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Algovincian Non-Photorealistic Rendering (NPR)

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  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    Base pass sounds good, though I assume some of the other passes are also used with the contour functions for outlining.

    In my custom filters, I take a "beauty" or diffuse pass, reduce to monochrome, and pump up the constrast in order to do edge finding. I'm mostly using libraries like AForge, which is not strictly designed for creative output. It's more for things like scientific analysis, but it has some nice functionality for making art.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,011
    One reason I moved to cartoon render plugins (and that geoshell outline freebie) is that it saves an enormous amount of time and effort trying to intelligently get edge finding. Not perfect, since it often fails with opacity elements.
  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    edited January 2016

    The problem with most "canned" edge finding processes is that they lack the ability to know the shapes they are looking for. I suspect Greg's method includes this. So, for example, you might do a pass looking only for closed or mostly closed circles and rectangles, or a pass looking just for lines above or below a certain thickess, or going in a specific direction. Everything else is ignored. You can then composit the various results at various opacities to get the look you want (I do this manually; Greg has mentioned he does this part programmatically). 

    Being able to recognize the shapes themselves, rather than just apply an outline to everything, gives a more realistic drawn look. Even with that, though, I still tend to fuss in Photoshop anyway, and do manual painting/shading/coloring with the tablet. 

    What is your "go to" cartoon renderer for 3DL?  I actually still use Poser over D|S for this.

    Post edited by Tobor on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Tobor said:

    Base pass sounds good, though I assume some of the other passes are also used with the contour functions for outlining.

    In my custom filters, I take a "beauty" or diffuse pass, reduce to monochrome, and pump up the constrast in order to do edge finding. I'm mostly using libraries like AForge, which is not strictly designed for creative output. It's more for things like scientific analysis, but it has some nice functionality for making art.

    I'm not at the office right now, but when I get a chance, I'll upload all 8 analysis passes like I did for the mermaid image.

    - Greg

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,011

    I was having ok results with the core dzToon and the free Geometry Outline Shader, except dzToon... removes the ability of an object to cast shadows. Grr.

    Now I'm using PWToon, and enjoying it quite a bit. There are a few things I wish it did that it doesn't (like outlining material zones). There are, however, ways to work around that, like doing separate 'material ID' passes and whatnot.

    What I'm really liking is that, once you get familiar with it, the workflow is pretty short. Color images, I change four things, turn on outlines and inner lines, check the output, and maybe increase the size of outlines, and I'm done. B&W, I do mostly the same, but remove diffuse maps, set diffuse colors to pure white, and make sure it has a displacement map to catch details.

     

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    I have pwToon (but not dzToon), and it's pretty good. I also have one or two of the Visual Style shaders, but use these less often, along with some others that I've bought, but have never actually tried. I'm more likely to do a straight render, then post-process in Photoshop using an action or script, or one of my custom AForge filters. 

    On the Poser side, there are a couple of render scripts I've used for years that give interesting results. RDNA sells several of these, like their watercolor rendering set. They basically consist of new materials definitions and different types of render passes. I haven't yet purchased Poser 11, but I'd like to try their new comic/drawn style renderer. Smith Micro usually drops the upgrade price after 9-12 months, sometimes drastically, and I can wait.

     

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    algovincian said:

    My limited understanding of the PNG format is that the compression is a 2 part thing - (1) a predictive filtering which makes (2) DEFLATE (zlib lossless compression) more effective. I don't normally use PNGs, but it was suggested to me that it may be a way to avoid the aggressive JPG re-compression that the forums are setup to use on uploads.

    There are "levels" to PNG compression. It's all lossless, but same as with other lossless algos, the better ones take more time/CPU. So it looks like the forum software takes your "Ultra" 7zip and makes a "normal" ZIP out of it. I would've never thought it could be done; but at least you can't hurt the actual perceived quality of a losslessly compressed image. On the other hand, this reprocessing may be part of some AV protection here (to avoid malignant executable code that an evil hacker could theoretically insert into an image...).

    I use RIOT for every JPEG I save out (painstakingly set up for best quality, which is all rendered moot by the forums =(((( ), and for PNGs when size really matters. Other than that, I just export PNG files out of Paint.NET or Xara and call it a day.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    Tobor said:

    I have pwToon (but not dzToon)

    Isn't dzToon one of the "DS Default" shaders that come with DS?
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Tobor said:

    or one of my custom AForge filters. 

    Haven't ever checked this out before - thanks for mentioning it, Tobor!

    - Greg 

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Mustakettu85 said:

    I use RIOT

    Never heard of this, either. I'll check this out, too! I see that it has batch support - new tools all over the place . . .

    - Greg 

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    Mustakettu85 said:
    Tobor said:

    I have pwToon (but not dzToon)

    Isn't dzToon one of the "DS Default" shaders that come with DS?

    Oh, maybe so. I figure the defaults are probably not all that advanced, so I tend to skip them.

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Tobor said:

    Base pass sounds good, though I assume some of the other passes are also used with the contour functions for outlining.

    Here's all 8 analysis passes (4 in this post, and 4 in the next).

    - Greg 

    highlights.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 523K
    energy.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 216K
    color.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 541K
    base.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 477K
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613

    The worldmask pass is solid white, but I included it anyway.

    - Greg

    world-mask.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 27K
    fresnel.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 533K
    ao.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 837K
    z.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 145K
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    edited January 2016

    Here's one more in a few styles:

    Michael 4 Skeleton
    http://www.daz3d.com/m4-skeleton

    This will be my last post of renders. Over the last couple of weeks, I've managed to produce 15 sets of analysis passes covering a wide range of scene conditions - plenty to play with with as I make the next round of changes to the sketching/painting NPR algorithms (and I've got several planned).

