ROG Fantasy Environment Blues (or rather Whites) Solved

nowefg

I bought the ROG Fantasy Home & Red Boar sets, at great sale prices, and they are all great looking sets for fantasy renders. Happy about that part of the purchase.

But so far I haven't been able to get anything but a completely washed out render of anything.

I anticipated the hassle of changing the over-complicated and not any better PBR shaders to the much easier to use and at least as good looking standard Iray shaders, but not this overblown lighting issue.

Not using any of the included FH or RB Lighting presets, just loading the props, converting PBR to standard Iray, and rendering with the Daz default HDRI. Total white out every time. I can't figure what's causing the problem, since the Daz default HDRI is so basic. There's nothing apparent set to cause this issue. 

Any suggestions?

Also, anyone know of a converter product to simplify and speed up conversions from PBR to standard Iray? These ROG sets have many, many individual items making up a single scene, and finding them all in Scene tab and re-doing them in Surfaces is time consuming.

PerttiA

Which version of DS?

TimberWolf

If you're using Studio v4.15 or 4.16 (or earlier than 4.20) you'll find that the lighting will be completely blown out. Both of those sets were released before Nvidia 'fixed' how emissions from geometry with low opacity behaved and, consequently, from 4.20 onwards these rendered almost pitch black. An update fixed that but now the lighting in those assets is incompatible with older versions of Studio without some adjustment.

If this is the case, the authors released a set of files to revert the lighting (look for Strangefate's post):

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/373966/released-rog-red-crow-inn-commercial/p7

I don't understand what you're asking re. PBR shaders and Iray (Uber) shaders though. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you're doing (and that is very likely!) all the ROG sets use the default Uber shader on all the surfaces - which is a PBR (used in the generic sense) shader. PBRSkin is a separate (non-Uber) shader but unfortunately I can't figure out what you're trying to do here let alone how to assist.

nowefg

Thanks, TimberWolf, for the info & link!

I'll give it a try. I do run an earlier version. 4.15.0.86.

Re the PBR thing, it's not really important. Basically, when I look at Surfaces tab for Iray based props purchased a while ago, vehicles, buildings, whatever, I see a fairly short set of defalt Iray parameters that I'm familiar with and can quickly modify for the effect I want. In most cases, this means zeroing common elements like Normals or Bump, or changing Refraction settings, in order to speed up render times.

But newer "PBR" based props show a much longer list of Surfaces parameters, with different names for similar functions, and many parameters that I don't know even what their purpose is. The outstanding sympton is the PBR material props mostly load completely white; no textures applied. No idea why, and given the longer list of parameters, with different names than I'm familiar with, my solution is to select surfaces, apply the Daz default shader, and manually apply the textures. Time consuming, but effective, a sure, one time solution when saved as a mat preset. There are times when a product's geometry is interesting enough to be worth that more-than-minor hassle.

The ROG sets are a case in point; great lookimg geometry, but what exactly is a "4-layer Uber PBR MDL" shader, as used on the Fantasy Home Entrance product's West End Hallway-Cap-Wndow? I have no idea, but the list of parameters is quite long, and fiddly enough to waste whole days of render time trying to figure out. Do I, in my render case, need it? My short answer is no. I can achieve an excellent rapid render wth Daz default

I have seen comments in various threads that say a PBR shader is Iray, and yes of course it is. That said, though, "PBR" based products most times specify that distinction in promo info. These products don't use the Daz default Iray settings, and seem most times to load untextured. Since, for my purposes, and based on promo images, "PBR" based products don' t look any bettter than standard, Daz default Iray renders, and in my view often enough look worse, that is, less realistic, I mostly avoid products that make special mention of being PBR based.

I'm no render wizard. No doubt the newer developments in render technology have a place in the general 3d art scene; they're just outside my area of interest, at least for now.

 

nowefg

Just an update. I did install the fix for Red Crow Inn, and it renders perfectly. I hadn't actually tried that set prior to installing the fix though. Regardless, I'm amazed at how great the Inn set looks and renders. Fantastic work.

Hoping there's some similar fix for the Fantasy Home & Furniture sets...

TimberWolf

I think I've got a handle on what you're doing. I believe you're loading the base 3DL shader and then rendering the result in Iray. As an aside though, the fact that Iray Uber shaded props don't load with textures means something is very seriously wrong with your installation. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else mention this and it certainly shouldn't be the case. I think we've got one or two older hair models (Gen 3 perhaps) that load without a material but they are the exception and were actually shipped like that. It certainly isn't the default!

