New/Beefy PC dying in DAZ
Carolinian
Posts: 16
Ok..
So I bought a new PC:
-i9 Intel CPU
-RTX 4090
-32GB ram
-Copious SSD space
-Fresh DAZ install
I load a character in, switch the viewer to iRay. I pan the cam around.. everything looks great. I add some clothes. And hear the GPU fans kick up a notch. Add some hair, and the GPU fans kicks up another notch. Then bam. Computer shuts down.
I've verified drivers up-to-date and no red flags from hardware temps. Getting power straight from the wall outlet.
It runs all the 'beefy' games like Cyberpunk on ultra setting without breaking a sweat. But I do know DAZ can push hardware in different ways.
Anyone have any ideas to check? My 30 day easy return policy is fast approaching and I don't want to keep this machine if I can't run DAZ with it (it's way overkill for my video games). Does this sound like a faulty power supply?
Thanks for any help/advice!
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Comments
How much did you scrimp on the power supply?
32 GB of system RAM is not really enough to feed a 4090 - there needs to be enough space for the working copy of the scene and for the data that is to be sent to the GPU (which is different, Iray needs the full resolution mesh and textues but doesn't need the morphs or joints, just the final shape) - the genreal advice is at least twice and ideally three times the GPU memory, so 48 to 72GB of system memory. It's quite possible that the system is simply running out of memory if you are remotely taxing the GPU.
Richard is right about the RAM, but I suspect your PSU is throwing in the towel.
DS iray preview or render will nearly get your 4090 card fully loaded ( > 95% constantly) while most games won't..., so if your PSU's not able to rock enough, your PC will probably 'BAM' ! How much rated power can it supply ?
32GB could've been enough to support a single character + some wearables as long as you had not opened other 'big software' that ate too much RAM.. but for such a rig, 64MB should be a minimum...
This is why it's best to build your own PC, or if you can't build your own, then get one from CyberPower PC (Or it's like) as they have actual boxed parts in their pre-builts plus with their robust configutor you know exactly what parts go into the pre-built, dell/alienware are really infamous for their over-priced, low-tier pcs!
And most crap-tiered pre-builts sites/company could give two ***** about the PSU, the most vital part of your PC, and you NEVER want to skimp out on those, PERIOD!
I haven't run the mentioned software above yet. Will update today or tomorrow when I do.
But I wanted to say the PSU is 1000w (not sure of the brand).
I do have another 1000w PSU I could swap in, but it just doesn't seem probable to me. PSU failure doesn't, in my experience, propagate as "not enough juice". They just... die.
PC was bought on NewEgg at a very good deal (it would have saved me like just $120 to build my self).
Has happened; https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/449416/iray-preview-pc-reboot/p1
If you have a 1kW psu, then it really would be worth looking at the temperatures. My new machine with only a 650W PSU & RTX 3060 GPU can get very hot very fast. In my case I found it happened with rendering only one particular model (naturally the first I tried the new machine on!) and the temperature spiked through the roof at pretty much the same rendering point each time I tried and DS crashed. GPU-Z was reporting temps of 92C, which were much hotter than I was happy with.
Does it happen with all characters? If yes, then it's probably not a problem with the model. If no, that might be the problem.
Do take a look at memory usage too. Running a 24Gb 4090 on a 32Gb machine will be a bit limiting. Ideally you need a system RAM capacity 3x the GPU VRAM, so even 64Gb could be the limiting factor in a render. Take a look at TaskManager and see if the system RAM is topping out. If it is, then that could be a source of a problem as DS seems to behave a bit erratically if memory page files are used during rendering and can bomb out.
Just a few ideas.
Regards,
Richard.
If the rated power is 1000W, it should be fine, but if's not a rated power... I'm not so sure. Some PSU labeled with 1000W but rated power is just 800W even lower.... BTW, what is the brand of your 4090?
Anyway, use GPU-Z to monitor the card performance first, check the temperature, and the peak change esp. when you load 'some big wearables' to the figure.
I would also recommend a memory test. Which I9 do you have, and how is it cooled? My Cpu is an I9 10850k, and I built my machine with a double liquid cooler, and it still overheated. So I had to underclock the processor, which runs at 4800MHz, to 3.6 MHz to get the heat under control. So now I got a full 3-tier liquid cooler with no overheating. Intel protects its processor by thermal throttling but may cause BAM. Bad memory can cause this to happen also
I don't think OP is able to handle all these, at least for the time being. Maybe OP could request for an After-Sales support from NewEgg (have no idea if there is any.. I always DIY my rig...).. If the issue still persists, better go for the easy return...
I myself cannot accept a brand new PC that is not able to work for me...
