animate2 bug? just need to save my animation :(

3dsamm

Hey guys,

Is it possible to create an animation file of an animated genesis and then bring in this file to another scene so I can use it on all the genesis in that scene? I need to have each genesis animating one after the other in the timeline.

Thanks!

3dsamm

..otherwise the other way I am trying is in this thread:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/713/

This is my process: Created two pose presets (just the upper body as Im only moving the arm). Added an empty aniblock... THEN when I start recording the animation in puppeteer the genesis arches his back!!!!

Is it because I am saving the pose preset with just the upper body ticked? Im doing this as I dont want his current position saved.

:-/

carolinebegbie

I don't know if it will help, but this is a quick demo of how I would save an aniBlock, and then reuse it (sorry about grotty animation, and first 30 seconds abusing the ActivePose tool :) ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnXP7xhNOAw

You might want to watch the HD version full screen.

One of the problems with using Puppeteer is that Puppeteer records the root position of the figure. If you are reusing aniBlocks, you don't want the root position recorded. In fact when you create the aniBlock, all root positions are discarded, which may account for the odd results you are seeing.

Say you are doing a crouch, as in the above video, you might want 3 Genesises in 3 different positions doing the same crouch. So the root position is recorded outside of the aniBlock. The aniBlock does not hold the root position, because you wouldn't be able to apply the same block to 3 different Genesises.

This is an older video of a stair animation using Puppeteer, and creating an aniBlock, which could be reused by other characters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXkTTniE1E

3dsamm

..thank you so much carnite.. Im just popping out but will check this in an hour :)

Jaderail

Darn!! Carnite where were you before I gave up animating? That is some of the clearest and easiest examples I have ever seen.

carolinebegbie

Lol @ Jade - time for your second attempt perhaps? A moving picture paints a gazillion words :).

@3dsamm - let us know if it makes any more sense. The aniMate2 manuals are here: http://www.gofigure3d.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=56 - if you haven't purchased aniMate2, then you should be looking at the aniMate Lite User Guide. (DS 4 comes with a 30 day trial of the full aniMate2, so you may be in that time period.)

3dsamm

Thanks very much carnite - helps a lot and its very clear thankyou. I have also brought in my two poses and see their keyframes show up in animate2 and it animates.

I have a couple of questions:

1. how do you add a keyframe without moving the character?

2. when i move my pose presets onto the genesis, is it necessary to add it onto a particular body part? for example my pose preset is literally hand on the table and then hand on the face. if i drag this onto his thigh, i see in the studio keys layer for Right Thigh add a keyframe. is it best to select the genesis, not a body part, and then double click the pose preset?

3. how can i see all layers of the studio keys, eg for each body part. i just added a new genesis and moved him and its recorded this movment, i removed the keyframe at that position (wasnt at 0) but i must have also recorded it at another keyframe as hes moving, but i cannot see which layer without clicking on each body part.

Regarding pose presets:

I saved the two poses as a full pose with all body parts ticked and also as just the right shoulder that is being moved. if i drag the second one, just the shoulder movement, onto a new genesis, he moves to a new position in the scene. any idea why?

also, what steps would you take when saving a pose preset to just export the shoulder only, for example? or should i instead be using the Poser Format Exporter, as you previously mentioned, for exporting a pose (this seems more advanced).

Im in Australia, so off to bed now. Thanks a lot for your help carnite and Jaderail!!

3dsamm

Sorry about the thread double up, I was recommended this Animation thread.. Ill inform the moderator next time to move :O)

Im watching the gofigure3d tutorials on animate2 to get some answers :P

carolinebegbie

3dsamm said:

1. how do you add a keyframe without moving the character?

That depends on how you are animating.

If you are using Studio Keys, which I tend to do, and then create an aniBlock later, then you can go to the Timeline Tab and use the Create Keyframe button. (Timeline and Studio Keys both act on the same DAZ Studio Keyframe.) You can shift or ctrl click multiple parts in the scene tab to key multiples.

If you are animating inside an aniBlock, this is not creating DAZ Studio keyframes. There is a +key icon to add keyframes for parts.

2. when i move my pose presets onto the genesis, is it necessary to add it onto a particular body part? for example my pose preset is literally hand on the table and then hand on the face. if i drag this onto his thigh, i see in the studio keys layer for Right Thigh add a keyframe. is it best to select the genesis, not a body part, and then double click the pose preset?

