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Tutorial: Making TriAx Figures from Old Parametric Characters

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  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89
    edited December 2023

    Hi @richardandtracy,

    Thank-you for the tutorial.  I had some ideas, but your tutorial was the step-by-step instructions I needed to TriaAx'ed my V4 with a G8F clone, a G3F clone to follow.  As you mentioned in the steps, the skirt area between the legs on the clone seems to pose badly, both V4 and G8F outfits.  The meshes seem to "break" there.  Why is that, and can I improve it?

    Thanks again Richard, and for all your freebies as well,
    -b

    Post edited by Grafitaleblu on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    Indeed the meshes do seem to break between the legs for skirts and dresses. I think the reason is that the automatically applied weight map weights to the clothing as the clothing is applied are very sharply divided between left and right legs. So, the skirt around the right leg has 100% weighting right from the Centreline all the way round the right leg. And the facet one facet to the left of the Centreline has a 0% weighting for right leg moves. This means the facet to the right of the Centreline moves with the leg, and the one next to it doesn't. Making a big step discontinuity. It'd be much better if we could work out how to create a clothing template like the one that's supplied for G9 dress fitting and get a smooth graduation from the centre of the left leg where it's 0% weighting to the centre of the right leg where it's 100%. At the moment I don't know how to do that, sorry. But I plan on finding out eventually. Regards, Richard
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    Didn't answer on how to fix it once it's happened. I have NOT done it, but I think you need to hand alter the weight mapping of the dress/skirt and then save the modified item as a new library asset in the same way as the character. As I said, I've not done it, so am not sure I'm right. I need to experiment, but life is intervening at the moment. Regards, Richard.
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    Glad you like the freebies, they are a creative outlet that stops me going any more daft than usual. Do enjoy being able to do it when I can, and if other people find them useful it's fantastic. Regards, Richard.
  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,650

    I think that this process might work on your skirt problem. In my search for answers to my spike problem I discovered and used Mada's videos to help me use the weight-map tool. https://www.youtube.com/@MadadeLeeuw/videos The below comment came from my art studio thread here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/194526/lj-studios-art-work-and-tips and deals with spikes you can get from using the tri-axe version of a garment while bending the figure. There is another entry talking futher about fitting clothing but not using auto-fit. I did this work not using a clone. I also left V2 alone and did not convert her to weight map. The garment that she is wearing is Tri-axe. There were reasons for not weight mapping Vicky. DAZ has a hard time correctly interpertating Poser morph files and Tri-axe can remove details in the mesh that you want to keep. So using cross dresser was my solution but I have learned some things working on Posette and her morphs that I would like to try with your tut Richard and I think maybe I can get that detail back. After Christmas, though. 

    Richard, if you wish you can take this snipette and add it to your tut. I do not mind. Make changes rearrange what ever is needed to make it better. You can also look through my thread for other things that might be worth something and add to the tutorial if you want. Use and abuse my friend. So here you go.

    How to Fit Clothing when Spikes Show Up After Posing

    This was a recent find for me. The Millineum Catwoman. After some discussion with Redfern I found out that she was called Mia. So as normal for my entries in this thread I have listed the stuff I used. I do however have a tip. Mia's bodysuit was orginally made for Furrette. I decided that I wanted a better fit to Victoria's body so I converted the clothing using Crossdresser by EvilInnocense. I wasn't quite happy with the fit so I added a smoother but that put to much distortion in the suit. So I decided to try to convert it to a weight mapped figure. When I did that every pose I used with the suit gave me spikes. They were on the arms and legs. I have seen this happen before and I finally did some research and found out 1 of the reasons for this occuring. Bottom line DAZ and Poser use different ways in dealing with how mesh is positioned at the joints. So there is a lot of leaway for DAZ to confuse a poor mesh and make spikes happen. Here is what I did to fix this issue when it happens to be a weight map issue.

    Instructions:
    1. Convert garment to Tri-Axe weight mapping.
    2. Bend the garment and note where the spikes are created. You should be able to tell which bend direction causes the problem for what bone. So for the bodysuit it was the Z bend in the right and left shoulder bones.
    3. On the Tool Settings Tab, select the Node Weight Map Brush Tool
    4. In the Scene tab select the(one of) bone(s) where the spike or spikes occurred. In my case I had multiple places that needed attention so this process become iterative from this point on.
    5. In the viewport right click and select the Brush Mode->Paint Brush. You will see two circles a green inside a red appear in the Viewport when you move the mouse over the garment.
    6. Select the Rotation map for the previously identified bend. In my example it is the Z Rotation map that was not performing like it should, i.e. spiky. Upon selection you should see on the garment the area which the map identifies as having influence. Represented by red, blue and/or yellow fields of color. It is now, that you should be able to see some areas where the garment colors show through.
    7. With the left button held down move the mouse over these areas to turn them red.
    8. Rotate the bone within the Parameter tab or the pose wheel in the upper left corner of the view port. If you still see deformation then pass the mouse over the area again.
    9. You have fixed your problem. If you want to keep this version of the garment and not have to make these fixes each time you use it. I would highly recommend saving it out as a figure.