Somewhat correct. I work 70hrs a week and only have about 2hrs a day to burn on hobbies, so progress on self diagnosing this will be slow. I am however pretty computer savvy. I'll attempt some of the above suggestions and will report back asap.
It's kind of frustrating to see multiple entries in DAZ forums about similar issues, and almost none have resolutions at the end. Did these people never narrow it down, or just not report back their solutions?
Thanks everyone for the rapid responses. I'll be back.
What kind of mainboard has the PC?
We had same crashes with PC with Asus Mainboard, when the Asus Software "Asus Armory Crade" is installed. Without that everything works fine.
Thanks for clearing that up, yeah, I'm not a fan of Newegg, read too many horror stories about them on the Newegg Reddit sub that the majority of their 3rd party sellers are scammers, at least it was that way a couple of years ago, so I'm not really up-to-date as I've blacklisted them, I currently buy from Best Buy and Amazon nowadays. Here's to hoping your job promotes you so you don't have to work 70 hours a ****in' week, as NO-ONE in a developed nation should have to work 70 hours a week!
Unless you have kids of course, then all bets are off as they're expensive lil buggers! :) ;)
I also have much concern about that.. 70 hours ?! 10h x 7d ?! 14h x 5d?! How could that be?!
You will be amazed how the hours add up when you have a job where you are 24 hr call.
Here is an article on the RTX 4090 and power supplies:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/1200w-power-requirement-rtx-4090
You may something more powerful or a 1kw supply of premium quality. Check with NewEgg on the manufacturer/model of your PS. Which Intel i9 CPU are you running? Some have a high power draw.
Is your system overheating? What kind of cooling do you have - Liquid or Air? If the latter, how many fans?
One more thing - Inspect your system and determine if CPU or GPU overclocking is turned on. If so, turn off the OC and try rendering again.
Thanks for posting this I was going to suggest the same but decided not to, so I'm glad it was said, as even my 3090 has been known to shut down my 1k PSU if I push it too hard!
But then again, I have ten externals and even a CD/DVD RW so all USB ports are filled to capacity. :P
I'd return it and let the dealer fix it.
If the PC is shutting down completely I'd suspect the PSU, may be faulty or may be overloaded. GPUs and CPUs should throttle or maybe crash to desktop rather than BAM and I've usually got blue screens or CTDs with ram unless it's got to the point where it won't even boot.
Do you have the CPU selected as a render device? The Iray render preview can be pretty agressive with both CPU and GPU rendering enabled. With a GPU as fast as a 4090 the CPU won't add much except for heat and power usage.
Outside of that, usual stuff, make sure everything is seated correctly and turn off any overclocks, especially auto CPU overclocking on the motherboard.
I've got an I7 13700k and a base model 4090, both running at stock settings. I'm using a high quality 850w PSU that according to reviews will do a steady 900w before shutting down gracefully.
With the CPU and GPU selected for rendering and Iray preview enabled I'm seeing highs of close to 700w system power draw with the CPU doing about 250w and the GPU about 300w.
Using just the GPU I'm hitting highs of about 450w for total system power draw with the Iray preview active. Disabling CPU rendering means the CPU power draw is generally very low while using Studio except for bursts when loading stuff.
In games I'm between 550w-700w system with the GPU upto 450w and the CPU usually 100-125w unless it's loading a game when it briefly hits 250w.
Mostly you won't be hitting the GPU and the CPU hard at the same time while gaming. You won't be hitting the CPU and GPU hard at the same time in Studio unless you have CPU rendering enabled.
Your hardware is probably a little more power hungry than mine, add some for power spikes and depending on the quality a 1000w PSU might be marginal.
**Issue has been resolved**
All hardware was running exceptionally cool. The RTX 4090 never peaked above 47C. i9 CPU liquid cooled was also running within exceptional temp parameters.
I turned off CPU rendering in DAZ, and the issue vanished. I tried to overload a scene, several characters with hair and clothing, with a very intensive evironment complete with tons of props and lighting. And the problem never resurfaced.
I heavily suspect, given the power issues of the 4090 in the link someone posted above, that the GPU working at 100% in conjunction with the CPU also being stressed... that the PSU is being overloaded. I probably actually need a 1200W PSU to turn CPU rendering/fall-back on.
Under typical conditions in gaming, even with ultra graphics in very intensive games, even with the tons of fans and RGB lighting .. the PSU is sufficient. But DAZ, as stated by many before me, stresses hardware in different ways than gaming.
Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone who commented and offered things to try. And I hope one day this thread helps someone else.
I'll update again once I run a wattage monitor to confirm and/or if I upgrade the PSU.
There is no benefit in having the CPU as a rendering device together with the GPU as the CPU is so much slower than the GPU.
CPU fallback can be on all the time, as that doesn't get used unless you run out of VRAM on your GPU while rendering.