Daz Studio and Linux

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  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,215
    Kitsumo said:
    Kitsumo said:

    Can someone tell me how to manage (or at least create) a wine bottle? I've been trying to install Wibom but the install process keeps failing on my computer. I'm just using plain Ubuntu because I figured thats the easiest to get support for. And I just installed it this afternoon.

    Should I just be managing bottles from the command line?

    Edit: I got it working using Playonlinux. I can render in Iray using CPU, I just need to get my GPU working.

    Hi

    Only reference to Wibom I can find dates to 2011 - quite a lot of abandoned projects around, always look for a relatively recent date.

    If you are looking for a wine prefix management GUI alternate to Playonlinux (personally, I don't like the up and coming java based ui), Vineyard might be a good choice (I've not tried it though). https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/vineyard-wine-configuration-tool-linux http://vineyardproject.org/about/

    Ubuntu is a good choice (I still run it on my Netbook).

    For some reason, once I installed my Nvidia drivers, DS would no longer start up. I can't say that's the cause, but anyway I'm done messing with it for the weekend. I'll try again next weekend. Thanks for the tip, I'll look into Vineyard.

    Elementary question - After installing the Nvidia drivers, did you reboot before trying DS again?

    After a 'Linux kernel update and driver update I get errors launching Daz until after a reboot to pick up the updated driver. Probably not required running the OSS drivers, but the proprietary ones  require it.

    Ubuntu usually tells you if a reboot is required after an update, but I can't recall if it would after installing new software.

    I did reboot, but I should point out I don't have the display hooked up to the Nvidia card. My GTX 460 requires a micro-something to HDMI adapter which I have but can't find, so instead I hooked up the monitor to my Radeon 5830. I don't know if not having a monitor connected to a card prevents it from initializing (I know it used to years ago) but I thought I'd point that out.

    And its very possible I messed up the installation. I downloaded the driver from NVDA, but couldn't figure out what to do with it, so I ended up using apt-get install nvidia 390 and everything went through, no error messages.

  • CederienCederien Posts: 32
    edited April 2018

    You should not use the drivers from Nvidia directly. Compiling them is tricky at best (and has to be redone every time Ubuntu delivers a fresh kernel version). Since you are using plain Ubuntu, you should instead use the Nvidia drivers from the Ubuntu repositories. (Which you did using apt-get, so that should work fine. 390.xx is also the most current driver, so that should also work fine.)

    That's a general point actually. While most Windows users are 'trained' to find and DL their software and drivers from many sources, on Linux it's usually wiser to use the repositories for your distribution. The software there is already fine tuned to your particular flavor of Linux (if such a thing is necessary) and updates come from a central source in a timely fashion.
    If you need newer versions of a software, it's usually better to see if there are 3rd party repositories you trust that provide them for your distrbution. (Pretty common for Ubuntu/Debian.)

    I've no idea however how well Ubuntu (and Linux in general) handles the presence of video cards (and drivers) from both Nvidia and AMD. If it detects one card is 'unused' it might well be it keeps it inactive. OTOH I know people have been able to use the the integrated graphics from their Intel CPU's for their screens in order to free the Nvidia for rendering, so it should be possible to have both working.

    Nvidia Utils should have installed automatically with your driver, but it won't hurt to check. You might wish to install nvidia-settings and see what it says.

     

    Post edited by Cederien on
  • Cederien said:

    Well the obvious solution to a number of those problems (though not guranteed to be successful) would be to go open source. Since DAZ isn't making money from the software itself it COULD be a win-win. I'm wondering however if they could release their code even if they wanted. Might be that they are employing a number of closed source solutions, so it might not be that simple to relase their code to the public. Iray is an obvious obstacle there, but since Nvidia already ported Iray to Linux it might be a problem that can be worked around.

    Not everything that is run on 'Linux is open source.

    The drivers provided by Nvidia drivers certainly aren't, and even AMD who have been doing a better job of working with OSS of late have their own new drivers (AMDGPU-Pro) built on top of the OSS AMDGPU drivers, but still not OSS.

    Even the Linux Kernel usually requires binary blob firmware to run parts of your hardware sometimes because that is all that is available, it hasn't been totally open since 1996. There are a small number of distros that only ship with totally libre kernels, but to use those you really need to hand pick your hardware to ensure OSS driver and firmware availability. Common needs are for Networking and RAID controllers as well as accelerated graphics drivers.

    All the well-known distros mostly ship with binary only firmware in their repos to make it as easy as possible to get 'Linux installed and running with little to no technical knoweledge or frustration on the myriad of different hardware the average PC could be using.

  • Something to keep in mind.  In DS 4.10 3Delight now runs approximately 40-45% slower under wine than native on the same hardware.  This did not use to be the case as close as 4.6 where the 3DL was closer to 90%.  If you're serious about actually rendering on DS/Linux then you should seriously invsetigate installing the 3DL standalone version for Linux and exporting to RIB from DS.  Then rendering natively.

    Kendall

    Is anyone 'serious' about rendering on DS still using 3DL? Sometimes it seems not...

    Ditto for Luxrender, should one be using Reality or Luxus.

    Both Luxrender and 3Delight are available in the repos of most 'Linux distros, why not take advantage of it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,023

    ...still using 3DL here because of the ridiculous prices for GPUs.