I've forgotten what you mean by a "pose preset" - is this saving the pose by File Menu > Save As > DSF Pose File? If so, did you untick the joints you did not want recorded?

3. how can i see all layers of the studio keys, eg for each body part. i just added a new genesis and moved him and its recorded this movment, i removed the keyframe at that position (wasnt at 0) but i must have also recorded it at another keyframe as hes moving, but i cannot see which layer without clicking on each body part.

You can't really, except in the Graph Editor option of an aniBlock. You can see that in the aniMate2 manual.

In DS3, there's a free plugin called Geppetto, but of course it won't work with Genesis, which is only DS4.

We're hoping DS5 will bring better animation changes.

Regarding pose presets:

I saved the two poses as a full pose with all body parts ticked and also as just the right shoulder that is being moved. if i drag the second one, just the shoulder movement, onto a new genesis, he moves to a new position in the scene. any idea why?

Probably because all parts are keyed as well as the root of the figure. The root is why he is moving to a new position in the scene. Only joints "hip" downwards should be keyed in poses.

also, what steps would you take when saving a pose preset to just export the shoulder only, for example? or should i instead be using the Poser Format Exporter, as you previously mentioned, for exporting a pose (this seems more advanced).

I think I might have misled you with the PFE. I don't know DS4 very well, and there is this saving as a DSF Pose thingy, where you can untick all the parts you don't want keyed.

Im in Australia, so off to bed now. Thanks a lot for your help carnite and Jaderail!!

Gold Coast-ite here :).

Jaderail

I have a request. If I might bother you carnite. If you could write a quick and dirty DS4pro timeline to AniBloke PDF with pictures that had all the steps, I would owe you big time. I got into 3D to do Animation, I now think my skills have progressed well enough in still renders that I'm ready to at least try taking it to the next level.

carolinebegbie

It won't be forthcoming immediately, I'm afraid; but I will mull it over for when I have a bit of free time.

I assume you mean more than "1. Pose", "2. Move playhead and pose", "3. Right click at top of aniMate2 tab and choose Create aniBlock from Studio Keys"?

Because that's basically it :).

The trouble is that there are a number of "gotchas" with aniBlocks, because they're primarily for pre-made mocap animation. So if you're doing your own animation, then there are a number of frustrations, that I probably would not be able to cover in a quick and dirty pdf.

[Another difficulty is that I don't particularly enjoy DS4, as I can't find my content, Genesis is slow, I don't like the colours and GUI in general compared to DS3, and Geppetto and other useful plugins don't exist in DS4.]

3dsamm

Thank you carnite for your comments. I have watched all the tutorials in gofigure3d and lot more familiar with its functions, although not enough for what I am trying to do here.

Oh gawd.. now we have multi quotes.. hehe :cheese: well at least this might help some other poor soul along the way :coolsmile:

2. when i move my pose presets onto the genesis, is it necessary to add it onto a particular body part? for example my pose preset is literally hand on the table and then hand on the face. if i drag this onto his thigh, i see in the studio keys layer for Right Thigh add a keyframe. is it best to select the genesis, not a body part, and then double click the pose preset?

I’ve forgotten what you mean by a “pose preset” - is this saving the pose by File Menu > Save As > DSF Pose File? If so, did you untick the joints you did not want recorded?

I have been saving my pose presets by clicking the save a pose preset button at the top above the scene, and then in the pop up window deselecting his hip as Im only animating his shoulder down. I will try saving it as a DSF Pose file. The problem I was having yesterday was when I dragged each pose onto the genesis, depending on where I dragged it - say his thigh for example, this created a keyframe on his Right Thigh layer in animate2. I'm guessing its best to have the genesis selected using double click and then double clicking the pose preset to add it.

3. how can i see all layers of the studio keys, eg for each body part. i just added a new genesis and moved him and its recorded this movment, i removed the keyframe at that position (wasnt at 0) but i must have also recorded it at another keyframe as hes moving, but i cannot see which layer without clicking on each body part.

You can’t really, except in the Graph Editor option of an aniBlock. You can see that in the aniMate2 manual.

In DS3, there’s a free plugin called Geppetto, but of course it won’t work with Genesis, which is only DS4.

