What happens to vendors now, we done?!
matteorenderz
Posts: 5
This is the end of the store then, you will not buy anything anymore, specially not clothing or environment, we vendors better start looking for something entirely else to do, coz when the text to 3D jumps in, woh, I dont know how accurate the AI will be in undressing morphs thats the only thing I can think of when you will need some 3d modeller to help you .... but everything else, sionara!!!
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Blender market and Artstation are race-to-the-bottom in terms of pricing, so wonder how feasible it will be for people to migrate to other 3d marketplaces.
Writing is kind of on the wall if even Tafi is cannibalising its own market (which is 2d image generation) by making a competing 2d image generator which will only ever attract their own cusomters and only ever compete with their own products, since it is not good enough to compete with other AI
Why? I have no intention of not buying 3D content in future, anymore than I stopped when other AI tools were released, anymore than I have stopped using 2D tools since having 3D. Different people are going to want different tools and workflows in varying combinations.
It really depends on what the needs are - personally I don't plan on stopping either creating or being a vendor anytime soon :)
While AI can generate impressive images, there is still a significant gap when it comes to the specific needs and quality standards required for professional-grade 3D models. Vendors provide highly detailed, accurate, and customizable models that meet the specific needs of various industries, from gaming and film to architecture and education. These models often include intricate details and textures that AI-generated images may not capture or reproduce accurately.
3D models purchased from vendors can be customized extensively. Users can modify aspects like textures, materials, and geometry to fit their exact requirements. There's also the aspect of proprietary designs and unique creations that come from human artists, which are valuable for branding and unique project needs.
Purchasing 3D models from reputable vendors ensures that the assets are legally cleared for use, with clear licensing terms. AI-generated images, especially those created from broad input parameters, might pose risks in terms of copyright and intellectual property, making vendor-sourced models a safer legal choice.
As AI technology evolves, the role of 3D model vendors may shift rather than disappear. Vendors could start offering more specialized services, such as customizing AI-generated models, providing AI training data, or developing proprietary AI systems tailored to specific industries or applications.
Certain niche markets or specialized fields may require 3D models with such high levels of accuracy and detail that AI-generated images cannot yet achieve. In these cases, the expertise of specialized 3D modelers remains indispensable.
My 2 cents :)
I have zero interest in using AI. I don't understand where the fun or creativity is in typing in a prompt to get an image, the enjoyment is the process of creating the piece. This is literally the hit make art button that we've all been joking about for years here on the forums. I love discovering new things about what your original intention was as the art takes on a life of it's own. You can't recreate that process with AI. I'm fairly certain there's more people like myself who will continue to pick up items in the store.
Indeed. especially environment sets.
Well, the situation here is very different in the short term and the long term. In the long term, of COURSE it's the end of the kind of content creation digital artists having been doing up until now: anyone who's been paying the slightest attention to the pace of AI development can see that within about ten years, at the very most, these tools will be creating photorealistic full-motion video complete with sound effects and dialogue and so on, and responding to whatever prompts the directors give ("yeah, like that, but make the soldiers taller and the armour a bit less shiny and more rusty-looking")... the idea that anyone will be employed to spend hours creating 3D scenes that AI can create immediately is absurd. Whatever fine-tuning and control digital creators currently have, through tools like Daz Studio, is going to be completely eclipsed by the power of AI tools, within the next few years. So for Daz to start shifting into AI-assisted creation doesn't merely make sense, it's essential if they're to survive in any form at all.
On the other hand, right now, no, this "Daz AI" product looks to be (from my testing, at least) exactly like all the other current AI image generators: so strikingly obviously flawed that there is still a need for the kind of content creation we do in Daz Studio. The same things that expose the problems in all the current AI image generators expose the problems in this one too (loading a model like Victoria 9 doesn't seem to make any difference at all: the weird, mutant hands and feet with oddly shaped and/or too many fingers and toes, so notorious as one of the giveaways of AI image generation, and the asymmetrical inhuman-looking eyes, and all the rest... as far as I can see, none of that has been fixed, this is just bog-standard AI image generation that is not being constrained by Daz 9 metrics/textures/etc. as the marketing suggests... though perhaps that's in development, if Daz are working closely with the developers of the AI tools...). So content creators still have a role, for now at least.
