Super Fun Happy Computer Upgrade Time
hjake
Posts: 893
Super Fun Happy Computer Upgrade Time
- UPDATED 2024-02-24 - RTX 40 series graphics cards
- UPDATED 2024-11-16 - Drive C & D on main computer system and 32" LG monitor died in-warranty.
I upgraded my RTX 2070 Super to a RTX 4080 Super.
I will ask my question first so it does not get lost in the details.
QUESTION:
If I install a PCI-E 4.0 graphics card (RTX 4060 Ti 16GB) on to a PCI-E 3.0 motherboard will that have a significant negative impact on rendering time with iRay? I know it will increase loading time for geometry and textures but what kind of impact does it have on completing rendering iterations?
SHARING MY EXPERIENCE:
I started this thread to ask my question, share my experience with my upgrade, and in the hopes that it will become a thread where others will share their upgrades.
The sharing of upgrades is meant to be in relation to DAZ Studio iRay, Filament, and 3Delight rendering performance.
I have two home computers. My main computer is connected to a Samsung 3840x2160 27" monitor and an AOC 2650x1440 27" monitor. I connect to my secondary computer through Splashtop Remote Desktop or Windows Remote Desktop. My secondary computer is mainly used to run iRay renders while I work on my main computer, so rendering speed is not as critical.
Upgrade number one is replacing the AOC 27" with an LG UltraGear 32GR93U 3840x2160 32" monitor. Going forward I would not buy another 27" at 3840x2160. The best size is 32" to 48" for 16:9 (UHD) resolution. 2650x1440 (QHD) is best for 27" monitor size. The LG is a "budget" monitor but I am satisfied with my purchase and the better alternatives were atleast $600 CAD more expensive. UPDATE: Not so satisfied with the LG 32" monitor lines appeared across bottom have of screen. LG 1 year In-Warranty service is carry-in service to a small TV repair store 1 hour away from my home only open during weekdays between 10am and 5pm by appointment only. Bought 32" Samsung budget monitor for a third of the price and it has a 3 year warranty. Guess who I will do business with in future.
Upgrade number two is replacing my Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super Windforce 3 OC with a Gigabyte RTX 4080 Super Gaming OC 16G.
Before I list my render times with "RayDAnt_DS_Iray_Benchmark_2019A_r4.duf" here are my system specs. I use HWINFO to gather my system specs ( https://www.hwinfo.com/ ).
Main computer system configuration:
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Gaming X
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3600.0 MHZ
GPU: Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super replaced by Gigabyte RTX 4080 Super
System Memory: 64GB (DDR4-3200 / PC4-25600) [2x Corsair and 2x G.Skill 16GB modules]
OS Drive C: Samsung 990 Pro 4TB
Asset Drive: Seagate 6TB (ST6000VN001-2BB186)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850 (850 watts)
Operating System: Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (Build 23631.3155)
Nvidia Drivers Version: 551.61
Daz Studio Version: 4.22.0.15 Pro Edition (64-bit)
Secondary computer system configuration:
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K
GPU: ASUS GTX 1070 replaced by Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super
System Memory: 32GB (DDR3-2400 / PC3-19200) [4x Kingstion 8GB modules]
OS Drive: Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB
Asset Drive: Seagate 4TB (ST4000DM004-2CV104)
Power Supply: Corsair CS750M (750 watts)
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 (Build 19045.4046)
Nvidia Drivers Version: 551.61
Daz Studio Version: 4.21.0.15 Pro Edition (64-bit)
1. My question at the top of this posting is due to my consideration of putting a RTX 4060 Ti 16GB in my secondary computer so I can give it rendering jobs created by main computer without having to worry if the scene will fit in the VRAM. Since my GTX 1070 and RTX 2070 Super both had 8GB VRAM, I have been doing this and it worked for my requirements. Relegating my main computer to secondary and building a new main computer is not a consideration at this time.
2. Using the test scene "RayDAnt_DS_Iray_Benchmark_2019A_r4.duf" ( https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1#Section 6.1 ) here are my benchmarks with each graphics card.
Main computer test results:
GTX 1070 at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 12 minutes 44.92 seconds
RTX 2070 Super at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 5 minutes 25.98 seconds
RTX 4060 Ti at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 3 minutes 35.72 seconds
RTX 4080 Super at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 1 minutes 36.58 seconds
************************************
RTX 2070 Super at 1800px square - Total Rendering Time: 21 minutes 36.88 seconds
RTX 4080 Super at 1800px square - Total Rendering Time: 6 minutes 17.49 seconds
RTX 4080 Super at 10,000px square - Total Rendering Time: 3 hours 7 minutes 33.27 seconds
(When I performed this test a while back with my RTX 2070 Super at 10K square, it took about 9 hours and 50 minutes)
Secondary computer test results:
GTX 1070 at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 12 minutes 44.97 seconds
RTX 2070 at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 6 minutes 27.27 seconds
RTX 4060 Ti at 900px square - Total Rendering Time: 4 minutes 30.68 seconds
3. The difference in rendering time between main and secondary computer with the RTX 2070 Super was only 1 minute. That is what made me consider placing a RTX 4060 Ti 16GB in the old computer to extend its life and give me a no fuss way to render (whistle) while I work. :-)
4. Installing the RTX 4080 Super was not as much fun in my mid-size tower case. I had to bend the end of the anti-sag bracket so it would fit. Please view the attached pictures for more information.