We’re hoping DS5 will bring better animation changes.

Cool. Ill check out the graph editor, its a shame you cannot see all layers, this is quite limiting. I dont think we should wait for DS5 for Geppetto, we should have it for DS4, we should live for now ;-)

Regarding pose presets:

I saved the two poses as a full pose with all body parts ticked and also as just the right shoulder that is being moved. if i drag the second one, just the shoulder movement, onto a new genesis, he moves to a new position in the scene. any idea why?

Probably because all parts are keyed as well as the root of the figure. The root is why he is moving to a new position in the scene. Only joints “hip” downwards should be keyed in poses.

Not sure how I deselect the root? As mentioned I have deselected the hip for just this animation that moves the right arm only.

Gold Coast-ite here smile.

..another Brit in Australia I see! we sure are spoilt this winter in sydney :coolsmile:

3dsamm

carnite said:

I assume you mean more than "1. Pose", "2. Move playhead and pose", "3. Right click at top of aniMate2 tab and choose Create aniBlock from Studio Keys"?

Because that's basically it :).

Lol it is really isnt it? I was doing it the wrong way round, creating an aniblock first.

Im tempted to check out DS3..

Jaderail, the fact that you actually want to animate means that you are more than ready to step up, go for it! :-)

carolinebegbie

3dsamm said:

I have been saving my pose presets by clicking the save a pose preset button at the top above the scene, and then in the pop up window deselecting his hip as Im only animating his shoulder down. I will try saving it as a DSF Pose file. The problem I was having yesterday was when I dragged each pose onto the genesis, depending on where I dragged it - say his thigh for example, this created a keyframe on his Right Thigh layer in animate2. I'm guessing its best to have the genesis selected using double click and then double clicking the pose preset to add it.

Sorry, I don't tend to use pose presets when animating. That's a .dsb script file that you're using then. With those, if I haven't organized myself to have them in the Content folder, I just get a small Finder window (that's Mac for Explorer) on top of DS, and drag the dsb directly from the folder onto the figure. I just did it for a right collar downwards and I didn't get chest or thigh keyframes.

Cool. Ill check out the graph editor, its a shame you cannot see all layers, this is quite limiting. I dont think we should wait for DS5 for Geppetto, we should have it for DS4, we should live for now ;-)

Geppetto was written by a great forum member called Artemia Salina. He thinks that DS4 is constructed differently, so the Geppetto concepts won't translate to DS4. But the DS4 SDK (developer script) has not been released yet, so we're not 100% sure yet.

Not sure how I deselect the root? As mentioned I have deselected the hip for just this animation that moves the right arm only.

Not sure either. You can select the base ("Genesis") in the Scene tab and delete the keyframe.

..another Brit in Australia I see! we sure are spoilt this winter in sydney :coolsmile:

Always spoilt here - "Beautiful one day, perfect the next" :).

carolinebegbie

3dsamm said:

Lol it is really isnt it? I was doing it the wrong way round, creating an aniblock first.

Oh, I do that too - it just depends on which way the wind's blowing. The graph editor inside the aniBlock is very good. It's just that with Geppetto, and if I'm using Puppeteer, then it's easier to do it outside the aniBlock. But Puppeteer unfortunately creates keys on all joints, so I only do that for fairly simple animations, or if I'm in a hurry.

Im tempted to check out DS3..

Except that Genesis is a really good concept, with smoothing etc, and being able to use multiple wardrobes.

Jaderail, the fact that you actually want to animate means that you are more than ready to step up, go for it! :-)

Animating is really frustrating :). All over the internet you will find "Animation is Hard". In my happier freer times, I would spend hours and hours making just a few seconds of animation, then sit back, play it a few times and move on :). I haven't had much time for animating lately, and you do get rusty if you don't animate regularly. Like anything, I suppose.

Jaderail

If this would help any I'm a DS3A nut, not much I dont know except my own GOOD lighting. I own AniMate Plus and have it in DS3A, I'll look into getting AniMate 2 sometime soon.

P.S. I was doing hand animation on a C+64 WAY back when. That was a totaly different thing than 3D.

