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January 2016 New User 3D Art contest “Composition” (WIP Thread)

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    edited January 2016

    Okay I think I am making progress with her.  BUT for some reasons the blood and dirt shaders are not working correctly on the battle armour.  I can see the dirt and blood on the armour in the preview screen but it doesn't render.  But as you can see, on the skin and the handle of the sword, it renders just fine. And I still can't seem to get her face lit right, I have a spotlight shining directly on her face.  Doesn't seem to have made a difference

    Joan.png
    600 x 800 - 982K
    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    edited January 2016

    Here is a screen showing clearly the blood on her armour.

     

    Screen Shot Battle Maiden.jpg
    800 x 900 - 128K
    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    Saphirewild said:

    Here is another angle and more lighting still a WIP till the postwork if it doesn't have to be rendered again giggles!!!

    BTW: I figured out why the leaves look so weird it is the shadowing effect from the raytraced shadows

    The lighting is much better.  From this angle, the bird on the snowman's head is clearly visible.  It's also good to see the faces of both characters. 

    This angle presents a couple of new problems, however.  Both the tree and the man are cutting the picture in half, and they are lined up - it makes the crow look like its sitting on the man's hip.  I suggest moving the center tree to the right, and perhaps move the man to the left a little.  Additionally, raise or lower one of the snowman's arms so they are not exactly even. 

    You could turn the lighting down just a tiny bit more to make it softer, unless you are trying for the bright afternoon sun look. 

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    SGTGhost777 said:

    I titled this Master and Student.

     I posed and rendered everything in DAZ, then did some postwork in Photoshop CC 2015.

    I see you are using a very narrow camera focus here.  Normally I would say that this picture is overexposed, but in the case of the desert, it is fitting and gives the impression of sweltering heat.  If you could add sweat, that would really finish it. 

    You might try for a calm sky with only a few clouds, if any.  This is a desert after all.  Also, the clouds are so volatile that it appears there is a sandstorm coming after them.  Is this your intent? 

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think I am making progress with her.  BUT for some reasons the blood and dirt shaders are not working correctly on the battle armour.  I can see the dirt and blood on the armour in the preview screen but it doesn't render.  But as you can see, on the skin and the handle of the sword, it renders just fine. And I still can't seem to get her face lit right, I have a spotlight shining directly on her face.  Doesn't seem to have made a difference

    You have so much dirt on her face it looks as though her face has been burned.  If that's the case, no wonder she is mad!

    The background looks a little flat and not clearly recognizable as mountains. 

    Sorry I don't have an answer to your lighting and muck smearing problem - I haven't worked with IRay yet. 

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    dracorn said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think I am making progress with her.  BUT for some reasons the blood and dirt shaders are not working correctly on the battle armour.  I can see the dirt and blood on the armour in the preview screen but it doesn't render.  But as you can see, on the skin and the handle of the sword, it renders just fine. And I still can't seem to get her face lit right, I have a spotlight shining directly on her face.  Doesn't seem to have made a difference

    You have so much dirt on her face it looks as though her face has been burned.  If that's the case, no wonder she is mad!

    The background looks a little flat and not clearly recognizable as mountains. 

    Sorry I don't have an answer to your lighting and muck smearing problem - I haven't worked with IRay yet. 

    Ya I'm working on toning it down a bit.  And fixing the eyes since generally, the eyes aren't covered in dirt and blood like that.  Finally found the right spot to put the image map into for that about 2 minutes ago.  Sadly, I have put the image with the blood and dirt into every available surface channel and its still not showing.  I can do it in post work but I'm stubborn and I want to know how to do it in Studio lol.

  • Security16Security16 Posts: 79
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Here is a screen showing clearly the blood on her armour.

     

    In the render it the blood on the armour is showing slightly but it's very dark. Are you using an IRAY shader and materials if rendering with IRAY? You could possibly change the diffuse colour of those surfaces to something lighter perhaps?

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    Security16 said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Here is a screen showing clearly the blood on her armour.

     

    In the render it the blood on the armour is showing slightly but it's very dark. Are you using an IRAY shader and materials if rendering with IRAY? You could possibly change the diffuse colour of those surfaces to something lighter perhaps?

    Oh that worked hurray!  Thank you thank you!

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    edited January 2016

    Okay I think this is much better.  Still can't get the blood on the sword blade but I will keep working on that and if I have to I will do it postwork.  You can at least see her face and eyes and hopefully the rock shader makes it a bit more clear that those are rocks right behind her.  Any thoughts as to what else might need tweeked to get this one finished?  I still need to work on the last stop lighting as well and maybe add a couple of things to the scene yet.