5. LAST POINT (I thought of when I woke up this morning) if you will have to "modify" the mounting bracket like I did, then test the graphics card FIRST (before modification) just in case your card is bad. I was lucky, but if my card had been bad it might have complicated tthings trying to return the card.
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Comments
....I love the title.of this thread.
Bus speed is less of an issue for Iray, since textures and geometry are only loaded to the GPU once, whereas in games the GPU is constantly processing new information and would thus be more subject to bus speed.
I'm running a GTX 1070 on an old Asrock P5B-DE (released almost 15 years ago), with PCIe 1.1, Core2 Quad Q6600 (very first Intel quad core) CPU and 8 GB DDR2 RAM. Test scene renders in 13 minutes 11.84 seconds, about 27 seconds slower than on your system. DS 4.22.0.15, NVidia driver 551.23.
I hope other forum members will post their upgrade experiences and lessons to this thread as time goes along so we can all have a place where hardware decisions related to DAZ Studio can be shared and maybe make it a little easier to find the caveats and the buyer be aware notes that help when deciding what to do about your upgrade.
I realize many threads have been made because people don't know where to ask their specific hardware question and that makes it really hard for others find the information they want. Please do not post aside comments here.
It is my hope to have a thread that really discusses DAZ related hardware recommendations and pitfalls.
1. Thanks for the comments. So I will infer from this IF I want to spend money on a RTX 4060 Ti 16GB to buy me another year or so of life from tthe i7-4790K, then I should be good to go.
2. If anyone wants to know more about my DAZ Studio experience with tthe new monitor and card, then post it here. :-)
3. To kyoto kid. I worked as a Canadian product manager at Sharp Electronics and one of my Canadian born co-workers had worked in Tokyo for a few years. He was so taken with the culture (fluent in Japanese) that he had recorded his favorite Japanese TV shows. When he translated show names for me they were so humorous that it always stuck with me. I thought if I give the thread an unsual name it might be easier for people to find it in the future.
A small impact on load to graphics card and write results out to external storage is all, but while it's there on the card no impact.
In general, if one has an RTX GPU with 12GB's of VRAM (or more), three times more RAM (min 32GB's) and powerful enough quality PSU to take the load, the rest can be almost whatever.
If one gets addicted, adding 4-8TB external USB drives for the content is a good idea.
If one wants to build a reliable work horse and isn't into squeezing the most FPS in some shooter, I have found best to start with hardware designed/made for professional/semi pro use, it may be slower on the 1/4-mile than the latest and the greatest, but it doesn't have to stop at the end of the strip, it just keeps on going, towing the moon while carrying what's left of the Titanic.
My current setup is Asus X99 motherboard with an i7-5820K, 64GB's of RAM, RTX 3060 12GB, 6 internal SSD's, 7 external USB HD's (powered by the PSU) running on a 750W PSU.
I have parts already for my next rig (i9+X299), but no hurry to set it up as the current one doesn't feel slow or sluggish either, I just wanted to buy particular components before they were taken off the market
Trusting ASUS for motherboard and GPU, Kingston for RAM and SSD's and Seagate for external drives.
Nice. I'm planning on upgrading to a Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Geforce 4060 16gb and 64 gb ram. maybe not as powerful as your set up but better then the ryzen 5 2400/gefore 1650 6gb/16gb ram I have now.
Would a RTX 4060 works with such an old motherboard ?
I have a 4790k laying around, sitting unused on its Asus Z97A motherboard, with only the integrated GPU (I gave my GPU to my brother when his own GPU died at the height of the GPU crazed prices time a year or two ago) and if a modern GPU works on it, it would save me some money to get such a GPU while keeping the motherboard and the CPU (I would need to find more RAM too, I only have 8GB on it I think, but I suppose it's easier to find cheap second hand RAM that cheap second hand 12 GB+ GPU…).
As was mentioned in the previous posts by everyone the answer is yes, BUT there are caveats. You will need a sufficiently powerful/stable enough power supply. You can see in my secondary sytem, above, I have a Corsair CS750M (750 watts). I would recommend a 750 WATT minimum with at least 80 Plus Gold certification. However you may need a larger power supply depending on what devices are in your computer. Remember you want some power supply overage (but don't over do it) so you are not always running your power supply at the top end of performance which keeps it cooler and prolongs its life.