    Thank you all for your interest - all of the comments truly are appreciated!

    - Greg

    epsilon-w-00001.jpg
    792 x 1029 - 1M
    fff-w-00001.jpg
    792 x 1029 - 532K
    paint-x.png
    792 x 1029 - 2M
    Post edited by algovincian on
  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    Greg, Thanks for the pass images. I can see there's very good detailing in your AO pass from which to trace contours and outlines. Very nice work.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212

    I love all the imagery. 

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    RAMWolff said:

    I love all the imagery. 

    It's nice to know I'm on the right track - thanks!

    - Greg

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191

    I have to say that I've enjoyed seeing all of the things you've managed to do.  Even though I don't do this type of render and postwork, I can still appreciate the shear beauty and dramatic effects of the resulting images.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Knittingmommy said:

    I have to say that I've enjoyed seeing all of the things you've managed to do.  Even though I don't do this type of render and postwork, I can still appreciate the shear beauty and dramatic effects of the resulting images.

    Thanks, Knittingmommy - it truly means alot. I appreciate the time you, and others, have taken to check out my work and comment!

    - Greg

  • luci45luci45 Posts: 2,759

    I draw and paint fairly well though I haven't done either much lately because of my obsession with 3D rendering. I usually don't like renders or photos that have been translated into what I consider a "fake drawing." These works of yours are a whole different thing - they are beautiful and elegant, clarifying and simplifying an image and focusing on certain aspects, some the reasons that artist's like to draw. Even the one you consider "busy" is a very nice illustration. 

    I find it amazing and fascinating that you do this by HDR-like compositing. I look forward to seeing more of your sets of analysis passes. 

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    algovincian said:

    Here's a few renders from a scene that came with the Starter Essentials we've all probably loaded/rendered before (can't remember for sure which one). I did make a substitution for our hero:

    The Great Wizards for Genesis 2 Male(s) by Mec4D
    http://www.daz3d.com/mec4d-the-great-wizards-for-genesis-2-male

    Started initial work on the integration of volumetric passes. For now, it's only included on the full color style and not included in any of the line art styles, but this will change in the future. 

    Also, for those that had expressed an interest, when I will upload the 8 analysis passes plus the volumetric pass rendered out of DAZ in the other NPR thread:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/982615/#Comment_982615

    These are the same files that were passed to the illustrators to create the final styles attached here.

    - Greg

    I love all three of these.  Seriously I would frame each one and hang them next to each other.  Fantastic!

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    luci45 said:

    I draw and paint fairly well though I haven't done either much lately because of my obsession with 3D rendering. I usually don't like renders or photos that have been translated into what I consider a "fake drawing." These works of yours are a whole different thing - they are beautiful and elegant, clarifying and simplifying an image and focusing on certain aspects, some the reasons that artist's like to draw. Even the one you consider "busy" is a very nice illustration. 

    I find it amazing and fascinating that you do this by HDR-like compositing. I look forward to seeing more of your sets of analysis passes. 

    I know what you mean, luci. I was never satisified with the automated drawing/sketching/painting filters & processes that are available. I was never satisifed with my own ability to draw, either!

    I do tend to believe that illustration can be thought of as an extreme form of HDR, with the artist (or software) making intelligent decisions about what lines to draw, what to emphasize, etc. There's more to it than compositing the analysis passes using HDR techniques (most notably the fractal algorithms that govern the strokes), but it does play an important role for sure.

    Thanks for taking the time to check out my work and comment!

    - Greg

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    I love all three of these.  Seriously I would frame each one and hang them next to each other.  Fantastic!

    Thanks, Ice - it was a quick, fun scene to run through the algos.

    - Greg

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,527

    Oh my, I hope you create this software because these images look incredible. Though, sadly, it might put me and other comic book artists out of a job. lol

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    divamakeup said:

    Oh my, I hope you create this software because these images look incredible. Though, sadly, it might put me and other comic book artists out of a job. lol

    Thanks for your kind words, divamakeup - it's truly appreciated. I don't think you have anything to worry about, though! It's the awesome comics rendered by artists like yourself that inspired development of the algorithms.

    - Greg

  • StrangeFateStrangeFate Posts: 806

    The b/w inked image look looks totally awesome, very dramatic. You could get some simple stylized colors back in there and I'd buy a book illustrated like that :)

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    strangefate_asdf said:

    The b/w inked image look looks totally awesome, very dramatic. You could get some simple stylized colors back in there and I'd buy a book illustrated like that :)

    Thanks for taking the time to post, strangefate_asdf. It's always helpful & appreciated to get feedback on what styles people like the most, as development is on-going on the existing styles (and many new ones, too).

    On another note and for those that haven't checked them out yet, strangefate_asdf is creating some awesome new weapons! The detail on them is fantastic, and they've got a great style to them. Take a peek here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1183181/#Comment_1183181

    I'm not sure how much help it would be in testing, but I'd love to setup some scenes with fantasy characters wielding them and run 'em through the algos!

    - Greg

  • StrangeFateStrangeFate Posts: 806

    Thanks for the Plug :)

    I'd love to see how they look in that style. When they're ready I'll PM you a link to them.

  • david_macraedavid_macrae Posts: 109
    edited December 2017

    Wow I am really glad I found this thread. This is awesome work.  I am very interested in NPR style renders. I am however a poser user so I do not come here that often but I will now to follow your progress. I am an animator interested in expanding the ability of making anime style 2d animation from 3d software. I have the ability to do all the various render passes but I am really interested un how you are recombining them.

    You can see what I have done on my blog: pineappleroads.com

    Cheers, David 

    Post edited by david_macrae on
  • david_macraedavid_macrae Posts: 109
    edited July 2016

    sorry double post

    Post edited by david_macrae on
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