2: use slider to change neck bend. As long as the slider is selected the entire figure collapses into a mess of connected polygons. When the slide is released, the mess disappears but only the hair and eyballs have moved. the figure is in the original position and no longer moveable
When repeating this, sometimes case 1 happens, other times case 2. I must be doing something different for the two cases but I cannot tell what that is.
I have appended this to the ticket I submitted on Wednesday 24 April. I have received no response other than the 2 standard acknowledgement emails.
@lamoid_5f20d3e46
Out of curiosity, did you ever try to render the "mess of polygones"? A similar thing happens for me when loading certain subsets, the characters just fall apart, but they still render correctly, only in the viewport they are completely messed up, it's impossible to work with them as you can't see what you're doing. My workaround is to reload the characters and they will be fine, if I have done changes to poses and shapes I need to save as pose/shaping presets before I delete the characters and reload them,so I can reapply the changes.( These issues will be saved with a scene, so saving as a scene and restarting will not help). Clothing can be fitted to none and unparented, then refitted to the reloaded characters. It seems to be only Genesis characters that are affected, never had these problems with for example Gen4 characters
No, I have not tried rendering the mess, Sven. I try that to see what happens. I do save poses and shapes, but they do not always load correctly either. Ususally when reloding the pose, the neck pose returns to zero, despite the fact that it was not zeroed when I saved it. And reloading the shape dose not apply all the morphs that I had dialed in when I saved the shaping.
Based on my experience Daz Studio 4.10 is a very, seriously bug-ridden program. I guess you get what you pay for.
Hmm that's very odd, my poses and shaping presets always load correctly.(even if derived from a corrupt figure) But yeah strange things do happen in the DS Universe, as we can see:) Your problem may well be totally unrelated to my issues, but there are lots of similarities. For example, when this happens, and I use the universal tool to drag a body part, the eyeballs and parts of the mouth remain in place. Also the skin gets a strange shine in the viewport (texture shaded), that tells me the figure will collapse when manipulated.
Richard may well be right that some content is corrupt and needs re-installing...let us know if you find something out.
To answer your first question, Sven: 'did you ever try to render the "mess of polygones"?' Yes. I am doing so right now. It does appear to render correctly. But of course, since I cannot get visual feedback for any changes I make. The studio program is essentially useless.
Still no response to my ticket submitted on this. Do you suppose that Daz is actually trying to find a fix? Or is my ticket so far down in thier queue that they haven't even looked at it yet?
Ok that's interesting. You mentioned loading/creating a spotlight. Does this happen only if you load the spotlight? I have a feeling this bug is related to certain lighting, only guessing of course, but I recall turning off some lights, or doing some changes to light parameters and after that things got messed up. Are you using IRay or 3DL? I use 3DL and suspect that the AoA lights are causing this.
Well I honestly don't know. I've made a few bug reports and generally they have been very helpful, but I know there are open tickets that are many years old, probably meaning they don't know how to deal with them, so...I suggest you give them some time and we'll try to find more clues in the meantime. If they can't replicate the issue it's very hard to find a fix.
Sven, the problem occurs when I adjust the width of a spotlight. If I load a spotlight and do not change the beam width from the default 60%, then everything is ok. If I change the beam width, the problem occurs. That may not be the only thing that causes it. But it is one that I found that reliably does cause it.
I use IRay.
I added step-by-step instructions on how to recreate the problem as I listed above. Of course that is on my system. But since I have not heard from them, I do not know if those instructions enabled the support person to replicate it.
Thank you very much, Sven, for taking an interest in my problem. I greatly appreciate your advice and the time you have taken to think about the problems!
Alan
Thanks for bringing this up, atleast we now know it's happening regardless of render engine, also I mostly use Genesis 1, so it's not a specific G8 issue, and we seem to agree that spotlights have a part in this;) I'll do some testing and post here if I find out something new. It's a very annoying thing, but haven't done a bug report, as I kind of found a way to get around it. Also tks for your detailed step by step instruction, it will be useful:)
Sven, I've managed to get this as simple as (I think) possible. I zeroed all the morphs in the genesis 8 female so that it loads in completely stock form. Then I merge in the G8 toulouse hair. Then I added a spotlight with a point-at target. Bending works w/o problems at this point. Then I adjust the beam width using the slider. Then with the slightest adjustment to any parameter slider, the character becomes a bad Duchamp knock-off:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c0/Duchamp_-_Nude_Descending_a_Staircase.jpg/800px-Duchamp_-_Nude_Descending_a_Staircase.jpg
Nice render indeed
Did you manage to get any other basefigures to explode (G3,G2), when adjusting the spotlight? Did you try another hair? Does it happen if you fit a hair to the basefigure instead of parenting it? Sorry I've been busy doing some other things but will look into it probably tomorrow...I read through your posts one more time, you say that entering a number works, whick is rather odd...hmm one more thing, what else is there in your scene, instances, props? Or just the character with the hair and a spot?