    Joan .png
    600 x 800 - 1009K
    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited January 2016
    Linwelly said:
    TabascoJack said:

     

    Welcome to the forums TabascoJack (are you very spicy?). Your render is a nice start though it is a bit hard to say something specific as it is rather darc. It is pretty hard to make a good scene with a night setting.

    For the moment surely is the main eyecatcher, if that is supposed to be the way it would be an additional aid to move it to one of the grid line intersections. The most light in the moment is pointing to her chest. While that certainly is an intersting bodypart for about half of the population, it doen't help telling your story, compostitionwhise you habe the right half of your render filled with empty space. That is not a bad thing but should be used intentionally. rith now the render appears a little unbalanced.

    Now for planning what to change and how you need to think what kind of story you want to tell. On the one hand you have someone sneaking around in the darkness with a weapon, but that weapon is absolutely unsneaky (I will not talk about the dress here as there could be all kinds of reasons why she wears that thing). As an idea how about changing that weapon to a more traditional dagger /shortsword which is accidentially blinking in the light shining out from the room.

    Whatever you decide that is now up to you. I will be interested what you come up with.

    Linwelly,

      Thank you for the comments.  I agree, the sword is too much in that first render.  I was trying for a "glowing when in danger" idea, but I don't think the effect was what I had hoped for.  And while I admit a certain appreciation of a specific part of the female anatomy, that wasn't meant to be the focal point. 

     

    Teofa said:

    I love dark images but they are tricky.  I find I end up using more lights..low intensity, than I do on a bright image.  I would think, perhaps that changing the angle (rotation) of your pose (or just the torso) to have more of it as a silhouette would let the low light show some details that are a little hidden.  It would also allow you to emphasize her looking to her left more, as if something might be behind her.  If it were mine, I would go off center a bit more, to which direction depends on what you have in mind.

    I think the sword would be maybe better with a glow rather than being so bright.  In your dark image, it's going to want to keep taking focus.  Ignore me if that's your plan, it's a neat sword.

    The only "off" thing that I noticed... and this is really minor, is that she is Fantasy and Stone cities era backed by what seems to be modern city window lights.  Like I said, minor.

    Any time I am in a posing mode, I do it on myself.  Sitting here, I find that if I calmly look to the side, I have her position.  If I am turning as if to see behind, I find I lift that shoulder/collar slightly and twist my torso.  I don't know which you want.

    Teofa, 

      Thanks for your comments also.  As mentioned above, I agree that the sword was distracting.  Regarding the lights in the background, they're actually cast by a distant light through some lattice work, although with the depth of field it does kind of look like city lights.

     

      The story I'm going for is a woman in the shadows about to turn the tables on her unseen stalker.  

      I've dropped the glow from the sword, bumped up the ISO to brighten the overall scene, changed the white point to get a cooler temp, moved the lights up to her head, added a second (dim) fill light, and rotated the pose some more.  The sword should be more of a suggestion now, instead of the focus.  It's picked up the ambient light and has a bit of a sheen to it.

    Hunter 5.jpg
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    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited January 2016

    Duplicate Post  - Please delete/

    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548

    TabascoJack the newest version is coming along nicely!

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think this is much better.  Still can't get the blood on the sword blade but I will keep working on that and if I have to I will do it postwork.  You can at least see her face and eyes and hopefully the rock shader makes it a bit more clear that those are rocks right behind her.  Any thoughts as to what else might need tweeked to get this one finished?  I still need to work on the last stop lighting as well and maybe add a couple of things to the scene yet.

    The dirty face looks much better... but amidst the battle, the blood and everything, she still had time to freshen her lipstick.  Kinda like Princess Leia in the first Star Wars movie, but hey, what's a fashion conscious girl gonna do before battle?  =o)

    The rock shader helps considerably.  Perhaps darker light on the rocks will pull them into the background, because at the current brightness, they look like she is standing right next to them... as in a few feet away rather than the rocks in the distance.  Also, the value competes with the figure because they are similar intensity.  Also consider reducing the tiling on the rock shader, because the large scale also contributes to the rocks' nearness. 

