What to look for in computer stats
swlamedic
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I am looking for what is most important in computer stats. I am buying a new computer soon for the sole purpose of 3d rendering and animation. I am looking at two different Alienwares for this task, but before I make a large dollar purchase, I wanted to get as much information as I can. Please, I am not looking for opinions or thoughts, I am looking for information to make the best selection. Such as, I am not sure if cores are more important than cache, and how the CPU compares to GPU for importance, and also the importance of RAM. I understand that more of everything is better, but I want to know what options are best and what other options I have out there that I have not found or considered. Attached are the two specs for the Alienware computers that I am looking at. Thank you for you time and consideration.
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The Pro version of Windows. No need for 4TB boot drive, 1TB is plenty enough as it is not a good idea to store anything on the drive that has the OS. Put another drive inside, 4TB's is a good start for even DS content.
I don't know if you know this, but those systems are a pain when upgrading components. They have always been that way. Alienware locks hardware with brackets and plastic tabs. I just said pain doesn't mean you can't upgrade. Just more complex than a regular desktop.
While some things may be objective, there really are a lot of opinions in what is better than another. But an opinion can come from an informed place.
Between the 2 machines, it is fairly easy, the one with 128gb of RAM is better for that simple reason. RAM speed is not that important for Iray. The amounts of RAM and VRAM are absolutely vital. If you run out of VRAM, your GPU will not render, and that is very bad. If you run out of RAM, then you can crash Daz Studio, which is also very bad.
The scene you create needs to fit both. If you have a 24gb of VRAM, then if you plan on actually using all of that VRAM, you will very likely need 128gb of RAM to do so. There is a video on youtube of a user who played around with a 3090 which also has 24gb of VRAM. They were adding Genesis characters into a scene to see how many they could add before filling up VRAM. They were not able to do so. At about 17gb of VRAM, they were using up all 64gb of RAM they had, and Daz Studio would crash. It took them a few attempts to realize what was happening. So they could not use all 24gb of VRAM with this particular scene.
How much VRAM and RAM you use can vary wildly on what you intend to do, and every body is different. Every scene is different. While this user topped out their 64gb of RAM with 17gb of VRAM, that doesn't mean every scene will.
The reason for this is because Iray compressed texture data before sending it to VRAM. There are other factors, too. So you will always be using more RAM than VRAM. You can control the amount of compression in the advanced Iray settings tab. They are already very aggressive by default, so it is unlikely you can save more data by increasing them. Rather you may want to decrease compression for better quality, but that will use more VRAM.
The GPU is the main part. The CPU almost doesn't even matter. All the CPU has to do is keep up with Daz Studio, and most modern CPUs will handle that fine. For Daz Studio, you generally don't need to worry too much about spec besides GPU and memory. If you plan on using other software, you just have to look up some discussion around them. There places where AMD is better, and places where Intel is better. For Daz it doesn't matter. But if you plan on using Adobe Premier Pro for video editing your animations, Intel is miles better at Adobe software in general. AMD is better at decompression, stuff like unzipping files. Both of these thing might save you time in their own way depending on how much you use them, so you need to examine exactly what you want to use and research each one. That is just how it is, but that is a good sign that competition is alive.
I also would caution about Alienware. Like AgitatedRiot said, they have a tendency to do things their own way, instead of using just normal standards. Personally, I would get a computer that is built with fully off the shelf parts, because that means it is more serviceable in the future. If you build this thing well, it can serve you years and all you would need to do is upgrade GPUs if you desire.
Which on that note, a GPU upgrade doesn't have to be replacing a GPU. You can upgrade Iray by ADDING a second GPU to the system. What is faster than a 4090? How about 2 of them? Or if a 5090 comes out in 2024, you can add it to your 4090 and they can render together. But you need a power supply that can handle that, and a system that can cool and physically hold 2 powerful cards. A 5090 might be very powerful when it comes, but a 5090+4090 would still be faster! The moral here is that if you build your system well, you will have this option in the future if you want it. I personally have a 3060 and a 3090, and together they are pretty quick. Maybe not 4090 quick, but not drastically far off. Of course the 3060 only has 12gb and will not render if the scene is larger than that, so that is a complication. But it is real nice when he scene does fit, LOL.
So you have tons of options for what to do, and what works best for you may be different from someone else.
While I really cannot completely complain about Alienware (I own an older Alienware laptop that has been and still is a trusty workhorse for the most part--I say that because it too runs hot and recently has had bouts of thermal thrashing --until I unloaded Dell's proprietary drivers), I definitely agree with others here regarding the Alienware desktops--components being propietary. The part specs for this desktop are new, however, the case is not well designed at all--airlow is not optimal for these new components that run really hot--esp a higher end GPU. I would also find out what power supply is being used in these desktops. Youtube's Gamer's Nexus put out a video regarding Alienware Desktops--( I see they are still employing the same case design from then)--it would definitely be worth a watch prior to purchase for this price:
For that kind of budget I would get someone to build you one with much of the same components and a much better case design -- but that is me--I agree with others on beefing up the RAM and GPU
...for my purposes a 1TB boot drive is overkill unless it is the only drive inthe system (like a notebook). I have W7 Pro installed on a 256 GB boot drive and experienced no issues.