This may be of use to you then:

https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-iray-to-3delight-converter-and-merchant-resource

but.. have a read of this thread first to understand some of the limitations:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/437647/iray-to-3delight-converter

 

Also, if you pop over to this thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/465396/released-rog-fantasy-home-entrance-furniture-set-products-commercial

I think it would be worth asking Strangefate if they'd kindly upload the pre-4.20 .duf files for you as well. I'm sure there must be a fair few people who prefer using a pre 4.20 version of Studio and who have this set and I know Strangefate does read and reply to posts on the commercial thread. If you get no joy there, post another topic and I'll create some lighting props and presets from scratch that will work.

nowefg

Thanks, TimberWolf,

Well, it wouldn't be the first time something totally bizarre happened.  But no, I'm not loading 3dl anything; just the prop with it's PBR shader in place. It is most likely a version issue or something. Or it may be that, as with the 4.2 versions of the STF sets, everything is so washed out, it looks white to me.

But, on the STF issue, they've covered it, and now I can render Red Crow Inn, and the Fantasy Home sets perfectly. Really happy about that !

Thanks again for the thoughtful input and links.

nowefg

Hey TimberWolf,

Update on this PBR question/issue. I just re-purchased a set that I got and returned because of the render white outs.

It renders perfectly. Go figure?

Thinking about that particular original purchase, though, reminded me that about the time I got it, my rig was seriously acting up. Unbeknowst to me, my system SSD was failing and ultimately crashed.

I haven't really explored my PBR concerns since the replacement/rebuild, and I bet that failing drive was the root of the problem all along. Which doesn't explain why other renders seemed fine, but, hey, gremlin lives.

In any case, thanks again for considering my post. Nothing like a second opinion to help the rethinking process!

StrangeFate

nowefg said:

The ROG sets are a case in point; great lookimg geometry, but what exactly is a "4-layer Uber PBR MDL" shader, as used on the Fantasy Home Entrance product's West End Hallway-Cap-Wndow? I have no idea, but the list of parameters is quite long, and fiddly enough to waste whole days of render time trying to figure out. Do I, in my render case, need it? My short answer is no. I can achieve an excellent rapid render wth Daz default

The 4 layer shader lets you layer different textures on top to blend their content.
In the case of the Fantasy Home products, the interior and exterior walls use them to blend a basic tiling wall with wear effects and stains that are custom to each wall variant (door, no door, no window, etc)

Rather than doing a custom hires wall texture for each interior and exterior wall variant, which would consume a lot of VRAM, you can use the 4-layer shader to slap the custom stains and cracks through an alpha mask.
The result still looks custom, with stains or damage around windows and door frames, but you're using the same lower res textures every time, with a simple, custom alpha mask for each variant.

I believe I included regular wall materials too that can be applied to the different walls where all the effects are baked into the textures. They're higher res and will consume more VRAM, but they should be there for those who export and render the product outide of Daz.
 

nowefg

Strangefate said:

nowefg said:

The ROG sets are a case in point; great lookimg geometry, but what exactly is a "4-layer Uber PBR MDL" shader, as used on the Fantasy Home Entrance product's West End Hallway-Cap-Wndow? I have no idea, but the list of parameters is quite long, and fiddly enough to waste whole days of render time trying to figure out. Do I, in my render case, need it? My short answer is no. I can achieve an excellent rapid render wth Daz default

The 4 layer shader lets you layer different textures on top to blend their content.
In the case of the Fantasy Home products, the interior and exterior walls use them to blend a basic tiling wall with wear effects and stains that are custom to each wall variant (door, no door, no window, etc)

Rather than doing a custom hires wall texture for each interior and exterior wall variant, which would consume a lot of VRAM, you can use the 4-layer shader to slap the custom stains and cracks through an alpha mask.
The result still looks custom, with stains or damage around windows and door frames, but you're using the same lower res textures every time, with a simple, custom alpha mask for each variant.

I believe I included regular wall materials too that can be applied to the different walls where all the effects are baked into the textures. They're higher res and will consume more VRAM, but they should be there for those who export and render the product outide of Daz.
 

Thanks for the explanation, Strangefate. I'll take another, closer look at what shows up in my renders.