  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

    Thanks Sonja and Linwelly for your comments and thanks Sapphirewild for the laughlaugh

    I made some changes based on the comments and let it render over night. Still failed to light up the lead girl's face and her eyes make her look like an alien. After almost 8 hours it had reached 0.90% conversion... I'm not so thrilled over the idea of a 800+ hours render so I think I'll leave this one for now.

    leaderofthepack2.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,947
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think this is much better.  Still can't get the blood on the sword blade but I will keep working on that and if I have to I will do it postwork.  You can at least see her face and eyes and hopefully the rock shader makes it a bit more clear that those are rocks right behind her.  Any thoughts as to what else might need tweeked to get this one finished?  I still need to work on the last stop lighting as well and maybe add a couple of things to the scene yet.

    God thing you got some of the blood stains to work. I had to laugh a little placing this thought to her" I look like a mess but at least the lipstick did his job".

    I'm sorry that I cann be of no help for getting the lights in the face working as they should but what I noticed is that the rocks and the background look flat, can you put some bump/ displacement on them? have you the shadows acitve on your lights? I see one shadow from that loincloth thingi going right on the leg and probanly one from the sword to the face of the girl so there seems to be on light coming from the left side. then there seems a back light from the opposit side...thinking that your problem might be that you hae in total something the light engineers call lightpulp.

    Last question (not to mess up you render) she is supposed to be left handed?

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,412
    edited January 2016

    Time to give contests another try- this time I choose a classical space-opera black-and-white cover. (Its composition, not colors in this contest, right? And I love black-and-white-retro-look)

    spacecity2as.jpg
    742 x 989 - 151K
    Post edited by cherpenbeck on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823
    edited January 2016

    @cherpenbeck In my opinion there is nothing wrong with well done B&W , except the lack of it today :).  Yes, it's composition, not color.

    I think, in my opinion, the scene could use some DOF.  I think the basic composition looks pretty good.

    Post edited by Teofa on
  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,412

    Thanks, I'll tweak it a bit to show more distance.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    cherpenbeck said:

    Time to give contests another try- this time I choose a classical space-opera black-and-white cover. (Its composition, not colors in this contest, right? And I love black-and-white-retro-look)

     I could use a bigger view.

    To be honest, it looks kind of flat. And eveything is bumping into each other. The antenna and the zeppelin (?) are bumping into the moon. The skycar is hardly distinguisable from the buildings behind it. Its very busy, with little differntiation... everything is on these vertical lines that run through the image from top to bottom.

    I don't mean to be harsh.

    The zeppelin stands out, mostly because its so dark compared to the rest but from there the rest of it kind of runs together.

    I would suggest moving the camera down and to the left, then panning up towards the scene and possibly adding a little Z-axis tilt to the camera.

    I'm also wondering how this is lit. Again... its quite flat. There are no shadows that I can see.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think this is much better.  Still can't get the blood on the sword blade but I will keep working on that and if I have to I will do it postwork.  You can at least see her face and eyes and hopefully the rock shader makes it a bit more clear that those are rocks right behind her.  Any thoughts as to what else might need tweeked to get this one finished?  I still need to work on the last stop lighting as well and maybe add a couple of things to the scene yet.

    I think this screams for a shallow DOF, with her face in focus and the swords not. But that's just me.  Her face tells the story. I might even adjust her gaze (not her head, just her eyes) to be looking at the camera.  Are you still working to light her face?

  • Babalar1Babalar1 Posts: 71
    edited January 2016
    FyreHeart said:

    By popular demand, I added some background elements, so it's clearer he's in a pub.

    The first two fingers of his right hand had a strange twist in them, which I've corrected (good catch dracorn, thanks!). I played with the pose on his left hand, and even compared it to my own hand holding a book, but nothing seemed better so I went back to the original pose. His thumb is at a bit of a strange angle, but that's because he's holding a frame and trying not to cover the picture. I also adjusted his arm/hand position closer to the original render and I like it better.

    Finally, I added a gradient to the ale and the teardrop back in with Photoshop. Comments welcome.

     

    I like the fact you can tell the story of his sorrow ( a lost love I'm sure) even though the picture frame is turned away from the viewer.  It's looking good already but a few suggestions that might or might not help;  if you propogate his head a little and shorten his neck it could give his face more priority.  another thought is the three main focus points the beer, picture frame and his head could make for a stronger emotional impact if they were grouped closer.  And one last thought is seeing how you could add more drama possibly if the light came in from the left side for some great shadow affects.  I'm off work today because of a cold and have more time than I know what to do with so, hope you don't mind if I made some very crude adjustments to your image to give a better idea of what I'm referring to. Oh and i added Teofa's foam:)   Nice work!  

