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Normal Vs. Bump maps.

pfunkyfizepfunkyfize Posts: 491
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Hi all,

I am texturing out my first product with bump maps and came across normal maps. Can anyone tell me when I should use normal maps vs bump maps or do I use them both at the same time when texturing an item, etc.

Thanks!

Comments

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,270

    It's obviously a complex topic, but they provide similar functions. Normal maps use RGB data that corresponds with the x,y,z axis in 3d space whereas bump maps are greyscale lighting trickery. I find bump maps work quite well for very fine detail (skin pores) but normals are a step ahead in hard surface projects (sci fi panels / bricks etc). One note you should takeaway is that normals are arguably more robust than bump maps, which tend to become less effective at certain camera angles. It's all quite subjective really, but i'd say as a rule of thumb - bumps for finer detail, normals for larger details.

  • pfunkyfizepfunkyfize Posts: 491

    Thanks KA!

    I didn't know if there was an inherent advantage of the normal vs map because I saw it used RGB values to determine details but I see that most people use bump maps in their products more than normals. This is good to know. Thanks!

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    Bump maps are a lot easier to generate, which is one reason.

     

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,270
    timmins.william said:

    Bump maps are a lot easier to generate, which is one reason.

     

    Yep, this. When it comes to normal maps you're pretty much stuck with whatever you generated from a high poly bake or photoshop conversion. After the initial conversion, normals are very difficult to edit effectively, whereas with a bump map you have far more control. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    Of course, a lot of people get VERY lazy with their bump maps. Half of the older stuff, it's nothing more than the diffuse map turned B&W, with highlights and shadows baked in.

     

    Oy.

     

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,270
    timmins.william said:

    Of course, a lot of people get VERY lazy with their bump maps. Half of the older stuff, it's nothing more than the diffuse map turned B&W, with highlights and shadows baked in.

     

    Oy.

     

    Agreed, but it can be rather tricky if you don't have have something high poly to bake from. For instance, photo textures - If you pick up a seamless brick texture online, you're quite limited as to what you can do with it. It's a bit ambitious to try the same trick with skin though, that can't end well.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,298

    Photoshop has an NVIDIA plugin that does normal maps for anyone interested. It's quick and easy to use. There are a couple of videos on YouTube that shows how to work in it.

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,270
    frank0314 said:

    Photoshop has an NVIDIA plugin that does normal maps for anyone interested. It's quick and easy to use. There are a couple of videos on YouTube that shows how to work in it.

    Yes, Nvidia normal map filter. It's surprisingly customizable and actually has a 3d previewer as well which is handy.

  • pfunkyfizepfunkyfize Posts: 491

    Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I will look into the nvidia plugin for photoshop, that sounds interesting. I found this earlier and am experimenting with it:

    http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/

     

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,270
    pfunkyfize said:

    Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I will look into the nvidia plugin for photoshop, that sounds interesting. I found this earlier and am experimenting with it:

    http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/

     

    That looks good, there have actually been a fair few height/normal solutions on the market. I had crazybump for a while but i didn't get around to using it much - worked a treat though. 

  • DarkEdgeDesignDarkEdgeDesign Posts: 489

    Sometime it depends on the product too. Depending on what I'm modeling sometimes I use just Normal maps, sometimes just Bump maps...and sometimes I use them both with the Normal playing the primary role and the Bump just accentuating. smiley

  • pfunkyfizepfunkyfize Posts: 491
    DarkEdgeDesign said:

    Sometime it depends on the product too. Depending on what I'm modeling sometimes I use just Normal maps, sometimes just Bump maps...and sometimes I use them both with the Normal playing the primary role and the Bump just accentuating. smiley

    That's good to know that you can use both. I thought one just replaces the other.

    Is there one format better than the other when it comes to jpg or png?

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,586

    Jpeg is lossy whereas Png is lossless. That can be quite a lot of information lost in jpegs, particularly at higher compression levels - you don't have to spend a lot of time on the Internet before you'll come across images with quite horrendous jpeg compression artefacts. Png files do tend to be quite a bit bigger than jpeg, but they're still compressed and much smaller than the full bitmap. File size is getting to be much less of an issue as high bandwidth low cost broadband becomes more prevalent and large capacity storage devices become more common.

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