There are already AI tools to create 3D models from 2D photographs, and based on what I've seen of them (people dancing and changing their facial expressions, all derived from a single 2D photo as input), they are already vastly superior to the facegen tools in Daz Studio. The idea that vendors will be able to continue to make money from 3D figures like Victoria, when AI is going to be able to create photorealistic 3D people from verbal instructions, instantly and with no need for any skills at all from the user (other than the ability to articulate what s/he wants to see) is nonsensical: digital content creation, in its current forms, is enjoying the last few years of its existence. No doubt the new tech will open up new forms as it always has, so I'm not saying all the Daz vendors need to retrain as massage therapists... maybe Daz AI will eventually integrate the manual control of Studio with the automation of language-based AI, and this will offer a pathway into a new income stream for some artists (though I certainly wouldn't count on that, given the ease with which everyone in the world will be able to create new content)... but seriously, if anyone still can't see what's coming, at the rate that AI is improving, and imagines that in another five years they'll be rendering and selling art the way they are today... well, maybe ignorance is bliss.
We're not going to get into that discussion in these threads, there is a whole forum dedicated to them, but to be fair this isn't on the same level, there were a whole lot of world factors financially going on at the time.
In my opinion the generator is not targeting our current Daz community since we all love diving deep into the creative process and having full control over our projects. And honestly, I feel incredibly lucky to do what I love and even get paid for it. But even if things were to change tomorrow, I’d keep doing this because the joy of creating is what really matters to me.
I’ve noticed how people who struggle with complex tools still have a strong desire to create and how they find joy in using AI tools. A friend of mine, for instance, crafted an entire series of dinosaur tales for his grandson using AI, something he wouldn't have attempted in Daz Studio due to the steep learning curve. I think it’s wonderful that these tools can open up the world of creativity to everyone. And who knows? Some of these users might get the itch for even more creative freedom and decide to explore Daz Studio, learning the ropes to bring their visions to life even more fully.
For those wondering what there is about "ai": Text interfacing could even make sense, it has potential :). Concerning results, there'll be some, at least we have a glimpse at what it does now.
Concerning DAZ approach - no idea what's under the hood. In theory you could train it from scratch via rendered assets, including post stuff, vdb stuff, whatever stuff. Or it's some kind of style thing (based on what? a generic thing trained for shapes perhaps? or the full internet !?) - however a LORA may still not prevent revealing (some of) what's underneath, if it was one. Back to training... if they did it pretty much from scratch, it would make sense to have characters as add-ons, because someone has to render them, and it also is systematic concerning the consent question. Pricing and if you should get the ai version for free or at a discount, if you own the 3d-character... that's another thing to ask. Basically i see some questionmarks, and it's beta still.
I feel the same way. I'm not going to stop buying my 3D content. I just wish I could use my existing content already purchased with the new AI.
If the text to 3d function is pulling from the Daz library full of 3D artists who opted in, then it won't be a threat to vendors as it directly pulls resources from them. It needs them to even function properly and give the tool some sort of depth + leg up on the AI generation industry. It would in theory be 3D kitbashing, just with AI serving as the middle man. Depending on how Daz/Tafi go about it, they might see an increase of vendors offering potentially a greater variety/specialty of assets. But that's only if Daz can make it worth their while and showcase some form of ethics in the process.
One of the biggest issues Daz has (for example) is the lack of proper armor sets for women. Gen 9 helped resolve that issue a little bit, but it's still a bunch of pinups girls with exposed vitals. It's possible depending how they go about this whole AI thing, they could get around that. Maybe even end the whole need of the genesis line entirely (at some point) all the while properly adding backwards + cross gender compatability.
Lots of what if's right now. lol Given the tech that would reallllllllllly need to bring this to the forefront, I am not holding my breathe.
I'm a believer in AI as a tool. Generative AI as a substitute for creativity is going to kill human creativity. Now people just have to say what they want to see, maybe learn how to add details to a generative AI interface, and just click generate until they see something they like.
AI is costing artist jobs. I know too many (two) book and DVD cover artists who had to go back into service industry jobs because no one is paying two hundred to a thousand bucks for cover art when they can pay someone to use generative AI to do it for ten to twenty bucks. They don't even realize they're buying cover art that often cannot be copyrighted.
When marketing managers can type a few words and pretend to have created art, why drop hundreds or thousands of dollars on an artist? We know that artist created art is inherintly better but managers just want to save money.
No artists means no customers for the seller of art supplies - like the companies that sell models for 3d artists.
AI might seem like the wave of the future, but the market is saturated with Generative AI art tools.