Generally more RAM is better, so if your motherboard lets you go above 32GB then I would recommend that. Try to make sure all your RAM is the same spec, if not the same brand. You will notice in my main computer I have 2 pairs of RAM (Corsair and G.Skill) because I bought them a few weeks apart and a second set of Corsairs was not available. That system is very stable even witrh different brand of RAM, but the same specifications.
Now concerning the PCI-E bus (the slot you insert the graphics card into), the Intel chipset Z97 is only PCI-E 3.0 and the RTX 4060 is PCI-E 4.0. What do you sacrifice by putting the latest graphics card in your prehistoric i7 4790K? Gaming speed and 3D scene loading time prior to actual rendering in programs like DAZ Studio!
The problem is games are always loading new things to the graphics card and your data transfer rate to the card is throttled down to PCI-E 3.0 performance. Therefore I would not put that card in your old system if you are going to play games above 1080p and even there you might have turn down the dials on settings in the game. I am talking about games that are best with pretty graphics like Cyberpunk.
As for DAZ Studio, a rule of thumb I have read in many places on these forums is to have 3 times the amount of graphics card VRAM for your computer system RAM. So in my case the ideal would be 48GB of computer system RAM for my 16GB graphics card. However, ideally I would probably want even more RAM, say 64GB RAM because I also have other memory hog progams running in the background (e.g. photo-editing software, and 500 web browser tabs, kidding I never run more that 499 tabs). However, my motherboard maximum is 32GB. Basically I would not use this solution as a way to run DAZ Studio for scene development or as my latest 3D games computer. It can do it all but it is not taking advantage of all the graphics card's performance. Once the DAZ scene is loaded into the RTX 4060 and I leave the computer alone and I don't run other apps on that computer, then in theory, it should perform similar to putting that card in my main computer which has 64GB RAM and PCI-E 4.0.
In my original post, I explained that my primary use for the secondary computer is to sit there and grind away at rendering scenes and I wanted to just prepare the scene on my main computer then copy the scene DUF file to the secondary computer through remote desktop and let the secondary computer take however long it needs to render the scene while I keep working on main computer creating master works of art to rival any AI generated masterpieces (note to self: insert self-depricating humour here). Spending all that money on the RTX 4060 Ti 16GB may be worth it to me for my workflow and to avoid buying a new computer as my main computer for another 12 to 18 months.
I hope that brief but spectacular answer helps you. :-)
....sounds pretty close to same upgrade I'm doing but which also includes a new MB (my current one is an old ASUS P6T X58), an M2 SSD for the boot drive, and more capable CPU cooler. I already have the 3060 12 GBGPU but the current MB's BVIOS refuses ti see it.so only get the standard VGA feed. (had to go back tothe old Titan-X)
Also looking at getting a "real" IBM Model M keyboard,. Had enough of these cheap ones where all the letters and numbers wear off in a few months.
I am getting the RTX 4060 TI 16GB today and I will install on my secondary system. So we will find out if the works.
Standby for installation update. All systems are nominal we have go for countdown.
Upgrade of secondary computer complete. RTX 4060 Ti transplant was a success and the patient is doing fine. Although keeps saying I need more power!
I have updated the first post in this thread to include the GTX 1070 and RTX 4060 Ti render times.
I did an upgrade a week ago, because of limited VRAM on my old graphics card and thus the render was done too often with only the CPU instead of the GPU.
Before the upgrade it was
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700
Mainboard: MSI B550M
GPU: RTX 2070 Super
RAM: 2 x 16 GB G.skill DDR4-3200
I kept the mainboard with a BIOS update to the latest version, then installed
CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X (cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock 4)
GPU: RTX 4090
RAM: additionally 2 x 16 GB G.skill DDR4-3200 (now 64 GB)
PSU: 1000 W beQuiet!
With my old hardware the same render scene took around 2 hours 15 mins for 900 iterations, after the upgrade it took 5 mins for 900 iterations, so it feels like a relevation ;-)
TO: pbergmann_c6b73c8588
I also had the "dump to CPU" rendering situation with only 8GB VRAM. I had to do a lot of scene optimization and render to layers to assemble in Affinity Graphics Suite to avoid it.
When I started this upgrade process, I considered the RTX 4090 since I don't believe the RTX 5000 series will be a 50% increase in performance or VRAM. The size of the RTX 6000 series may require a separate computer case just to house the card and its own 1600 WATT power supply. Just kidding .... I hope?!?!?