     

     

    Title: Join the Space Force Now
    Rendered in iRay. Postwork in Gimp to add the text and sig.
    An imaginary recruitment poster for the US Space Force. Featuring one of their own Lt. Mia Tabby. Lt. Mia as she is called, is a combination of Victoria 2 body and Millineum Cat. A creature created by Little_Dragon with the help of Redfern and others. The poster behind her is from the JPL site. Lt. Mia is based loosly on Redfern's Mzzkiti, both being service girls and all. I want to thank Redfern for all of his information about this character, where she came from, who was involved. I love history.

    So here she is:

    Freebies:
    Character:Lt. Mia:Actor              * Millennium Catwoman v1.2 by Little_Dragon.
    Character:Lt. Mia:Tail                   Bushy Tail 2 by Little_Dragon.
    Character:Lt. Mia:Texture          * MilCatwoman Red Tabby Texture by Little_Dragon.
    Clothing: Jewelry: Earrings       * Ankh Earrings for Poser by Chris Cox.
    Clothing:Bodysuit and Vest         Furrette SPF Uniform by Little_Dragon.
    Clothing:Jewery:Ring               * Shardz Elven Ring for V3 by Shardz.
    Environment:Background           Visions of the Future - Venus by Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
    Hair                                             Little_Dragon's Ziggy Hair for Furrette 2.0 by Little_Dragon.
    Pose:Lt. Mia                               Inspired by Louis Royo by Schlabber.
    Prop:Lt. Mia:Weapon               * Angry Hornet Raygun by Archeopterix.
    Shader: Lt. Mia:Claws             * Iray car related shader presets 'megapack' by Tom2099.
    Shader: Suit: Jewelry: Gold    * jewelry_iray_shaders by AllenArt LaurieA.
    Shaders:Clothing                    * Iray Leather Shaders by Tom2099.
    Paid fors:
    Character Base:Lt. Mia:Head       * Millennium Cat by DAZ 3D.
    Character:Lt. Mia:Claws              # Cat Character (w/ poseable nails) by DAZ 3D.
    Character:Lt. Mia:Texture           # Classic Cats Combo by LaurieS Lisa's Botanicals.
    Clothing:Conversion                   * CrossDresser V2 by EvilInnocense.
    No Counts:
    Character Base:Lt. Mia:Body      # Victoria 2.0 by DAZ 3D.
    Clothing:Bib                                # RDNA Roma by Traveler.
    Environment:Lighting                 # FWSA Soft Light Probes by Fred Winkler Art Sabby.

    * - Requires free registration
    # - No longer legally available

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    Thank you for taking the time to explain this DollyGirl. I will experiment, but life has caught up with and overtaken my free time just recently, so I probably can't experiment much in the next couple of weeks. Regards, Richard.
  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,650

    Understand Richard. Me too. RL has encroached on my play time. I have Christmas gifts to prepare. In fact that is what I am doing now. Just took a break.

  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    richardandtracy said:

    Indeed the meshes do seem to break between the legs for skirts and dresses. I think the reason is that the automatically applied weight map weights to the clothing as the clothing is applied are very sharply divided between left and right legs. So, the skirt around the right leg has 100% weighting right from the Centreline all the way round the right leg. And the facet one facet to the left of the Centreline has a 0% weighting for right leg moves. This means the facet to the right of the Centreline moves with the leg, and the one next to it doesn't. Making a big step discontinuity. It'd be much better if we could work out how to create a clothing template like the one that's supplied for G9 dress fitting and get a smooth graduation from the centre of the left leg where it's 0% weighting to the centre of the right leg where it's 100%. At the moment I don't know how to do that, sorry. But I plan on finding out eventually. Regards, Richard

    Thank-you for your quick response.  Would the automatically-applied-weight-map a third weight map, different than the outfit weight map and the model weight map?  I am trying to understand daz3d world view if you will.

    Thank-you again Richard,
    -b

  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    richardandtracy said:

    Didn't answer on how to fix it once it's happened. I have NOT done it, but I think you need to hand alter the weight mapping of the dress/skirt and then save the modified item as a new library asset in the same way as the character. As I said, I've not done it, so am not sure I'm right. I need to experiment, but life is intervening at the moment. Regards, Richard.

    Assuming the weight mapping of the outfit works perfectly on the model it was designed for.  Is the outfit "breaking-up" because the clone is "weighted" differently than the intended model?

    Thank-you Richard,
    -b

  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    richardandtracy said:

    Glad you like the freebies, they are a creative outlet that stops me going any more daft than usual. Do enjoy being able to do it when I can, and if other people find them useful it's fantastic. Regards, Richard.

    Genesis 8 was around when I first started with DS, but I find the V4 and its generation have a lot of character.  I find this tutorial, and your pose converter freebies tremendously useful.

    Thank-you for being so generous with your work and expertise,
    -b

  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    Thank-you @dollygirl, for your tip and video reference.  I have read your post 2x already, and will likely read it many times more, trying to work out "spikes."

    -b

  • CriosCrios Posts: 2,694

    Just for info, but this tutorial can work also on non-Daz figures?