    HeresToUs shadow.jpg
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    Post edited by Babalar1 on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,464
    edited January 2016
    TabascoJack said:
    Linwelly said:
    TabascoJack said:

     

    Welcome to the forums TabascoJack (are you very spicy?). Your render is a nice start though it is a bit hard to say something specific as it is rather darc. It is pretty hard to make a good scene with a night setting.

    For the moment surely is the main eyecatcher, if that is supposed to be the way it would be an additional aid to move it to one of the grid line intersections. The most light in the moment is pointing to her chest. While that certainly is an intersting bodypart for about half of the population, it doen't help telling your story, compostitionwhise you habe the right half of your render filled with empty space. That is not a bad thing but should be used intentionally. rith now the render appears a little unbalanced.

    Now for planning what to change and how you need to think what kind of story you want to tell. On the one hand you have someone sneaking around in the darkness with a weapon, but that weapon is absolutely unsneaky (I will not talk about the dress here as there could be all kinds of reasons why she wears that thing). As an idea how about changing that weapon to a more traditional dagger /shortsword which is accidentially blinking in the light shining out from the room.

    Whatever you decide that is now up to you. I will be interested what you come up with.

    Linwelly,

      Thank you for the comments.  I agree, the sword is too much in that first render.  I was trying for a "glowing when in danger" idea, but I don't think the effect was what I had hoped for.  And while I admit a certain appreciation of a specific part of the female anatomy, that wasn't meant to be the focal point. 

     

    Teofa said:

    I love dark images but they are tricky.  I find I end up using more lights..low intensity, than I do on a bright image.  I would think, perhaps that changing the angle (rotation) of your pose (or just the torso) to have more of it as a silhouette would let the low light show some details that are a little hidden.  It would also allow you to emphasize her looking to her left more, as if something might be behind her.  If it were mine, I would go off center a bit more, to which direction depends on what you have in mind.

    I think the sword would be maybe better with a glow rather than being so bright.  In your dark image, it's going to want to keep taking focus.  Ignore me if that's your plan, it's a neat sword.

    The only "off" thing that I noticed... and this is really minor, is that she is Fantasy and Stone cities era backed by what seems to be modern city window lights.  Like I said, minor.

    Any time I am in a posing mode, I do it on myself.  Sitting here, I find that if I calmly look to the side, I have her position.  If I am turning as if to see behind, I find I lift that shoulder/collar slightly and twist my torso.  I don't know which you want.

    Teofa, 

      Thanks for your comments also.  As mentioned above, I agree that the sword was distracting.  Regarding the lights in the background, they're actually cast by a distant light through some lattice work, although with the depth of field it does kind of look like city lights.

     

      The story I'm going for is a woman in the shadows about to turn the tables on her unseen stalker.  

      I've dropped the glow from the sword, bumped up the ISO to brighten the overall scene, changed the white point to get a cooler temp, moved the lights up to her head, added a second (dim) fill light, and rotated the pose some more.  The sword should be more of a suggestion now, instead of the focus.  It's picked up the ambient light and has a bit of a sheen to it.

    She's almost in the perfect center of the frame, but not quite framed by the pillars behind her.  I might move the camera so the left pillar is out of the frame and the right pillar (where your light spills over) takes promience but with the open vista more apparent behind her.  Shes grounded, bordered; not much suggesting peril.  I think opening the frame will add a little of that while the pose and sword suggest she is capable of handling said peril. You might also shoot her from a little above.

    Post edited by evilded777 on
  • Babalar1Babalar1 Posts: 71
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Okay I think this is much better.  Still can't get the blood on the sword blade but I will keep working on that and if I have to I will do it postwork.  You can at least see her face and eyes and hopefully the rock shader makes it a bit more clear that those are rocks right behind her.  Any thoughts as to what else might need tweeked to get this one finished?  I still need to work on the last stop lighting as well and maybe add a couple of things to the scene yet.

    it looks great already I think.  Have you thought of using a plane with emmision lighting to highlight her more.  I find it works wonders.  

  • Babalar1Babalar1 Posts: 71
    edited January 2016
    isidorn said:

    Thanks Sonja and Linwelly for your comments and thanks Sapphirewild for the laughlaugh

    I made some changes based on the comments and let it render over night. Still failed to light up the lead girl's face and her eyes make her look like an alien. After almost 8 hours it had reached 0.90% conversion... I'm not so thrilled over the idea of a 800+ hours render so I think I'll leave this one for now.

