Dynamic Cloth
tring01
Posts: 305
I spent some time researching this product and development on it seems to have been abandoned back in 2013. OptiTex still has a web presence but their store page is gone. It seems like it is one of those things in Daz that didn't make it but that they still keep around for those who invested in it. Is that the case?
Shame if so. The concept is brilliant.
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I don't know if that's an entirely accurate assessment, but its close enough.
We are in dire need of a new dynamic plugin, one that is more accessible to the average user.
There is something at Rendo to use with optitex, but we can't discuss it here.
I've started using Blender for some of it; seeing as Daz cba doing anything with it.
Funny thing is, I buy a lot less because of being forced to do it myself - so that is what I tend to do now.
Yeah. I'm just getting to the point where I find it easier to just create something quick out of primitives and stock shaders when I need a backdrop. So much easier than trying to kitbash some complex geometry product. My simple backdrops usually render dramatically faster too.
This is an issue that DAZ customers and specifically DS users raise from time to time, but it doesn't seem to result in much response.
I find it strange that animation is pushed from time to time, yet dynamic clothing is not solidly supported.
I understand that DAZ made a decision some time ago to go with Optitex and probably feel committed to supporting (or at least not abandoning) those that have bought dynamic clothes for DS which use the Optitex system.
However to me as an outsider (but regular DS user) the Optitex system seems to be a dead end road for the home and semi-professional 3d market; if you doubt this just look at how vibrant the dynamic clothes market is at the DAZ store.... or not, as the case may be.
There are other physics engines for simulating gravity and cloth properties. Just take a look at Marvelous Designer as an example of a fast simulator. Most (if not all) other important 3D software has a cloth simulator that can make dynamic objects from any object in .obj format, including Poser (which has had this facility for a long time).
I accept that DAZ has chosen the business model of keeping DS free and making it's money selling 3d assets and this may limit the amount they can spend on development of DS. However, even Blender which is completely free has a decent physics engine which can turn an object into cloth.
I for one would be prepared to pay a sensible sum for a physics engine addon for DS.
In any case I would certainly encourage DAZ to re-examine this issue seriously and let it's clientele know how they are going to address this issue.
I paid for Optitex, and would have welcomed Daz scrapping it in favour of a better system; there is at least one alternative on the horizon now, so too late for them in a way.
There are at least three third-party plugins that I know of in the works.
"I find it strange that animation is pushed from time to time"
where is animation pushed ?
I'm betaing one of them, and very impressed. I'll be buying the plugin when available.
Ruphuss... how about aniMate(1,2..), Mimic(1,2..), iClone( where are we up to at the moment....?). These are software adjuncts to DS sold to encourage us to animate. Then of course DS has its own animation capabilites (whatever you may think of them) and we see movement/action files being sold from time to time.
Conversly there are few dynamic clothing sets (compared to conforming), and some of the items sold as "dynamic" actually mean they are conforming but the vendor has created his/her own dynamic versions and made them into morphs, meaning the the clothing is not dynamic but morphable.
Does that answer your question?
As far as animation in Daz goes - well, there are a few aniblocks for sale for G3, but not many and the people at goFigure are no longer doing development on aniMate. They haven't been working on it for years now. It's a nice product - but it's on the down slope to obsolescence. The Mimic series is a Daz Originals product, but isn't getting much attention either. Daz didn't even produce the Mimic file to support G3 until I submitted a help ticket asking for it. iClone does not support G3. Even if you want to animate with G2 or earlier, it will set you back anywhere from $600 to $900 depending on sales and such. Definitely out of range for a hobbyist and professional animators don't use Daz.
That said, I feel that the basic Daz tools; GraphMate, KeyMate, Puppeteer, are all very solid. Only, if ONLY Daz had a physics engine! As someone said - the one in Blender is free and it is awesome! Hope Daz decides to really support animation some day. I don't think they have much interest in doing so currently.
"...and professional animators don't use Daz."
Whilst not wanting to be contradictory, the DAZ home page has this quote ... “...accurate character tolerances made Daz a go-to solution on CAPTAIN AMERICA, THOR, and IRON MAN.” - RON MENDELL
Personally I have no idea which professionals may or may not use DAZ, and perhaps we need to be careful to distinguish between DAZ3d and DS.
However I heartily agree with the sentiment that DS needs a decent and accessible physics engine.
So. There's a good bit of animation and dynamic clothing bits on sale atm. Are they worth investing in?
I believe the artist quoted there was using Daz to build story boards. Not animations.
My experience is limited, but my advice would be that if you're predominantly using V4 and M4 it might well be worth it. Unfortunately I've never gotten consistent results applying Genesis clothing to G2 or G3 figures (tried all the tricks to get it to work, some work and many simply do not work). I would not suggest buying V4 and M4 generation dynamic clothes and trying to apply them to current generation figures. Very unlikely you will get consistently acceptable results.
I've actually found m4v4 dynamic clothes work fine on later generations. You lose the ability to easily pose to start with, but I think it only makes things a little hard compared to the general challenge of using Dynamic outfits.
The clothes work well, and the plugin is worth it, expecially coupled with the script from the other site.
Hmmm, if that is the case then that is a whole different kettle of fish. A story board hardly has to be accurate, just informative. A hand drawn sketch will do. Some thing smells fishy here :)
Here is the narrative on what he used Daz for. http://www.daz3d.com/explore-ron-mendell
Thanks for the link. It seems DS and associated assets were used for concept design. This brings the quote into more focus and makes sense in my mind. I did wonder what role DS was playing in the whole process, now I know.
Do you still have that Mimic file? If not can we download it from somewhere?
Last item on the page: https://www.daz3d.com/downloader/customer/files#prod_21630
<nod> If you have the patience to tweak and tweak and tweak, you can make most of the original batch of dynamics fit almost any figure. Here's something I worked up a few years ago, using critter figures based on Aiko3. It helps a lot if you bought the full dynamics plugin, and it can take a while (and several repeated drapes) to get the cloth to behave.
All these plus other amazing dynamic/ physics scripts I've only just discovered...
And also recent official efforts highlighting DS's animation capabilities on youtube...
Is why I'm reconsidering DS in my animation toolset (and renewed my Platinum membership!)
I ended up in that link last week and then scratched my head - "Isn't that bundle installed already in my library?"
Indeed it was! So after some digging... Found G2 G3 mimic files under folder named General!
Oh the mystery! Solved!
Now I have a legit G3 dmc file for my Mimic Lite and newly purchased Mimic Live! Oh and DS 32bit Lip Sync too.
Will probably work with my Carrara Mimic Pro if I bother to port G3 to Carrara...