But here in the Great White North the RTX 4090 starts at $2600 CAD (before tax). Buying the RTX 4080 Super, which was only $250 more than the RTX 4070 Super Ti, and then buying the RTX 4060 Ti allowed me to have both my computers render optimized scenes within 16GB VRAM for the combined price of $2000 CAD (before tax).
I build my scenes on the RTX 4080 Super system, this allows the RTX 4060 Ti system can take the time it needs to render. Now, I am even considering rendering brief animations (as image series) insteads of just stills.
Congrats on your upgrade and thank you for sharing your upgrade experience.
To: hjake
I paid around 1850 € for my Palit RTX 4090 incl. tax, so I guess nearly the same as in Canada but including tax (19%).
On the other hand we have very high electricity prices here in Germany because of stupid EU regulations called "Merit order" haha....
Anyway it was worth it ;-)
I bet it is worth it and should be the speed king for some time to come. Well atleast now you don't have to pay for home heating with the system rendering
My price would 2010 Euros with tax for Ontario.
I finally got my upgrades! I am now running a Ryzen 7 5600X3D,A Geforce 4060 ti with 16gb Vram and 32GB of ram. not as impressive as some of your builds but it's better then what I had and I still plan to add a SSD and another 32GB ram.
... ..looks good. Always design with with expandibility in mind. I would definitley give the memory expansion the next priority.
Thanks. I was able to render the test scene in under 5 minutes. still not sure how good that is since I'm not sue what my render setting are. As for my next upgrades I'm probaly going to get the SSD to speed up load times on my games. right now it can take almost 10 minutes to fully load Sea of Theives
Fabe, thank you for contributing your super fun happy computer upgrade..
If you used the test scene "RayDAnt_DS_Iray_Benchmark_2019A_r4.duf" ( https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1#Section 6.1 ), then we have some informative benchmarks for the RTX 4060 Ti 16GB VRAM graphics card since my second computer is using a much older Intel Core i7-4790K with 32GB RAM. My total rendering time: 4 minutes 30.68 seconds at 900px square. If you used the test scene "as is" then we should have identical render settings and objects/lighting in our tests. For a single render a one to five minute difference in render time is probably not an issue, but seconds count if you plan to render 30 frames per second of animation.
I could not find your processor to compare to mine for benchmark but this is a close comparison:
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-5600X3D-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/m2142471vs2384
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-5800X3D/2384vsm1817839
https://www.techspot.com/review/2727-ryzen-5600x3d-vs-ryzen-5800x3d/
Please also let us know how you like your upgrade a month from now, after the new computer hyper-excitement has been calmed slightly.
As people add their upgrade experiences here it creates a source for people thinking about their computer upgrade and also how big a difference would be in getting the latest greatest graphics card or computer for DAZ Studio.
Recently, a friend was asking about buying the best graphics card and using it with Blender and DAZ Studio. I think these 2 videos graphically explain what is involved in modern 3D rendering and what current graphics cards look like. Understanding these factors will help inform which computer and graphic card you should buy.
How does Ray Tracing Work in Video Games and Movies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlehM5kNSk
How do Graphics Cards Work? Exploring GPU Architecture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Z4oGN89MU
Recently i upgraded from a corei5 (9th gen i thing) 16GB ram and RTX 2060 mobile (6GB). When i got that i was happy at first because i t was a huge leap from an old laptop with discrete nvidia that barely had a few cuda cores, But soon greew disapointed, heat and noice became a problem and that on top of other shcedulle problem did let me much will to play with 3D.
I recently pull the trigger and after over 15 years i had a desktop once again. Could not afford what i wanted (RTX 4070 TI Super 16GB and AM5 cpu. But managed a pasable AM4 5600X 32GB RAM (another 32 on the way) and RTX 3060 12GB. Using both CPU and GPU, test scene render took me 4 minutes 34 seconds. Statistics:
I haven't done much yet. But in general i'm very happy so far. I know is previous generation of an also not new one, maybe in a year when i finish paying for this PC the rtx 50XX line have something interesting Price/Performace/Power.
That is a good system. if you still have the old computer considering following my example and send long renders to the old system and work on the new system. It means less downtime.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
So I added 2 Samsung 990 Pro NVMe M.2 4TB drives to my system for the C & D drives. On the D drive I enabled Bitlocker hardware encryption with no loss in performance. Most excellent.
I have to avoid blinking when I start DAZ Studio or i could miss seeing the start-up image. Only kidding, but it is MUCH faster/responsive running DS.
I also tried moving my DAZ content library from an internal Seagate Barracuda 5600RPM 4TB HDD to a Crucial X9 4TB external SDD on a standard USB 3.0 port. I noticed no difference for content load time into my DAZ Studio scene. I will post in Nuts and Bolts forum to see if I am doing something wrong.