More problems, but what else is new LOL...

Wonderland

OK, first of all I have now tried on 2 G3 dresses on G3 that have poke through in a conventional position and a weird thing happening on the pants for also a G3 item... Why is that and how can I fix it?

Secondly, some of my renders end prematurely, they are still grainy and not fully rendered but are at 100%. I tried rendering both for speed and memory to see if that made a difference, but it didn't. And BTW, what is the difference between memory and speed?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions...

There will be more....

This one is a partial screenshot of a render that ended prematurely and has a weird thing on the side of the pants...

G3 test render with poke through on G3 dress

Another G3 dress with poke through...

mjc1016

In the current beta, there is listed a fix for the render starting before the smoothing is finished applying...that is, in part, what may be happening with the pokethrough on the dresses. 

Did you do the pose then hit 'render' by any chance?  Or did you wait a few minutes (and smoothing can 'reset' by doing certain things...like moving a hand or other part of the model)?

Another area what can cause pokethrough like that...displacement maps.  Iray does much better with bump or normal maps, because of the type of displacement it uses.  To do displacement in Iray, in a useful manner, the item being displaced needs a higher level of subdivision.

As to the grainy/unfinished renders...yes, they are unfinished, because the default settings to 'end' the render are reached BEFORE it actually is finished.  A PBR renderer never really finishes, but it can have subjective 'done' points set.  The defaults, 2hrs for time, a certain number of samples and a certain convergence percentage will stop the render when the first one is reached.  So, for example, you hit 93% converged at 2 hrs, the render will end, no matter how grainy it still is.

Now, one thing that is not frequently mentioned...but is obvious in your example...emissive surfaces increase the time it takes to render.  With those emissives in that scene, you are probably hitting one of the stop conditions long before it is actually done.  The settings to control those stop conditions are in the Render Settings under Progressive Rendering.  The defaults are 5000 samples, 7200 seconds and 95%  converged...the time and converged percentage would be the first to play with.  If it's under 2 hrs when coming up 'done', raise the converged percentage to something like 98%. 

The other thing that would probably help...more light...not necessarily more lights...but raise the AMOUNT of light.  It also appears that you are using 'scene' lighting an no 'dome'.

Wonderland

Thanks. The two dress samples and weird thing on the pants were there well after I posed them, I didn't render them right away. The poke through is visible on the unrendered version too in the viewport. I knew there would be poke through in the render but I went ahead because I was testing other things as well, like light and shaders. I don't know how to do subdivision. These are all G3 products from Daz, on regular G3 in a standing position with legs close together, shouldn't they work right out of the box?

The other render was lit only with .hdr and emissive lights that I bumped up from the set, mostly because I couldn't get any lights to work. I tried adding my own lights and vendor lights but I couldn't see where they were placed, I'm assuming somewhere outside the walls of the set, because they didn't light the set at all, and I couldn't see where they were to move them, which is something else I need to learn how to do. Where are the lights? I tried moving them with all the axis controls but couldn't see where they were and the scene was somehow lit up in the viewport even though I had the headlamps off and the little light thing switched off so I couldn't see how any lights affected the scene until I hit render, just to find that no lights affected the scene and I couldn't see where they were placed. So I just rendered with bumped up emmissives, bumped up environment, HDR and scene and dome on. I tried sun which worked great on my outside renders hoping it would go through the windows, but that didn't work either. The 9:00 AM setting I used for outside looked great but didn't work here, then I tried 11:00 AM, didn't work, and I didn't feel like doing a guessing game of every possible time... I learned Photoshop and Poser a long time ago just by experimenting and trying stuff but that's not working too well with DS. I obviously need a lot of help!

So I can change the render time to like 200,000 seconds and let it go over night or will I run out of RAM? And what is the difference between rendering for memory or speed? I have it on memory thinking it will use available RAM better...

Thanks for all answers, I really am a newbie!!!!

barbult

Do the garments with poke through have smoothing turned on?

Wonderland

I tried rendering it with smoothing on and off and playing with the smoothing but nothing helped... Should smoothing be on? I'm assuming it should...

barbult

Wonderland said:

I tried rendering it with smoothing on and off and playing with the smoothing but nothing helped... Should smoothing be on? I'm assuming it should...

In general, smoothing should be on on clothing. It is your first line of defense to against poke through. The default value is usually smoothing iterations 2 and collision iterations 3. Be sure your character is set as the collision item in the dress's smoothing settings.

Wonderland

I'm not at my computer now (on iPad) so can't check, but I didn't change anything that the vendor originally had set up except experimenting with smoothing so I'm assuming they had that set up correctly... And now I've had problems with three different G3 outfits and I don't know if they were all by the same vendor, but I doubt it, so I don't know if the problem is somehow with that particular character or what. I realize now there was a lot of V7 in the morph but G3 clothes should fit V7... The pants were on a different character though and that had problems too, but not poke through, the strange thing on the side of her leg...

barbult

What are the outfits? I'll see if I have them.

Wonderland

Here is one: Manga-Anime Battlesuit for Genesis 2 Female(s) and Genesis 3 Female(s)

The things on the side of the pants look very different from how they rendered on mine... Although in Close-up they don't look as bad, but just different from the promo...

Also, here are the other two that shouldnt have poke through...: Little Black Dress for Genesis 3 Female(s), Timeless Outfit for Victoria 7

Both are DAZ originals with different artists.

Thanks

barbult

Those links point to YOUR product library, not the store, so I can't follow them, but based on the names, I don't think I have them. Sorry.

Wonderland

OK thanks...

Tottallou

I have the battlesuit & the dress mentioned - Here is the battlesuit on G3, I don't think mine looks like the promo image either

I will check out the dress next soon & post the result

 

Tottallou

I did not get the poke through on the dress but the parts where the hands touched the dress did get swallowed up - what I found helped was to go to the dress in paremeters and change the collission to 1 or even zero as it loads as 6

You might still need to work on the hands - anyway here is the render

Sorry but I do not have the other product you have problems with

Wonderland

Thanks Totoallou :) It seems that the design gets distorted when posed in a seated position, but looks OK standing. The other dress, (I think it is the timeless dress) had the worse poke though. At least if someone else sees the same result, I know I'm not doing something drastically wrong! Maybe they wllll do an update...?