Clothing from GeoShells?
marble
Posts: 7,498
Can anyone point me to a tutorial describing how to turn an exported Geoshell into an item of clothing? I'm talking Blender, not ZBrush or anything too sophisticated (expensive). I think I have a general idea but the details are vague in my mind - such as how to create normal maps and how to texture/UV-map. Also rigging and, if necessary, dForce. A YouTube tutorial would be handy but I have not been able to find one.
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Hmnpf. I was under the impression that GeoShells are "Virtual Geometry" and wouldn't work like that.
Instead, we use the Mesh Offset to determine how far away the shell is and Shell properties to determine which parts of the shell will be visible - either by part or by surface or both. Then we use surfaces to provide the look and sometimes also the shape.
Example, I bought one that's no longer available in the store that turns Genesis 8 Female's body into that of a cyborg. The normal map actually cuts away, making the body deeper than the skin under it. I was amazed! That was my first experience with a geoShell
Since the mapping was the same as Genesis 8 Female, I was able to use the maps directly on the figure for use in Carrara, which is this
you use morphs on the base figure to shape it and since we plebeian users cannot do HD Morphs it's really only useful for DAZ Published/Premier Artists
at best we can paint second skins with displacement that can be offset on Geometry Shells instead of using LIE
one could maybe create subdivided Geografted clothing even a bodysuit, certainly it already exists especially as footwear (and I hate it)
I assume you mean her underwear? The rest of your advice is exactly how I imagined it to be except that I want to manipulate the mesh a little more so that it doesn't, for example, disappear into the cracks and creases of the G8 figure (I don't have any G9 characters). -- [EDIT] Just noticed that you show and example of this as your NDLC shape preset. -- Also, did you need to create a UV map or did you use the original maps from the DAZ figure?
So I guess I would need to import it back and rig it somehow in DAZ Studio? I have a lot of things running through my mind that I've read here and seen in various tutorials but I was hoping for some kind of definitive workflow. I've seen clothing sets on other sites which look like they have just been painted on the body but which are sold as separate clothing items.
Well, you're painting onto an export of the actual figure. So the only things to "Import" are the texture maps you create.
GeoShells don't have any physical geometry. It's a projected shell of the exact model it's applied to.
So if you want to manipulate the shape, you must do that via the surfaces or the actual actor figure itself.
A huge benefit to be gained is that the GeoShell can accept entirely different UV Mapping than the applied-to figure.
If you're looking for a mesh to manipulate and send back into Daz Studio and apply to your figure, you're talking a clothing item or geograft.
Using a GeoShell, you could use Mesh Offset to add a bit of distance between it and the figure. To add the wrinkles, you'd need a normal or displacement map. If you want the straps to stand off that little extra due to weight stretch, you'd need to do that via displacement as well - making a GeoShell Not a good solution for such a garment. When the straps shouldn't stand off, they'd still stand off, etc.,
The Geoshell will Always follow the shape of the figure because it is the figure.
They give us the advantage of adding additional surfaces without adding the weight of more geometry. So this isn't something wrong with the GeoShell, it's just that they are not meant to be a replacement for modeled clothing, for example.
That said, trying to keep the GeoShell from following the creases of the joint bends of the figure and all of the corrective and projection morphs that may be firing, you'd need to displace it and it likely would not give expected results for every situation. The map for the base pose might look good for the base pose, but as soon as a JCM fires, strange things will start to happen.
Right, so now I'm confused. I did think that geoshells are actual geometry so that is a big misconception on my part. I'm not a modeller but the more I use Blender for making morphs, the more I wonder how I could extend that into making actual clothes or props. I thought that something tight fitting based on the figure shape itself might be an easy starter project but it looks like I was wrong about that too.
a good way to start making clothing is to grab a cylinder and use soft select which I believe is called proportional editing in Blender to fit it to the shape of the figure
delete, subdivide, extrude faces as needed to create what you want
Thanks, Wendy. Yes, I've seen tutorials like that. I was thinking more along the lines of starting with something that is the identical shape to the character and using the sculpt tools (which is what I prefer for making morphs). For details I was thinking either displacement or normal maps - I mean sculpting the details - folds, wrinkles, etc., - and then baking to a normal map.
Anyhow, I'm away from my desktop PC for a few days now so I'll spend some of the time looking for tutorials.
Yes, it's tricky... Geoshell has 'geometry' indeed but it's a sort of derivative dummy facet of its parent, so that's why it can collide with other figures / objects. It has no mesh of its own so there's no way to create morphs on it, while it just derives mesh resolution and SubD from the figure. If we need 'morphs on it', we create morphs on the figure.
Well, technically a geoshell can be sculpted in Blender but normally we just use Genesis figure to do so (as well as painting / texturizing), as FenixPhoenix mentioned. We may use derivative UV set from the figure on the geoshell garments or create unique UV set for them.
So using the figure itself, how to achieve the slight distance from the surface for a clothing item? Use a push modifier before export or is there a better way in Blender?
