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Something wrong with geometry editor's merge graph?

kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I just found this option today and it looks like it could save me a ton of time and energy sending things back and forth between blender, but I'm a bit confused on the results.

So to create a geograph, you need to overlap the outer ring of the geograph with the model it's grafted to, which means those outer vertecies will be in the exact same location.

So how is it that geometry editor's merge graft option has trouble with the outer seams of the graft? Some polys aren't merged at all, some are stretched 2 or 3 (or more) polys out from where they should be...

 

Is this a bug that needs reported or is it just "it is what it is"?

Comments

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902
    edited June 2023

    You mean the function of 'Merge Fitted Figure's Geometry' and 'GeoGraft', correct ? And you wanna merge a GeoGraft with figure, is that right ?

    First, there's no bug or any issue as far as I experience when merging a Geograft (or any Wearable) with the figure. Polygons / vertices could be 100% well 'welded' with no problem.
    Second, not sure of what you wanna manipulate in Blender with the figure + grafts, but if you wanna export them to obj file as a single mesh, you don't need to 'merge them' beforehand, but just uncheck 'Write Separate Objects' in the dialogue box of  OBJ Export Options... They'll be merged and shown as a single mesh in Blender.

    PS: If there're really some issues after 'Merging Fitted Figure's Geometry', you may post a screenshot ... Remember to delete the graft node after merging...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    I wasn't aware of this option in the geometry editor so I would export the figure and graft to blender and use the merge geometry plugin (can't remember the exact names of the tools in blender) diffeomorph, export as object and send it back to transfer rigging and morphs back to the character

    Due to nudity rules of the forums, I can't post a screenshot but I've tried a couple times now with the same result. Some of the seems weld perfectly, but others either don't weld or weld to the wrong location.

     

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    hmmm, I just tried it on an un-morphed base g8 figure and has welded as it should.

    I guess morphs don't play nice with that option. I'll continue tinkering

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902

    I'm a Blender user and using Diffeomorph Daz Importer (DDI) as well. However, if you just use Blender to make morph, fixing pJCMs, etc., suggest not use DDI but just standard OBJ export / import.

    I post a merged one (G8M figure + DK Anatomy), flawless...

     

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    So as I was trying to get these forums to upload my screenshot (which it never would just kept getting stuck at "Uploading file")

    I reloaded the character and removed all morphs then re-did the merge and it appeared to merge correctly. As soon as I started adding morphs to the area, parts where it did not weld but instead overlapped, came apart.

     

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902

    In fact the morphs should be made separately on the Geograft and the Figure other than on a 'merged single mesh', just like those add-on morph products for the anatomies... But even if you really insist on doing the former, the geometry would not come apart, intersect, overlap or sth.

    Like this, I created a morph in Blender on the 'merged single mesh' (just on the welded edge) of the figure, still flawless...   Maybe... have you converted the figure to SubD after merging ?

    PS: Uploading doesn't work at this 'routine time' everyday...

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Unless copying the figure shape from the original to the new, unedited merge also copies the sub-D then no.

    Basically I took a blank g8, added 3feet's newgen. opened geometry editor and merged thegraft

    Loaded the original, unmerged character, copied/pasted the shape to the merged character and saw the issue.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902

    Finally I got you... in fact you 'dialed' character's body morph on the 'merged figure'... In most of such or similar cases, you never make it work as there's no FBM (Auto Follow) on the 'merged part', i.e. the 'merged New Gen', unless you create a corresponding 'FBM' on the 'merged figure'.

    But as I mentioned above, it's not a 'normal' way to manipulcate a case of a figure + a Geograft of anatomy...

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Oh, so it doesn't actually merge/weld the 2 pieces together making them 1 complete seamless model like I can get with diffeomorph in blender. (I know my terminology isn't exact and it's technically 1 model, but I hope you know what I mean like it's not sculpted from a single piece of clay)

    My issue with the blender route is I can never get an exact match in size coming back to Daz which makes things weird sometimes.

    I might have to go the Hexagon route and manually weld the geograph on. I was just hoping that's what this geometry editor option did.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902
    edited June 2023

    More likely I know what you mean, but I still would say: Merging Fitted...function in Geometry Editor really can seamlessly weld the figure and sub-items together in terms of geometry, however it doesn't mean the 'merged single mesh' can handle the existing full body morphs and partial morphs.

