Modeling Objects in Carrara - Q&A - Come One and All

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited July 2017

    John - if you are making something for use in Carrara, then you can do it like I showed in the creating morphs video. But if you want to add morphs to Daz characters which are usable in DS (and Carrara where possible) then you need to follow the above procedure.

    Stezza - good reminder about correcting the rigging and ERC Freeze if you have changed the body proportions at all..

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    That's what I was hoping to not need.  Hmmm... much easier to just stay in Carrara on one hand... but I'd better follow the rules as explained by you and Diomede so that even it would be of use in DS.  Thanks.

    I'm thinking that if one is designing custom figures then they might also want to add more geometry to begin with in the area of the morph... might make a difference in the detail look of a morph target.  I'm likely wrong... only morphed my own objects to date so don't know what I"m talking about when it comes to more detailed models.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168
    edited July 2017

    Coming soon but need some file structure confirmation.

    I modeled a book with covers and pages that can be turned.  I rigged a version in Studio and saved as a DUF file.  However, I have never shared a DUF file and I am not sure which files need to be included.  I've never tried to create and share something in the data file structure instead of the runtime file structure.  If I just ZIP a folder that contains the content \ data and content \ Props folders, is that sufficient?  The book's DUF file is in a subfolder of the content \ Props folder.  Or, do I need to include my working files?  It loads and can be animated in Carrara.

    .

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    I've been reading about this... believe you have too.  Did you grab MDO's files here?  Earlier in that same thread take a peek at TangoAlpha's setup for both DS and Carrara content.

    I know you have textures... where are they located... be sure to grab that folder. Another way to find out what a .zip should contain would be to just look at a ShareCG file with a .duf or one purchased elsewhere.  Be sure that it is one that installs correctly of course.

    Wish I could say more but that's all I know... never zipped anything to auto install into a library.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Diomede,  Just thought of another way to find out.  Simply zip as you believe will work then send to anyone you trust to test so they can let you know what problems there are... if any.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    John's Crazy Objects:  An Unrealistic Tree... the start, maybe.

    I'm wanting to design a tree or 2... well at least one,  for this months Carrara Challenge.  My muse inspired song is "Out of the Woods" by Taylor Swift.  I figure that "in the woods" pretty well sums up my modeling.

    Just started tonight with a cylinder which I cranked up to 1 for smoothing and converted for more polys to play with.  For the roots, yea I know they look like legs now, I first selected clumps of 4 polys leaving a space of 4 empty, non-selected, clumps.  I'm hoping that these will look much better after I add some more polys for a bit more to work with on them when doing the shaping for each.  Note to self... make trunk taper and roots further out from trunk and fade into it higher up... sorta like real trees. :)

    After I extrude limbs later I can get rid of some of the polygon rings not needed... might need a few... thinking about having a rounded nub where branch has fallen off long ago.  I can also use Smoothing to keep polycount down an hopefully give this a better look.

    I'll wait until it's further along, looking better, before posting another render.

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    wgdjohn said:

    That's what I was hoping to not need.  Hmmm... much easier to just stay in Carrara on one hand... but I'd better follow the rules as explained by you and Diomede so that even it would be of use in DS.  Thanks.

    I'm thinking that if one is designing custom figures then they might also want to add more geometry to begin with in the area of the morph... might make a difference in the detail look of a morph target.  I'm likely wrong... only morphed my own objects to date so don't know what I"m talking about when it comes to more detailed models.

    You can't add geometry for a morph - a morph is just a distortion of the original mesh. If you add (or subtract) anything, you have a different mesh and the morph will not work. But I can totally see why you may want to have extra geometry. So you would have to take a different approach:

    - parenting extra bits (like horns) to the original mesh, maybe with a morph to make the join look better;

    - geograft if you are using DS - this technology was specifically developed for just this case;

    - have the extra bits conforming to the original mesh like clothing, but think beyond "clothing" and the same thing can be potentially applied to any "add-on".

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Hi  John :)

    for stuff like Horns,. or tails,. where the figure geometry may not be enough to create nice details,.

    the traditional; method was ,... make some horns,. (props) then simply "parent" those to the head,. by dragging and dropping into the figures hierarchy (instance list)

    this allows you to create much more detailed "parts" ,. rather than trying to work with a few polygons on the figures head.

    These "Parented Props" can have their own UV / shading domains / textures,.. and even morphs to change the shape. or bones to add rigging to a tail or extra limb. (those would be parented figures),.

    With figures like Genesis,. those now use a process called "Geo-grafting",. almost the same as a parented prop.

    Hope it helps :)

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168

    Can someone test this freebie?  It is in the Daz Studio file structure.  I hope that you can simply copy the "content" folder to your own content folder.  It should create a Diomede folder in your Studio props library.  The book will be there.  The file is large because of all of the textures needed for the covers, pages, etc.  The uvmaps for the covers are square.  Just load your own image for the cover and for the pages.  The uvmap template for the spine is included in the materials folder. 

    NOTE - the book rigging has an inconvenient flaw.  The base bone is anchored at zero, zero, zero.  Not sure why and I can fix in an update, but thought people might like the book figure anyway.

    https://www.sharecg.com/v/88785/view/5/3D-Model/book-turn-pages

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Just downloaded and it all seems to work fine for me - great work!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168

    Thanks, Phil.  Any insight on how to fix the "root" bone being set at zero, zero, zero?  Can I fix that with a morph in an update?