Not in that way. Actually geoshells adopt all the UV sets from the figure, so we just need to create texture maps for them rather than 'on them'. The normal workflow is -
- export Genesis figure to Blender or Pt, etc., you paint texture on it and bake the maps, or you create texture maps based on the UV templates (from Genesis figure or unique ones you made) in Photoshop or Gimp, etc.
- Load a geoshell on Genesis figure
- Assign texture maps to the corresponding surfaces of the geoshell
- Save the geoshell as a Wearable preset, as well as Material presets if needed
Apologies, I meant underwear, indeed. I was typing on my phone, and autocorrect does whatever it wants lol. What I did for the crack was ask Nathy to do a morph on the figure to smooth that out. Then I saved all of that as a wearable preset that would apply the smooth glutes morphs to the figure and the geoshell textured-like underwear.
By the way, Nathy has a product that provides these types of morphs (helpful to smooth things for geoshell type of clothing): https://www.daz3d.com/nd-extra-morphs-breasts-and-glutes-for-genesis-9
At last the light is beginning to dawn on me. So that's where the geoshell comes in - it is not exported to Blender but is used to take the maps created in Blender. I still thought that something had to have an actual mesh to be saved as a figure/prop or wearable so my confusion is still not quite resolved.
So now the next question: would that saved wearable conform to any charater shape (I have my own character creations in all shapes and szes)? Or do I Ineed to do something to transfer rigging and/or FBM/JCMs, etc? Oh, and how would I add further morphs as I assume the wearable geoshell can't be edited in Blender?
You don't need to do anythying to the geoshell in terms of morphing or shaping... as I mentioned above, a geoshell is a dummy facet geometry fitting on the figure, just like a 'second skin', so it follows figure's shape change. Then you just need to make morphs on the figure if needed.
Thanks again. OK, so the wearable is a geoshell with texture maps and it behaves like any newly applied geoshell, right?
That's right !
BTW:
You can make a GeoShell a full geometry by sending it to zBrush and bringing it back with GoZ.
It works, but you loos all UV coordinates.
No can do - ZBrush is way beyond my pocket. If that works with Blender, then that is good to know.
the "geoshell" is the same geometry as the original mesh it is a projection of so I fail to see the point of that anyway
Yeah, I am still a bit confused about the nature of geoshells. If it isn't a mesh, how can it be exported? If it is, then why can't it be edited in Blender or Hexagon? There's some vital point that I have missed along the way.
It will lose grouping, it shouldn't lose UVs
it's a duplicated mesh of the original mesh offset
somewhere between instance and original
but unlike an instance it has it's own UV and surface options and can only be offset not translated
it adds to the actual polycount of the scene
I don't pretend to know the mechanics of it how DAZ Studio creates it only how it behaves, how it exports without rigging or the ability to inheret rigging
which as an iClone, Unreal and Carrara user I find infuriating
Well, as you mention those other apps, the confusion over Geo-shells (and also Geo-grafts) in my mind is what has put me off investing in or even trying them. My concern is that I use geografts (along with their associated geoshells) on many of my characters and any restriction on exporting them to another application makes that option a non-starter. I know that Thomas has done a lot of work to make Diffeomorphic include geografts (and, I presume, geoshells) but I'm not at the stage where I am ready to delve into doing in Blender what I do in DAZ Studio.
I've been offered software as a gift and a "pro" app like iClone has been tempting but I can't honestly see the benefit. Maybe Zbrush but I can't justify it as I can do all I need to do in Blender. I have no intention of going into sculpting full time.
I keep losing track of this thread, but I finally caught it while on my computer, so I'll be able to try and break down things in a more organized way. As others have explained, consider a Geoshell as an extra "layer" of skin atop your character.
You decide...
The Process:
I'm going to use G9 as an example.
the similar names are confusing you, a Geograft has absolutely NOTHING to do with a Geoshell
other than being based on the word Geometry
Geografts FBX export as rigged figures of one seamless mesh to most applications and can indeed be sculpted and of as many polygons as you wish with their own bones and rigging
so long as where they join the original figure matches exactly
where as a geoshell is IDENTICAL to the original mesh because it IS the original mesh duplicated and offset
this is why modelling, sculpting a geoshell is a meaningless concept
I'm not THAT confused, Wendy. I know that a GeoGraft is different. I was just commenting on the fact that they (GeoGrafts) often have associated GeoShells and there is some trepidation in my mind about exporting either to another app.
@FenixPhoenix thank you for your comprehensive workflow. That is exactly what my OP was about.
My pleasure. :)
Anytime I tell D/S to send a geoshell anything over to Hexagon, D/S crashes.
As far as I know, from years back, making clothing from mesh that is in essence the same mesh as the target figure is a no-no [if redistributing]. Aside from that, doesn't tend to work the best for clothing anyways.
There is somewhere in the store here a "Puppet" mesh which makes an excellent starter suit.
Requiring some modeling work, one can easily get a starter suit started with a program such as 3D Coat. Super skin tight, one has to loosen it abit and clean up some of the mesh to be symmetrical -- and of course design their clothing piece from it. Then uvmap it and make the surface materials. I just made one marble if you want it let me know.