    They're different things... In other words, a PA sculpted a character and created a character's Full Body Morph on G8.x Base figure on which there was no such a 'merged geometry of an anatomy', so everything is 'perfect'. Now you dial this Full Body Morph on a Base figure with a 'merged anatomy', certainly it won't work fine, in most cases. You know what I mean... cool

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914
    edited June 2023

    Just to keep the correct conversation under the correct topic, since this one is about the geometry... This is the result I get from merging grafts whether I start with a morphed character or start with vanilla G8 and morph after:

     

     

    *edit to add*

    Even on an unmorphed character, it doesn't look like it welds correctly, like mid-way across the center it atatches too far down the inner thighs.

    Capture.jpg
    617 x 530 - 42K
    Post edited by kaotkbliss on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902

    As what I said above, it won't 'directly' work well with figure + dialed character morph on a 'merged figure'. You need to fix the body morph with Blender, ZB or sth. just like a PA fixes FBM / PBM / pJCMs... To be honest, if you're not good at fixing, pls don't go for this way of 'merging geometry'.

    If you wanna play these with Unreal, pls export your character with wearables, anatomies etc. with Daz to Unreal bridge : https://github.com/daz3d/DazToUnreal/releases, the only DT... series that has updates by now... then all the morphs could be exported to UE. Without these 'morphs', you have no way to well manipulate your figure + anotomies in UE. Btw, also refer to : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq6eePZxxvE

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,914

    Even using the base G8 character with no morphs whatsoever, I get the same result.

    Diffeomorphic inblender does a real good job of merging the graft to the character, the only issue I have with that route is the obj size when importing back to DS to transfer the rigging. If I can get that scaling number down for the import, then I can continue with the blender route.

    Manually welding in hexagon results in a beautiful character that transfers easy and the bends look fantastic (as fantastic as the bends can look without JCMs and corrective morphs being used) but the UV is obliterated.

     

    I was just seeing if there was an easier method to take in doing this and am surprized DS's merge graft in the geometry editor has this issue (at least in this region of the character).

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,902

    I haven't seen any issue from G8.XF/M Base figure + merged grafts in terms of the geometry and UVs, so I have no idea why you couldn't make it 'flawless' with merging. Maybe the culprit might be from some hidden properties coming from some 'wrongly defined' character body morphs. Pls check the figure's hidden properties.

    As for DDI' geograft merging, it's a correct result that you may further use the figure in Blender base on the reserved UVs and shape keys (morphs). However, if you bring it back to DS with obj file ( you have to export with Scale Value 1.0 ), it'll be useless unless you go for rigging it and you still have to fix the partial morphs / pJCMs etc.

    As for the 'welded result' from Hexagon, I know nothing about Hexagon, so I don't know where you saw 'bends look fantasic', in Hexagon or in DS. If you imported the 'welded figure' from Hexagon to DS, I don't think you can make it 'bend with no problem'.

  • t800_9fb39b25a9t800_9fb39b25a9 Posts: 12

    I encounter a similar problem. (on DAZ 4.22)

    Just by activating the geometry editor , the seams between my geograft and model seem to "pop  out" of alignment leaving gaps, and the geometry that is supposed to be replaced by the graph pops back into existence. Even if i now exit the tool and load any other scene, the seams between the geograft are messed up , like DAZ3d completly lost it's ability to do geographs. Is there some setting that gets disabled by activating the geograph editor that does not get re enabled if i exit the geograph editor ?

    Because .... if i restart DAZ3D , and then reload the same model , then the seams are back as they should.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,728

    t800_9fb39b25a9 said:

    I encounter a similar problem. (on DAZ 4.22)

    Just by activating the geometry editor , the seams between my geograft and model seem to "pop  out" of alignment leaving gaps, and the geometry that is supposed to be replaced by the graph pops back into existence. Even if i now exit the tool and load any other scene, the seams between the geograft are messed up , like DAZ3d completly lost it's ability to do geographs. Is there some setting that gets disabled by activating the geograph editor that does not get re enabled if i exit the geograph editor ?

    Because .... if i restart DAZ3D , and then reload the same model , then the seams are back as they should.

    Grafts, not graphs - because they graft two bits of mesh togeher - unless you have a tool like the Geometry Editor active in which case they unweld so that you can see what you are doing as you edit.

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