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Activate the Joint Editor Tool and move the root bone up to where you want it, choose one of the other tools (eg. rotate) to come out. Resave. Job done.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Installed and loaded fine.  Looking good.  Do the pages still lack constraints?... I tried rotating the entire 1pg1 and also 1pg2 and both pass through the cover which I'd opened extra wide... didn't mess with any other pages... you probably know what I mean... if not let me know and I'll upload a screenshot.  Hopefully it will be as easy as fixing with Joint Editor Tool which I've never messed with.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2017

    Another example of the Organic tool... this one by Wendy.  Check her other examples on YouTube at madcatlady.  Check out the vidoes... there is another of a cat which is a bit longer.  I also notice one of an Emu which looks to be done with Organic tool... me thinks.

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    John's Crazy Objects:  An Unrealistic Tree using Double Sweep.

    Just a quick test to see if Double Sweep will do what I want.  Looks promising but will need to pay attention next time.  I hadn't thought about it before hand but the top is just a smaller version of the bottom... so while it appears to taper the shape only gets smaller.  You might also notice in final swept pic that I have a problem with distortion in the final mesh.  Back to the drawing board it goes.

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    John's Crazy Objects:  An Unrealistic Tree - still experimenting - Ruled Surface... this time.

    This time I wanted a taper at the top to change to a roundish tree from my original template so I added a circle with the same number of vertices, 150 ... good grief that was too many to start with... got a bit carried away.  Note that it also twists... The circle has not been changed except for position to 0x0y... what I must have done is rotate the goofy looking template for the bottom. Also note that I added smoothing at 1 for the renders... before that vertical polylines showed in some places... looked a bit like a combo of normal and wireframe... could be due to number of polys or their closeness or angle to each other??

    While looking at the result it made me think of a dress design but that's a different project entirely.

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited July 2017

    As a general rule I tend to use as few vertices / polygons as possible - smoothing (or SubD in DS terminology) is a very powerful tool to add the extra geometry for a smooth object while keeping the actual object relatively light - and fewer polys mean that it is easier to edit. Once you have the overall form, you can selectively add geometry where you need it, or freeze a smoothed object although this is a less precise way of doing it.

    Another thing that is worth aiming for is to keep polys roughly square. Nothing wrong with being say twice as long as it is wide, but if you are looking at very stretched polys (as in your example) then it will be worth adding some loops to give more even geometry - this will help to avoid the render artifacts that you were seeing and it will smooth better.

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    I hope to get crackin on a much lower vertices count version.

    Once I get a lower poly/vertices count version I'll use Extract Along to place at center then Extract Around it if I want more geometry... this will not be too important for the lower part... now that I know that the top can be round I will create yet another , smaller, circle template for the higher up part of tree... this I'll need more poly rings to create branches, bends, bumps and more irregularities.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    wgdjohn said:

    Modeling Clothes Question:

    Does Add Thickness ever need to be used for clothing?  The videos I've seen don't use it.

    maybe unrelated but Fenric has a toward away shader that lets you map different sides of the same poly's with different shaders

     

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,202

    they usually only thicken hems

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    th3Digit said:

    they usually only thicken hems

    must get new glasses - thought that said 'hens'

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    wgdjohn said:

    John's Crazy Objects:  An Unrealistic Tree using Double Sweep.

    Just a quick test to see if Double Sweep will do what I want.  Looks promising but will need to pay attention next time.  I hadn't thought about it before hand but the top is just a smaller version of the bottom... so while it appears to taper the shape only gets smaller.  You might also notice in final swept pic that I have a problem with distortion in the final mesh.  Back to the drawing board it goes.

    nice to see your experments with these aspects of the vertex room

    have you tried animating a double sweep ? - assuming one  can ;)

     

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Not tried but there should be no problem as it becomes a mesh... just like Path Sweep.  AFAIK... anything created in the VM can be animated... if it's moveable it will animate.  You can't animate the actual path(s) as they are being swept tho... there are a few ways to make the final polymesh appear as if it is grown.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987

    yes I did a few animated  breaking waves when I first came to Carrara - using the Path Sweep - the verticies never wanted to behave though - they kept changing order (? from memory)

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Never tried waves period... for simple up/down waves I'd try to aproach with morphs and just alternate them... be fun trying a breaking wave.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    edited July 2017
    wgdjohn said:

    Never tried waves period... for simple up/down waves I'd try to aproach with morphs and just alternate them... be fun trying a breaking wave.

    oh I was doing pipeline :) Banzaai!

     

    Post edited by Headwax on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235

    Here is my attempt at "breaking waves" I did over a year ago or so. I created a series of morphs, about 9 in all if I remember, to get the wave to rise, crest and fall. Then I created 4 morph targets and loaded the series of morhps into each of those targets, which allowed for some variration of control as to when each section of the wave rose and fell. I'd have to go back and take a closer look as it's been a while since that experiment.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2017
    head wax said:
    wgdjohn said:

    Modeling Clothes Question:

    Does Add Thickness ever need to be used for clothing?  The videos I've seen don't use it.

    maybe unrelated but Fenric has a toward away shader that lets you map different sides of the same poly's with different shaders

    I see the effects of TowardAway shader but need to understand it a bit better... off to the docs...

    th3Digit said:

    they usually only thicken hems

    Thanks!

    DesertDude,  looks good!  9 morphs give it more realistic action of a breaking wave.

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited July 2017
    wgdjohn said:

    Never tried waves period... for simple up/down waves I'd try to aproach with morphs and just alternate them... be fun trying a breaking wave.

    Somewhere in the forum I posted a quick animation I did using the waves pattern in the displacement channel. That works pretty well for simple up/down wave and even for slightly more complex waves with interference. You could do something similar for gentle waves washing onto a beach, but the breaking, curling over and crashing type wouldn't work that way.

    I think you'd definitely have to model them with morphs. There's probably software out there that lets you sim it and then either composite it in in other software of trying exporting as series of OBJs and make morphs.

    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    do you think face rigging is possible with carrara tools?  

    thinking of starting with a tesselated plane?  dunno

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