Super Newb

Hi Guys (and Caroline).
-I'm ALWAYS lurking in animation threads-
As limited as some think it may be, I have found DS3A capable enough for me with animation. Between the Timeline, Geppetto, Puppetteer, and Animate2 (in that order) I seem to be able to get done what ever I want.

Carnite, you mentioned a couple posts back that one of the reasons you still like DS3 was that Genesis (or DS4) was slow. I have that problem sometimes too - but at other times it seems to fire along faster than DS3 did. Does anyone know why? Genesis is supposed to be a third of the poly's as V4, yet sometimes editing on the timeline really drags - but as I said, other times it's quite snappy. If I knew what was causing that, I might be able to work the fix in to my DS4 workflow. I'm suspecting it has something to do with the way DS4 deals with morphs, as the program always seems more responsive after the scene has been saved and reloaded. But as we all know, saving and reloading a scene is not a real quick process either, so that's not much help. Because of this (and the autofit/smoothing calculating issues in animation) I still use DS3 70-80% of the time. But like a poser user, I feel like I am being jipped out of the use of Genesis. I am impatiently awaiting the release of DS5, where I had heard we should see some improvements to animation features.

Aneet Productions

I have some of the same issues with DS4 being fine one time and then becoming very slow.

Super Newb said:

Hi Guys (and Caroline).
-I'm ALWAYS lurking in animation threads-
As limited as some think it may be, I have found DS3A capable enough for me with animation. Between the Timeline, Geppetto, Puppetteer, and Animate2 (in that order) I seem to be able to get done what ever I want.

Carnite, you mentioned a couple posts back that one of the reasons you still like DS3 was that Genesis (or DS4) was slow. I have that problem sometimes too - but at other times it seems to fire along faster than DS3 did. Does anyone know why? Genesis is supposed to be a third of the poly's as V4, yet sometimes editing on the timeline really drags - but as I said, other times it's quite snappy. If I knew what was causing that, I might be able to work the fix in to my DS4 workflow. I'm suspecting it has something to do with the way DS4 deals with morphs, as the program always seems more responsive after the scene has been saved and reloaded. But as we all know, saving and reloading a scene is not a real quick process either, so that's not much help. Because of this (and the autofit/smoothing calculating issues in animation) I still use DS3 70-80% of the time. But like a poser user, I feel like I am being jipped out of the use of Genesis. I am impatiently awaiting the release of DS5, where I had heard we should see some improvements to animation features.

3dsamm

Thanks for your help carnite, I am now animating using animate2 keyframes and saving pose presets as a DSF Pose File. Its so easy. I havent experimented with the graph editor in aniblock yet, I thought it would be best to convert the animation to an aniblock after I have put together the main keys? Although not sure now why you would need an aniblock.

I was wondering how you copy all the keys for the genesis on say keyframe 15 to keyframe 10. Shift/CTRL/Alt drag doesnt work and Im here copy/pasting each body part that has keyframes, which is not only time consuming but I cant find all the keys and he is moving between frame 10 and 15..

Always spoilt here - “Beautiful one day, perfect the next” smile.

..for sure, I bless every day :coolsmile:

3dsamm

okay, another question.. i am animating my character to pick something up from the table, and i have decided to scale the model down, at frame 15, so i go back to frame 0 to adjust its scale there.. but cannot see how to remove the frame at 15 and now the model starts at the correct size at 0 then at 1 jumps back to normal and over the frames tweens to the 15 keyframe scale. how do i have control over the models properties such as scale, opacity etc?

creativemodelsbe

can you explain me,

why the IK is not working in studio?
why i can not use pinning and hold foot to floor?

if i do this in iclone 5 the foot do not move from the floor with IK on and i can pose the characters very nice.

3dsamm

creativemodelsbe said:

can you explain me,

why the IK is not working in studio?
why i can not use pinning and hold foot to floor?

if i do this in iclone 5 the foot do not move from the floor with IK on and i can pose the characters very nice.

i have tried to pin the foot to the floor, following a daz tutorial and i find it doesnt work very well for me either.. :smirk:

creativemodelsbe

carnite said:

Animating is really frustrating :). All over the internet you will find "Animation is Hard". In my happier freer times, I would spend hours and hours making just a few seconds of animation, then sit back, play it a few times and move on :). I haven't had much time for animating lately, and you do get rusty if you don't animate regularly. Like anything, I suppose.