Yes, I've tried the Daz AI tool and it's a decent Generative AI tool. It's probably a top-5 contender. But there are free Generative AI tools that are on par with the DAZ AI tool (Perchance for example)
I think Daz would have been better to stick to their niche and not antagonize their traditional customer base.
Apparently currently there is some base (Stability AI ... what models?), and not just DAZ content. Doesn't mean that's all though.
I'm an animator and have already lost the bulk of the work I've been doing for a few years because of AI through Synthesia. I'm looking at new career options as well.
A bold move considering the outrage about so called "AI image generation" in the artist community and seeing the fact that the models were trained without artists consent. Multiple lawsuits are already going on and using these image generation algorithms based off the works of artists without their consent can be a shoot in the knee for any company trying to make money from it. Also the results created by the DAZ version is by far inferior to those of other algorithms.
The question if vendors items become obsolete actually is a relevant one. DAZ could have opted to use AI for upscaling or noise reduction or in- and outpainting, instead they choose to release another inferior image generator that still does not even get hands right, a problem that was solved months ago, encouraging people to use this cheap and easy way, instead of buying assets.
Nothing good will come from this. If DAZ wanted to boost other render applications they are doing a great job.
Depends on what the user is after.
If the user just wants pictures or video, ok but one could use Google image search to find millions of pictures and videos.
For me the pictures and videos are just one part of the enjoyment and often I don't even make them at all, but I jump in to the digital 3D world that I have created in DS and enjoy interacting with the assets I have loaded - AI cannot give the same.
The way I look at this is even though photography exists, people still like to paint and draw when they could just take an instant picture of the flower vase in front of them. I'm not trying to equate ai generators to photography which is definitely an artistic discipline but you get what I'm saying.
I personally don't find ai generators enjoyable. I love the creative process and all the control it allows you to have over the final image. I would actually love to see more people get into 'traditional 3D' that started with an ai generator and want to take more control over their images.
I am hoping that all this ai stuff will make 'traditional 3D' more popular but maybe that's just me being optimistic while the robots are coming for us all.
Daz Studio isn't going anywhere. If you love traditional/non ai art, make that art and support artists. I know I will continue to do so.
The main difference is: Photography is just another way of artistic expression, but YOU take the picture (choosing the scene, the model, the lighting et cetera) and YOU do the postwork in Photoshop or Lightroom. Creating an image via a deep learning algorithm is like telling someone else to take a picture or paint a painting and then claim "you did it yourself". I see useful applications for deep learning trained models in upscaling and denoising or via models you trained yourself and using them for things like e.g. backgrounds, but in my opinion what DAZ tries to do here is a cheap cash grab with an old model (seeing the results that are months behind current models).
I use AI a lot
it hasn't stopped me shopping at DAZ3D or elsewhere for 3D content
I buy and render heaps
so.... I am unsure what happens to vendors other than some getting pissy and pulling their products
and in one case ensuring I will never buy another thing from them by their comments to me
It will not be the end of the store. If you are a vendor your content will be appreciated. Maybe even more so. Some just hate AI and are happy to keep buying traditional well crafted 3d content.
Just don't worry
AI generated images cannot be copyrighted. Not unless there is extensive human input to the point where the AI image itself is just a base and not the bulk of the image. Let's not discount the environmental costs of AI either. Google the effects of what happens with using massive amounts of AI computing as is being done now by countless AI image generating sites.
I'm not sure about that. I think Daz has to find a way to blend itself into the generative AI bandwagon, but the current beta isn't it IMO. As mentioned, so far it seems like another app just like several other (free) ones. But Daz has to experiment to eventually find its "unique selling point".
+1 :)
It was in a movie somewhere... When an old thing meets a new thing, it never goes well.
Good luck
yes the hand and feet are dead give aways. and i read somewhere why and it made sense. now if daz could some how force the AI to follow the bones system of it's genesis models ....well than ....... but i don't think that is how AIs work right now. right now they are 'dumb', but that is what coders are for :-)
ControlNet OpenPose
+1
I play with many of the AI generators online and the ethical/copyright issue is what keeps me from embracing it. I especially love the results of using it to enhance an existing render and maiking it even more realistic. That being said, I honestly feel 3d vendors should be worried. This is a small market and AI will take a big chunk of it away at some point. Even if a user still uses DS to create a basic image to load into AI and get a better outcome, there are more than enough assets in the DAZ store to create a basic template for this type of use. I think many that say they are not into AI haven't actually tried it or gotten good results, but once they do it will be hard to many of them to go back.