The only installs to that drive are other programme files. I tend to not even use the User/Documents folders on C (though Daz and other software does use the App Data folders but that is usually minimal storag0e .
My Daz Library image libraries, IM downloads backup, etc are on a larger secondary drive.
What programs are you going to run?
Assuming Daz Studio then - 4090, at least 64gb of system ram, some kind of modernish cpu, plenty of storage.
Avoid Alienware or any other prebuilt that uses non standard parts.
...keep in mind for that 4090 you will need a fairly robust PSU and a case with excellent airflow. Look at what Nvidia says it requires and move to the next higher output model above as memory the board, drives and other components (including CPU coolers) all draw power. Better to have more than you need as it means less strain on the unit..
A well ventilated case! That includes intake and exhaust fans, filters on the intake fans, and NO covers over the fans.
If there are only 2 options, a good answer is to go with Ryzen:
If I may suggest a couple more options:
The better answer is doing the Intel build w/upgrade to128 GB RAM and Windows Pro.
The best answer is a custom Intel build that will allow for better customization and upgrading over time.
Your choice of render engine is going to greatly determine your hardware priority.
If you're gonna be using a PBR render engine, you want a big, beefy GPU(Nvidia if you want best results with IRAY).\
If you're gonna be doing rendering with 3DL, you want a faster CPU, as 3DL is completely GPU-independant.
...the issue with Intel is the "split core" design ("Power" which are hyperthreaded and "Efficiency" which are single threaded) they went to on all "i" series CPUs.
While for Daz Iray rendering, it may not be a significant difference (as the Daz programme itself only uses a single CPU core when assembling scenes [though that could change with Daz 5.x]), but If you use other software that takes full advantage of all CPU cores Ryzen would be better way to go. For example, an 8 core Intel is split into 4 hyperthreading core and 4 single core processors so instead of 16 threads you get 12, The "Efficiency" cores also run at a lower base clock rate.
This new Intel architecture makes sense for notebooks and tablets which are battery powered not a desktop system that is plugged into an external power source all the time.
just never buy an alienware pc, thats rule #1
..,true, or for that fact any "off the shelf" system.
If you need a prebuilt computer, as an alternative to Alienware, may I suggest Puget Systems ?
They focus on higher end workstations for rendering but that also means they don't cut corners, they know what's needed. If you play with their configurator you'll see that they use standard components which shouldn't cause future issues. You do pay for their expertise & support though so they're definitely not the cheapest option out there.
I personally prefer to build my own (it's not that hard) or if you can find a shop that will custom build a system for you and stand behind it, that can be a better option than a prebuilt.
If you play with their configurator it'll give you a list of components that you can then buy and assemble yourself. Scan in the UK have a similar one for RTX workstations.
I'm waiting for 48gb DDR5 6000 dimms to become available at a reasonable price before I consider an upgrade. Two of those would be enough for rendering, fast enough for gaming and sidestep the compatibility issues that modern platforms seem to have with 4 dimms.
The split core thing with Intel is both a positive and a weakness vs AMD. So it is not at all clear cut which is better, because there is no universal winner. Also, as I mentioned before, Intel leverages its iGPU for certain software. As you talked about animation, if using Premier Pro is part of your workflow, you would want go Intel for this.
Gamersnexus just casually mentioned that they replaced their video production AMD Threadripper machines with Intel for Premier Pro, because it makes that much of a difference for them. This quote can be found around the 23 minute mark of their Ryzen 7950X3D review.
In theory AMD Ryzen would be better for most things, but in reality it is always true. There are certainly software where Ryzen wins, but there are also software where Intel wins, and sometimes these wins are pretty big. So it is important to know what software you are using and what works best with it.
Even the power draw numbers can be skewed by reviewers if you look at the gaming sites. The 4090 doesn't even use 300 Watts rendering with Daz Iray. That is not such a crazy number considering that many high end cards of every generation are around 260 Watts, with overclocked models going way higher into the 300 Watt range. You will also hear a lot of people say that new Intel CPUs are very power hungry. This is not actually true. At full 100% load, yes they can draw a lot of power. But that is only with all cores going 100%, which very few software actually do. You are GPU rendering...you will almost never be using your CPU at full load. The Intel chips can actually use LESS power than their Ryzen counterparts, yes, I wrote less, in certain software. They can idle very low, something most tech reviewers don't even look at. Believe it or not, most of your CPU's up time is spent idling, so idle power draw is a factor with overall power usage. In some apps, again, Adobe comes up, the iGPU is leveraged in a way that can make the CPU cores more efficient because the iGPU does the heavy lifting.
As great as Gamersnexus and Hardware Unboxed are, they are gaming focused channels. Nearly all of their content is about gaming, though it can cross over when they discuss something like Alienware and build quality. Their CPU reviews only scratch the surface of content creation. Their power draw tests only test Blender rendering with the CPU, which is a 100% load test. I kind of have to wonder who is still rendering in Blender with a CPU these days, but that is beside the point. They then use this one and only test as a way to discuss power draw, which just isn't practical or even realistic for most of users watching the video. It isn't really the best place for a content creation review.