Animating is really frustrating in poser and dazstudio yes. (not in iclone)
IK features & better handling of keyframes on timeline or graphic/ visual curves to handle keyframes
things are missing still missing, i read this on the old forum.
we need more user friendly tools to do some serious animation.
i tought daz was working on this for studio 5, not?

3dsamm

Im starting to enjoy posing and animating, I find navigating around the space and the character and his hands quite easy. Im using the studio keys to add keyframes, how do I add extra keyframes for example if his hand moves from keyframe 0 to 10 how do I add empty keyframes so everything moves along 5 frames, so the original keyframe at 10 is now 15 (if that makes sense).

Cheers!

3dsamm

Animating is really frustrating in poser and dazstudio yes. (not in iclone)
IK features & better handling of keyframes on timeline or graphic/ visual curves to handle keyframes
things are missing still missing, i read this on the old forum.
we need more user friendly tools to do some serious animation.
i tought daz was working on this for studio 5, not?

Ive just googled iclone, in your experience of using DS and iclone to animate, would you recommend exporting the 3ddaz character and animate and pose in iclone then? What features do you recommend for DS?

Super Newb

3dsamm said:

Thanks for your help carnite, I am now animating using animate2 keyframes and saving pose presets as a DSF Pose File. Its so easy. I havent experimented with the graph editor in aniblock yet, I thought it would be best to convert the animation to an aniblock after I have put together the main keys? Although not sure now why you would need an aniblock.
The only reason I have ever found a need for an aniblock was to use animation movement I had already worked out (in the timeline) on another character, or at another time in an animation. Aniblocks are also handy if you want to change the timing of a particular animation. I do my work in the timeline, and if I have the need for either of the above, I transfer the animation I need to an aniblock, save it, and then incorporate it into the new section of animation (hope that makes sense to you). It's kind of like an awkward cut and paste using animate. A similar thing can be done in Geppetto with less effort (for DS3 only).

I was wondering how you copy all the keys for the genesis on say keyframe 15 to keyframe 10. Shift/CTRL/Alt drag doesnt work and Im here copy/pasting each body part that has keyframes, which is not only time consuming but I cant find all the keys and he is moving between frame 10 and 15.

That one is easier. Put your scrubber on frame 15, open puppeteer and create a dot for the character pose at that point, Move to frame 10, and transfer the pose to the timeline. I'm not at a computer to test this out, so I hope I have the procedure right for you. This too, can be done in Geppetto (DS3 only).

Super Newb

3dsamm said:

okay, another question.. i am animating my character to pick something up from the table, and i have decided to scale the model down, at frame 15, so i go back to frame 0 to adjust its scale there.. but cannot see how to remove the frame at 15 and now the model starts at the correct size at 0 then at 1 jumps back to normal and over the frames tweens to the 15 keyframe scale. how do i have control over the models properties such as scale, opacity etc?

Again, I am not at a computer with Studio to verify, but it sounds like you have the scale keyed on more frames than just 1 and 15 - the scale could also be keyed on a different node than the one you are looking at. Try correcting it on frame 1 and 7.

3dsamm

Super Newb said:

3dsamm said:

Thanks for your help carnite, I am now animating using animate2 keyframes and saving pose presets as a DSF Pose File. Its so easy. I havent experimented with the graph editor in aniblock yet, I thought it would be best to convert the animation to an aniblock after I have put together the main keys? Although not sure now why you would need an aniblock.
The only reason I have ever found a need for an aniblock was to use animation movement I had already worked out (in the timeline) on another character, or at another time in an animation. Aniblocks are also handy if you want to change the timing of a particular animation. I do my work in the timeline, and if I have the need for either of the above, I transfer the animation I need to an aniblock, save it, and then incorporate it into the new section of animation (hope that makes sense to toy). It's kind of like an awkward cut and paste using animate. A similar thing can be done in Geppetto with less effort (for DS3 only).

cool thanks a lot

Super Newb said:

I was wondering how you copy all the keys for the genesis on say keyframe 15 to keyframe 10. Shift/CTRL/Alt drag doesnt work and Im here copy/pasting each body part that has keyframes, which is not only time consuming but I cant find all the keys and he is moving between frame 10 and 15.