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123

    Grafitaleblu said:

    richardandtracy said:

    Indeed the meshes do seem to break between the legs for skirts and dresses. I think the reason is that the automatically applied weight map weights to the clothing as the clothing is applied are very sharply divided between left and right legs. So, the skirt around the right leg has 100% weighting right from the Centreline all the way round the right leg. And the facet one facet to the left of the Centreline has a 0% weighting for right leg moves. This means the facet to the right of the Centreline moves with the leg, and the one next to it doesn't. Making a big step discontinuity. It'd be much better if we could work out how to create a clothing template like the one that's supplied for G9 dress fitting and get a smooth graduation from the centre of the left leg where it's 0% weighting to the centre of the right leg where it's 100%. At the moment I don't know how to do that, sorry. But I plan on finding out eventually. Regards, Richard

    Thank-you for your quick response.  Would the automatically-applied-weight-map a third weight map, different than the outfit weight map and the model weight map?  I am trying to understand daz3d world view if you will.

    Thank-you again Richard,
    -b

    The automatically applied weight map is based on the brand new TriAx figure that you've created, not on the weight maps (if present) of the clothing. For example, you have a a TriAx V4 character and you want to put V4 clothing on the character. But V4 clothing is all parametric, so DS starts from scratch using the V4 TriAx figure as the source for creating new boles & weight maps. This process is effectively the same as the Transfer Utility that creates mapping & bones in garments for obj models & that sort of thing. To be able to make it into a dress or something similar ideally there would be a template garment hidden as part of the character (such as there is in G9) which tells DS a different type of weight mapping compared to the default one that the user can select when transferring the garment.

    And this is where my lack of complete knowledge stumps me. I will learn & publish it. I had an idea it was similar to DollyGirl's suggested method, but I need to work it through myself, walk blindly into any pitfalls etc first and be confident of doing it myself.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123

    Crios said:

    Just for info, but this tutorial can work also on non-Daz figures?

    Once you have TriAx'd the figure, the non-DS figure has become a DAZ Studio native figure. So, yes. It just won't have all the features of [say] G9, and you have to go through the process yourself of creating the extra features (morphs, autofit clones etc)

    Regards,

    Richard.

     

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    edited December 2023
    Grafitaleblu said:

    ...

    Thank-you for being so generous with your work and expertise,
    -b

    I have been on the recieving end of the generosity of so many others, how could I not try to return the favour with the little bits I'm able to do? Wish I could do more than I can.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    richardandtracy said:

    Grafitaleblu said:

    richardandtracy said:

    Indeed the meshes do seem to break between the legs for skirts and dresses. I think the reason is that the automatically applied weight map weights to the clothing as the clothing is applied are very sharply divided between left and right legs. So, the skirt around the right leg has 100% weighting right from the Centreline all the way round the right leg. And the facet one facet to the left of the Centreline has a 0% weighting for right leg moves. This means the facet to the right of the Centreline moves with the leg, and the one next to it doesn't. Making a big step discontinuity. It'd be much better if we could work out how to create a clothing template like the one that's supplied for G9 dress fitting and get a smooth graduation from the centre of the left leg where it's 0% weighting to the centre of the right leg where it's 100%. At the moment I don't know how to do that, sorry. But I plan on finding out eventually. Regards, Richard

    Thank-you for your quick response.  Would the automatically-applied-weight-map a third weight map, different than the outfit weight map and the model weight map?  I am trying to understand daz3d world view if you will.

    Thank-you again Richard,
    -b

    The automatically applied weight map is based on the brand new TriAx figure that you've created, not on the weight maps (if present) of the clothing. For example, you have a a TriAx V4 character and you want to put V4 clothing on the character. But V4 clothing is all parametric, so DS starts from scratch using the V4 TriAx figure as the source for creating new boles & weight maps. This process is effectively the same as the Transfer Utility that creates mapping & bones in garments for obj models & that sort of thing. To be able to make it into a dress or something similar ideally there would be a template garment hidden as part of the character (such as there is in G9) which tells DS a different type of weight mapping compared to the default one that the user can select when transferring the garment.

    And this is where my lack of complete knowledge stumps me. I will learn & publish it. I had an idea it was similar to DollyGirl's suggested method, but I need to work it through myself, walk blindly into any pitfalls etc first and be confident of doing it myself.

    Regards,

    Richard

    I think see where the gap/hiccup is.  I look forward to your future discoveries.

    Thank-you Richard,
    -b

  • GrafitalebluGrafitaleblu Posts: 89

    richardandtracy said:

    Grafitaleblu said:

    ...

    Thank-you for being so generous with your work and expertise,
    -b

    I have been on the recieving end of the generosity of so many others, how could I not try to return the favour with the little bits I'm able to do? Wish I could do more than I can.

    Regards,

    Richard

    You are a wonderfully charitable person on these forums.

    Happy Holidays Richard,
    -b

  • GreymomGreymom Posts: 1,104

    Thanks very much for all the hard work and great information, Richard!  I have so many great characters and outifts I hope to use!

    -Greymom

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,123
    It would be great to see if you update some of your parametric characters, and possibly reach the point where it's difficult to see the age of the models. Regards, Richard.
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