    I was going to make a suggestion having the girl on the left throw her arm out to the side for a triangle effect and just noticed you already changed it.  I like how you created a look of action with just how they are walking toward the viewer.    

    Post edited by Babalar1 on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548

    Thank you everyone!  Yes I noticed the lipstick once I could see her face but it was just too late to mess with it anymore. The rocks actually are right behind her, they are part of the prop she is standing on so I am not sure how to fix that.  I could of course just take them out completely and use something else farther away as you can't see what she is standing on anyway.  I will give the emissive plane a try although its not as critical now that that I can actually see her face lol.  I do have a fondness for lefties since I am married to one lol.  I'm not picky I figure she looks like she weild those swords quite well with either hand.  I am headed out the door but will work on this later.

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 6,668
    dracorn said:
    Saphirewild said:

    Here is another angle and more lighting still a WIP till the postwork if it doesn't have to be rendered again giggles!!!

    BTW: I figured out why the leaves look so weird it is the shadowing effect from the raytraced shadows

    The lighting is much better.  From this angle, the bird on the snowman's head is clearly visible.  It's also good to see the faces of both characters. 

    This angle presents a couple of new problems, however.  Both the tree and the man are cutting the picture in half, and they are lined up - it makes the crow look like its sitting on the man's hip.  I suggest moving the center tree to the right, and perhaps move the man to the left a little.  Additionally, raise or lower one of the snowman's arms so they are not exactly even. 

    You could turn the lighting down just a tiny bit more to make it softer, unless you are trying for the bright afternoon sun look. 

    I was going for the bight sunny winter day like it is here most days after a good snow fall.

    and I do see what you are talking about with the center tree and Micheal cutting the render in half.

    and wow you r right into my head with the snowman cause I was thinking the same thing that he needs to look more like he is talking with those hands (Sticks) of his lolz.

    I will post the new one later on tonite when I get done rearranging my bedroom as I need more room in there omg!!

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    evilded777 said:
    cherpenbeck said:

    Time to give contests another try- this time I choose a classical space-opera black-and-white cover. (Its composition, not colors in this contest, right? And I love black-and-white-retro-look)

     I could use a bigger view.

    To be honest, it looks kind of flat. And eveything is bumping into each other. The antenna and the zeppelin (?) are bumping into the moon. The skycar is hardly distinguisable from the buildings behind it. Its very busy, with little differntiation... everything is on these vertical lines that run through the image from top to bottom.

    I don't mean to be harsh.

    The zeppelin stands out, mostly because its so dark compared to the rest but from there the rest of it kind of runs together.

    I would suggest moving the camera down and to the left, then panning up towards the scene and possibly adding a little Z-axis tilt to the camera.

    I'm also wondering how this is lit. Again... its quite flat. There are no shadows that I can see.

    I agree with evilded777.  The values of the city are so monochromatic that it appears flat.  Perhaps Tim Burton can be an inspiration here?  Instead of full BW, add just a hint of color.  Also deepen the shadows in the background city to pull it back from the foreground buildings.  Another idea is to make the time of day closer to sunset or twilight.  The background city can withdraw with the winking lights as highlights.  Add more light to your foreground buildings as well as the vehicles to make them stand out. 

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    cherpenbeck said:

    Time to give contests another try- this time I choose a classical space-opera black-and-white cover. (Its composition, not colors in this contest, right? And I love black-and-white-retro-look)

    Looking forward to seeing what you do with this!

  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,601

    When rendering this my computer is now starting to make threats directed at my anatomical elements and I got an error message during the last rendering. An error that resulted in DAZ being unable to save the image so I had to take a screenshot of it. Because of that the bottom of the image is cropped out.

    Put a spotlight on the lead's face (but I think I need to make it a bit stronger), made a few minor changes to the girls (including putting some weight on the blonde. She was unnervingly skinny) and changed the left wall. But I'm not sure the wall became for the better. Is it too much empty space to the left now? Attaching previous version too for easy comparison.

    leaderofthepack3.jpg
    1895 x 930 - 587K
    leaderofthepack2.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • D.RobinsonD.Robinson Posts: 283

    Bit late to the party on this one. This is what i have so far, i titled it Country Girl.

     

    Daniel

     

    Country Girl.jpg
    1920 x 1264 - 2M
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