That one is easier. Put your scrubber on frame 15, open puppeteer and create a dot for the character pose at that point, Move to frame 10, and transfer the pose to the timeline. I'm not at a computer to test this out, so I hope I have the procedure right for you. This too, can be done in Geppetto (DS3 only).

im trying not to use puppeteer as it keyframes all body parts..?
very annoying i cannot use geppetto in DS4.. im sure there is someone out there that would just love to convert it :cheese:

3dsamm - 30 May 2012 03:04 AM

okay, another question.. i am animating my character to pick something up from the table, and i have decided to scale the model down, at frame 15, so i go back to frame 0 to adjust its scale there.. but cannot see how to remove the frame at 15 and now the model starts at the correct size at 0 then at 1 jumps back to normal and over the frames tweens to the 15 keyframe scale. how do i have control over the models properties such as scale, opacity etc?

Again, I am not at a computer with Studio to verify, but it sounds like you have the scale keyed on more frames than just 1 and 15 - the scale could also be keyed on a different node than the one you are looking at. Try correcting it on frame 1 and 7.

hmm no i just have two keyframes, one at 0 and one at 15. when you say different node do you mean, regarding a character, each body part is a node? i am using a cup object and it has only one 'node' so i cannot miss any sneaky keyframes.

i have just been using another prop, coins this time, and rotated a coin at keyframe 20 and now i agaain have the same problem, where it is rotating slowly from 0 to 20, even though both keys 0 and 19 are the same.. i copied the frame at 0 to 18 and this has fixed the problem... craziness.. perhaps because the key i created at 19 was with 'set studio key' rather than copy/pasting. odd.

New problem:

I am trying to parent the cup to the hand and at frame 20 where I want the parent to begin, the cup moves beneath the table.. whats happening? I have tested this again with the coin and the 'Active' slider will not drag across the slider. I am using right hand as the source and the target as as the cup/coin as per the tutorial. it worked earlier when i did a test :long:

3dsamm

New problem:

I am trying to parent the cup to the hand and at frame 20 where I want the parent to begin, the cup moves beneath the table.. whats happening? I have tested this again with the coin and the ‘Active’ slider will not drag across the slider. I am using right hand as the source and the target as as the cup/coin as per the tutorial. it worked earlier when i did a test long face

yeehah got that to work! i restarted daz, not sure if that was it, but when I dragged the cursor along the Active slider it sort of popped across from 0 to 100%. sweet. %-P

3dsamm

ug.. now later down the timeline I need to rotate and move it so it fits in the hand better but the move/rotate controls dont seem to work in parent mode? ive gotten around this type of thing in the past by creating another object with 0 opacity at keyframe 0, then when i need to use it at this point on the time line i switch the opacity to 100 and change the parented object to 0.

i cant work out how to animate the opacity on this object. or use the move/rotate tools..

:-/

Super Newb

3dsamm said:

ug.. now later down the timeline I need to rotate and move it so it fits in the hand better but the move/rotate controls dont seem to work in parent mode?

Not sure why the "move/rotate" tools wouldn't be working. Which tool are you using? I just tried with parameters, the node selection tool, and the Univeral manipulation tool, and they all work even when the item is parented.

ive gotten around this type of thing in the past by creating another object with 0 opacity at keyframe 0, then when i need to use it at this point on the time line i switch the opacity to 100 and change the parented object to 0.

i cant work out how to animate the opacity on this object. or use the move/rotate tools..

Your not going to want to hear this, but you can't animate the surfaces in DS4 (such as opacity) ... *protects head with hands* You can do it with Geppetto in DS3... :)

I guess your probably getting the idea by now why some of us are waiting for DS5 or staying in DS3 for animation......

One other trick you can use though, instead of opacity - Is to create your "other" object as you said, but do it "off screen" (where it can't be seen in the animation. When you need it, instead of changing the opacity, just pop it in to place with keyframes. The trick here is that because Studio tweens every thing between keyframes, it will try to slowly move your object from the off screen location to where you want it. So, say you want it to appear instantly at frame 15: at frame 12,13 and 14 keyframe the object in the "off screen" location. At frames 15,16 and 17, keyframe it in the new position on screen. By doing repetitive keyframes like that, it will force Studio to move the object in one frame (rather than smoothing out the movement) and to the naked eye, it will "appear" magically. ;-)