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Strange knees / elbows deformation after posing - Resolved

awdzawdz Posts: 19
edited February 16 in New Users

I've seen this with a number of figures after I pose them.  I'm hoping there's some simple step, setting, or other technique that I'm missing.  It's like the "flesh" is deforming around collision planes that aren't visible and don't follow the shape.  I'm not even really sure what to put into the forum search to find a solution, but the searching I have tried hasn't lead to results.  Even a good idea of what search terms would point me in the right direction would be helpful.  Thank you!

morph deformation at pose.png
747 x 589 - 412K
Post edited by awdz on

Comments

  • felisfelis Posts: 4,663

    It looks like the figure has rigging that is not adjusted to shape.

    Which character is it - is it a custom character?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,669

    I am having trouble sorting out what the image shows, but it could well be a corrective morph kicking in when it isn't needed - in a way the opposite of not adjusting rigging to shape.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 371
    edited February 16

    Do you get this issue on existing characters / morphs, or only on characters using morphs that you created yourself? If it is on characters using morphs that you created, did you adjust rigging to shape before posing?

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • awdzawdz Posts: 19
    edited February 16

    Sorry, I should have included more information from the start!  

    The character is an unmodified (as in, no morphs) MB Patzi HD for Genesis 9 Feminine | Daz 3D

    I loaded the character, changed a few materials (I may have added the navel shaping and ears from the product too), then the hair, then the clothing, then I saved it as a scene, merged it into my new scene (a scene I'd been setting up without figures), then moved it into place, then applied the pose.  The result on her legs is what you saw there.

    Edit:  Oh, and I have seen this issue on other figures too; I don't yet create my own figures; these are all figures that I've gotten from the Daz store.  It definitely isn't every figure.

    Post edited by awdz on
  • awdzawdz Posts: 19

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I am having trouble sorting out what the image shows, but it could well be a corrective morph kicking in when it isn't needed - in a way the opposite of not adjusting rigging to shape.

    What appears to be happening from a "form" point of view is that, as the knees bend, it almost looks like the calves are pressing up on the underside of the thighs, but not touching them; it's as if their "boundary" is several inches beyond where it would appear to be based on the figure's "flesh."

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,669

    awdz said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I am having trouble sorting out what the image shows, but it could well be a corrective morph kicking in when it isn't needed - in a way the opposite of not adjusting rigging to shape.

    What appears to be happening from a "form" point of view is that, as the knees bend, it almost looks like the calves are pressing up on the underside of the thighs, but not touching them; it's as if their "boundary" is several inches beyond where it would appear to be based on the figure's "flesh."

    Which is why I think it looks like a corrective morph - it should go with another shape, which probably does thicken the shins, and is trying to compenmsate for that when the knee bends. Does it show on a pure, vanilla figure with just the knee bent?

  • awdzawdz Posts: 19

    I tried the same on the base Genesis 9 figure loaded in (nothing else done in Daz), and I see a similar issue.  I could have sworn this is something I've only seen in some figures and not others, but maybe I'm mistaken and I just didn't realize because I've not often tried to do these more "full" bends.  I see this happen even when I don't apply a pose; if I simply load G9 and put a bend in the knee that goes beyond 100 degrees or so, I start to see the deformation.

  • awdzawdz Posts: 19

    Richard Haseltine said:

    awdz said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I am having trouble sorting out what the image shows, but it could well be a corrective morph kicking in when it isn't needed - in a way the opposite of not adjusting rigging to shape.

    What appears to be happening from a "form" point of view is that, as the knees bend, it almost looks like the calves are pressing up on the underside of the thighs, but not touching them; it's as if their "boundary" is several inches beyond where it would appear to be based on the figure's "flesh."

    Which is why I think it looks like a corrective morph - it should go with another shape, which probably does thicken the shins, and is trying to compenmsate for that when the knee bends. Does it show on a pure, vanilla figure with just the knee bent?

    Yes, it does.

  • awdzawdz Posts: 19

    Ah, that was the hint I needed, thank you Richard!  I checked my Current Used morphs (with Show Hidden enabled), and it looks like two were applied (not sure how; I certainly never intentionally added them):  EM3DAlina_body_cbs_shin_x155p_i and CCrowlsanaStrangeBody_cbs_shin_x155p_i.  I zeroed those and got behavior much, much more like I was expecting.  Thank you very much!

    Curious:  is there something I should do / avoid doing to not inadvertantly apply odd seemingly unrelated morphs?  Migtht those get applied by the pose, and that's why they cause an issue?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,669

    Thoswe look like product bugs - probably the link between the bend and the morph should be multiplied by the value of the shapes themselves and isn't. If they are from here report them to support, if from another store report to the artist or store (depending on how they handle it). If you want you can apply a fix (assuming I am right) - right-click on the Parameters pane and enable Edit Mode (if it isn't already), right-click on the problem slider and seelct Show in Property Hierarchy, then expand to show its attributes>Controllers>and you want to see "nd stage (1st stage should already have the knee bend), then find the body slider (for the first, something like EM3DAlinaBody) in Parameters and drag it across into Controlers>2nd Stage for the corrective morph.

  • awdzawdz Posts: 19
    edited February 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Thoswe look like product bugs - probably the link between the bend and the morph should be multiplied by the value of the shapes themselves and isn't. If they are from here report them to support, if from another store report to the artist or store (depending on how they handle it). If you want you can apply a fix (assuming I am right) - right-click on the Parameters pane and enable Edit Mode (if it isn't already), right-click on the problem slider and seelct Show in Property Hierarchy, then expand to show its attributes>Controllers>and you want to see "nd stage (1st stage should already have the knee bend), then find the body slider (for the first, something like EM3DAlinaBody) in Parameters and drag it across into Controlers>2nd Stage for the corrective morph.

    The editing you suggested worked, thank you!  However, it doesn't appear to last; if I restart Daz Studio, the issue is back (and now instead of ~86% applied, those two modifiers are at 100%).  I'll report to the Daz tech support.

    Edit: not when I restart Daz; any time I load in a new figure.  Still, that will hopefully fix it for that figure.  I can work around that for now.

    Post edited by awdz on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 8,024

    awdz said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Thoswe look like product bugs - probably the link between the bend and the morph should be multiplied by the value of the shapes themselves and isn't. If they are from here report them to support, if from another store report to the artist or store (depending on how they handle it). If you want you can apply a fix (assuming I am right) - right-click on the Parameters pane and enable Edit Mode (if it isn't already), right-click on the problem slider and seelct Show in Property Hierarchy, then expand to show its attributes>Controllers>and you want to see "nd stage (1st stage should already have the knee bend), then find the body slider (for the first, something like EM3DAlinaBody) in Parameters and drag it across into Controlers>2nd Stage for the corrective morph.

    The editing you suggested worked, thank you!  However, it doesn't appear to last; if I restart Daz Studio, the issue is back (and now instead of ~86% applied, those two modifiers are at 100%).  I'll report to the Daz tech support.

    Edit: not when I restart Daz; any time I load in a new figure.  Still, that will hopefully fix it for that figure.  I can work around that for now.

    After setting the correct Controllers at 2nd Stage of the corrective morphs, you need to Save Modified Assets, via: File > Save As > Support Asset > Save Modified Assets... Choose the morphs that you corrected, Accept.

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