Did you try this with a spotlight as the OP describes?
Excellent questions, Sven. I'll try your suggestions tomorrow.
Simon is correct that the first example I gave had posing and shaping. But the last trial I ran was pure stock, nothing altered. No props. Minimal. Stock G8F, Toulous hair parented; one spotlight with point-at enabled at creation. That's it.
I'll let you know what I find tomorrow.
Ok I did a bit of testing with the AoA spot, as I've had problems not only with characters, but also subsets I've created seem to fall apart, not sure how this relates to your specific problem but spotlights and spread angle obviously are what's causing issues for us both.
Here's a subset I created using Mclean's bedsit + a number of props parented to the room figure, and an AoA spot. With a spread angle of 180 I can move around and rotate the room and everything works, props will follow as expected.
If I increase the spread angle to 180.01 things break. Here's a screenshot after rotating the room figure -20 degrees along the y-axis:
Now, when things are broken, if I load a character it will work fine but the room is not poseable. If I do the opposite and first load the character, then the set, the characters gets messed up as well. Here's what happens when grabbing the head and dragging:
However, if I set the AoA spot spread angle to 180 or less, then pose either the room or the character, they will snap back to normal. (The AoA spot allows for a 360 degree spread to mimic pointlights)
This is obviously just a viewport thing, as the scene renders fine.
I loaded a G3F and parented the toulouse hair to her head without fitting, then loaded the same subset. When I rotated the head only the hair moved. Fitting the hair to G3F made the problem go away.
Couldn't replicate the issue using a DS standard spot, so far, this was the AoA light with 3Delight as the selected render engine. Anyway, now I know what has been causing my problems, will file a bugreport when I've done some more testing;) I'll try changing to IRay and play with a spotlight, will report my findings here...
Mac user, have no idea about driverversions:) Tks for the suggestion, but I doubt it has anything to do with the issues I'm experiencing. They only occur with the AoA spotlights. I use DS4.9 and 4.10beta, same thing happens in both. I also have an old laptop with 4.7 installed, just tested loading a character, fitted some clothing, loaded an AoA spot, set light spread to 181, mesh explodes the same way.
Well thanks to the OP, I found a new and better workaround, just set lightspread to 180 or less, pose/place my characters and stuff, adjust lightspread and render;) Btw, the other AoA light work fine,(distant, ambient).
ETA: I should add that wireframe mode looks right, but everything that involves shading looks messed up.
Thank you, Sven. I greatly appreciate the time you've taken to help me!
The problem you demonstrate is very similr to mine in that the objects attached to the figure move without the figure moving. I've attached a minimal scene that exhibits the problem. I made it like this: (1) New Scene. (2) Load G8F figure. (3) load spotlight. (4) reduce with of spotlight beam from 60% to about 10%. (5) Save scene.
Thats it. If next I select the figure's lower neck and rotate it using the slider, the eye balls and eye lashes rotate, the figure does not. The instant I let go of the slider, the figure explodes.
You are correct, Sven, I believe. This is a viewport issue because the figure renders fine. But, of course, it makes editing impossible once a spotlight has be loaded and its beam adjusted.
Thanks Again!
Alan
Also I just verified that the figure looks fine in any viewport mode that does not include shading. The figure is mangled only in the shaded viewport modes.
Received this message from Amy at Daz a few days ago:
Amy Ungricht, May 9, 13:25 MDT:
Hello,
I was able to reproduce this both on my computer and with your file. This has been reported to our bug tracker, and I will let you know what our QA says about this issue.
Thank you,
Amy
Very nice! Thank you also:)
OK so. The easy way to fix this problem is to use Daz Studio 4.11 pro public beta which does not exhibit the behavior. All's fine there. (Right now!)
Sometimes when I get unitended figure distortions I have been able to "fix" the problem by putting the figure inside a group. By that I mean: select the figure, and then go the the "create" menu and select "group". This will "wrap" the figure inside a group object. It tends to isolate the figure from weird influences from the rest of the scene. This has so far worked every time I tried it.
Good tip, Lukon100. I'll try that.