Toon Themes by default?
vonHobo
Posts: 1,692
Why am I forced to buy toon wardrobe or props just to get the non-toon Iray textures that are add-ons to the products?
dForce Flashy Suit for Genesis 9 Iray Textures | Daz 3D
XI Demonic Guitar Set Add-On | Daz 3D
I don't use toon versions of anything, yet with these two products that I really, really want to purchase, the toon version is the base product required to purchase.
That's a non-starter for me. So I will not be purchasing these items.
Is this a new direction for DAZ3D products?
If the toon textures were the add-ons, I would buy the products minus the toon textures.
Does anyone else feel the same way?
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Comments
It's likely because Astaroth Addon bundle is themed around a toon version of him and the suit is a part of that bundle.
dForce Flashy Suit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D
If I purchase this toon base version, can it be rendered in Iray rather than Filatoons to look like normal clothing rather than toon?
I don't have any experience with the toon products, or with Filiatoon, which I assume uses the Filament render engine for toon products.
Why aer toon fans usually forced to buy the Iray vesion and then a toon add-on? In any event, there are plenty of fabric shaders - you may well have soem from freebies even - that could be used to switch it to Iray without neding to buy the add-on.
Yes - it seems a bit odd to be honest, toon textures are usually just colour no actual textures. To me it just seems a way to make customers pay more
Because you don't really need toon textures.
Fabric shader presets don't always look that good; fine for toon stuff where you don't want details but not for a realistic effect.
I have to admit I have the same feeling. I have no interest in or use for toons. I might have had some interest in one or more of these items, but having to buy the base product plus the add-on to reasonably use the base product is unappetizing.
Truthfully, though, there are a few items that I have bought because there was a texture add-on that was of particular interest even though I didn't like the base product, and arguably, this is no different from that situation. If I still like the item, I may buy it later with the add-on.
I would think the answer to that would be: Iray is the default renderer in Daz Studio.
I won't be underwriting this toon first policy, and I hope it will NOT become a trend with Daz Originals.
I wouldn't expect much effect from the 'default renderer' idea. Similar arguments were made about 3Delight when Iray was added. I doubt Daz cares which renderer anyone prefers, just which items the artists want to make and what sells.
Point taken, and no high-priced video card required, and AI has already boat-raced the photorealism game.
What happens if I try to render the toon items straight out of the box using Iray, without purchasing the texture add-ons or using any additional shaders??
Just curious.
I would like to point out that MacOS users are unable to use Filament and FilaToon products at this time. So making a base product in those textures and then the texture add-on in Iray, puts a additional charge on top of a feature we have been wanting for years. Yes, I have Windows systems with DS on them, but others are MacOS only. I would love Filament on my Macs.
Base products should be what every system can use, and the add-on what only specific systems are able to use. It is affecting my purchase decisions.
And then there are folks who may have decided to not invest into the Toons of any type. It may not be their jam.
Just my take PAs and Daz. For what's it worth.
Mary
Well, the product does list that you need the toon version before having to use it the addon-texture and they're offered in the toon bundle. I think most products should have toon textures as an alternative instead of the main, but the PAs have the right to create it as the situation is here. I'm on the fence about it really-I understand the frustration but it isn't like you aren't told you need the toon version first either. It's just like if someone's using mostly Toon skins needing to buy the Iray version first for certain things.
Because we toon fans are in the minority, same as 3Delight users or Mac users. The vast majority of DAZ Studio users are iray users and – in my opinion as a toon/3Delight/Mac user first and foremost -- the iray-users' interests should be served first.
-- Walt Sterdan
There's value in creating products aimed at the toon fans first and with the Iray users as a secondary market.
Very true, and the opposite is true. The issue is that the iRay users – for DAZ Studio – are the primary market. Toon users, 3DL users, Mac users, they're all secondary and tertiary markets. Even though I'm not, never have been and never plan to be an iRay user, they're clearly the main market and as such, their needs should be met first. It's a fairly simple business decision, meet the needs of as many of your customers as you can. There are many, many more iRay users than toon fans.
Absolutely right. It's just one of those things that PAs do from time to time and would be an overall better business decision to appeal to the Iray users first. Personally I'm a primary Iray user and because of that I won't spend the extra for this one, especially because I didn't even get the toon bundle.
Obviously, as I wouldn't expect DAZ to push toon stuff down our... so much right now if there wasn't. The easy solution for all those problems is: don't buy what You won't use or don't like.
As someone who is only interested in the toon version, I agree that it's silly to mix up both bundles. One should be all iRay and the other all toon. I don't want to have to buy an iRay version of something when I only want to use the toon version.
Well, that's borderline brilliant, two packages – one for each – with a bundle price that would be equal to one of the sets plus the other materials. A solution that's both simple and elegant.
The Astaroth 9 Add-On Bundle was all Filatoons according to the renders on the product pages. It's easy not to buy it and to pickoff the pieces that are the iRay versions instead.. I think Filatoons is great for DAZ as these characters that lend themselves to toon characters traditionally then can be made in Filatoon or Iray, eg, Astaroth, Wagner the Demon, Anime, the Thorne elven types like Calypso the Mermaid, even the tradition Greek and Roman and other myths are often presented in toon format, and many more. I don't mind paying for the Filatoons shader materials in separate products, eg some of the recent Astagoth Filatoons products I bought as addons to the main Astagoth 9 Bundle. Sometime Filatoons make more sense being the main product, like the recent Vicky 9 and Mikey 9. Or as a complete addon bundle using Filatoon materials as has been done.
Yeah that was also my sentiment. I passed on the toon bundle because while I like the style, it's a heavy investment to pick up a lot of the new stuff coming out constantly. It's a problem of too many good products and starting over.
The one saving grace with toon is having the shaders to help achieve the style but it's not the same.
+1!
What's the problem with having both toon & Iray shaders in the base product? Over the years, there have been many products with at least 2. First products with both Poser & Daz Studio presets/MATS. Then both Iray & 3DL. Heck, I've seen products that DO have both Filament/Filatoon & Iray, including:
https://www.daz3d.com/teras-bedroom
https://www.daz3d.com/toon-style-long-hair-with-bangs-for-genesis-9
https://www.daz3d.com/nirv-anime-modern-bedroom
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-nirv-zeros-shawl-double-ponytail-anime-hair-for-genesis-9-toon
I don't need the guitars for any projects, so wishlisted the base & add-on until they're in a good sale. Of course by that time I may have decided that "Those are COOL!" isn't a reason to buy & just remove them.
Just a totally stupid question: isn't it possible to just slap some other (Iray) shaders on those toonish looney items? From the promo pictures those guitar textures for Iray don't look that detailed.
Yes, the default Iray shaders for car paint, rubber, various metals, wood, plastic are availble to you even if you've never bought a shader meterial set product.