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    edited April 2018
    Kitsumo said:
    Kitsumo said:
    Kitsumo said:

    Can someone tell me how to manage (or at least create) a wine bottle? I've been trying to install Wibom but the install process keeps failing on my computer. I'm just using plain Ubuntu because I figured thats the easiest to get support for. And I just installed it this afternoon.

    Should I just be managing bottles from the command line?

    Edit: I got it working using Playonlinux. I can render in Iray using CPU, I just need to get my GPU working.

    Hi

    Only reference to Wibom I can find dates to 2011 - quite a lot of abandoned projects around, always look for a relatively recent date.

    If you are looking for a wine prefix management GUI alternate to Playonlinux (personally, I don't like the up and coming java based ui), Vineyard might be a good choice (I've not tried it though). https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/vineyard-wine-configuration-tool-linux http://vineyardproject.org/about/

    Ubuntu is a good choice (I still run it on my Netbook).

    For some reason, once I installed my Nvidia drivers, DS would no longer start up. I can't say that's the cause, but anyway I'm done messing with it for the weekend. I'll try again next weekend. Thanks for the tip, I'll look into Vineyard.

    Elementary question - After installing the Nvidia drivers, did you reboot before trying DS again?

    After a 'Linux kernel update and driver update I get errors launching Daz until after a reboot to pick up the updated driver. Probably not required running the OSS drivers, but the proprietary ones  require it.

    Ubuntu usually tells you if a reboot is required after an update, but I can't recall if it would after installing new software.

    I did reboot, but I should point out I don't have the display hooked up to the Nvidia card. My GTX 460 requires a micro-something to HDMI adapter which I have but can't find, so instead I hooked up the monitor to my Radeon 5830. I don't know if not having a monitor connected to a card prevents it from initializing (I know it used to years ago) but I thought I'd point that out.

    And its very possible I messed up the installation. I downloaded the driver from NVDA, but couldn't figure out what to do with it, so I ended up using apt-get install nvidia 390 and everything went through, no error messages.

    https://askubuntu.com/questions/892532/nvidia-card-for-cuda-and-amd-card-for-display-on-ubuntu-16-04

    Is the most recent instructions I could find on Dual non-matching cards on 'Linux (Ubuntu specifically). (dated 2017).

    Going from distro repo in this case might just run afoul of dependancies if Nvida and AMD drivers conflict (wants to remove one to install the other).

    I was hoping to do something similar, but putting a Ryzen7 CPU in my Mobo deactivated the onboard AMD GPU - maybe a bus issue, wish that note in the manual was more widely reported before I bought the mobo and chip. Oh well.

     

    It doesn't look a very user-friendly process, I guess not enough people are doing it to warrant making it easier to do.

    Post edited by GafftheHorse on
  • kyoto kid said:

    ...still using 3DL here because of the ridiculous prices for GPUs.

    Still using 3DL (and occasionally Lux) just for the sheer fun and change of perspective. 3DL is still more efficient at indoor (enclosed) scenes.

  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,433

    Reality is is an exporter/frontend for Luxrender 

    Is anyone 'serious' about rendering on DS still using 3DL? Sometimes it seems not...

    Ditto for Luxrender, should one be using Reality or Luxus.

    Both Luxrender and 3Delight are available in the repos of most 'Linux distros, why not take advantage of it.

     

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    edited April 2018

    Reality is is an exporter/frontend for Luxrender 

    Is anyone 'serious' about rendering on DS still using 3DL? Sometimes it seems not...

    Ditto for Luxrender, should one be using Reality or Luxus.

    Both Luxrender and 3Delight are available in the repos of most 'Linux distros, why not take advantage of it.

     

    To clarify my previous comment....

    Should a 'Linux Daz Studio be using Reality or Luxus plugins (both available on the Daz Store), there is a native version of Luxrender available for 'Linux, just like 3Delight, that can be used instead of using the one running on Wine...

    Post edited by GafftheHorse on
  • Clinfo on Linux reports both the Nvidia GPU and the AMD CPU.....

    Just run clinfo.exe on my Daz wine prefix - it reports one platform only - the Nvidia GPU

    - and still no valid Opencl device found by Daz for dForce.

    - and Iray on Daz cannot see any other device for Iray but CPU.

    Next, source firmware update for mobo, install the Nvidia Beta driver and maybe try it with wine-staging....

  • brainmuffinbrainmuffin Posts: 1,198

    I've got a clean install of Mint 18.3 and Wine3.0. Gonna try this again.

  • brainmuffinbrainmuffin Posts: 1,198
    Padone said:

    I didn't read the 28 pages of this discussion so I apologize if I say something already pointed out.

    In my opinion if you don't need Iray then using the 32 bit version of DAZ Studio should be doable with WINE. Personally I find Studio pretty limited for my needs so I just use it to export the DAZ assets to Blender, that also works perfectly fine with Linux. So this could be a viable workflow for you too.

    For the sake of completeness I'd add that I like Linux but I work with Windows. Because of better drivers and because it's easier in general.

    Are figures posable once they are in Blender?

  • loopenoxloopenox Posts: 47
    No no noooooooooo!! Dammit. After the really necessary OS update including the Nvidia drivers from 385 to 390, I lost the CUDA option in Studio. Now it only lists my CPU as computing device and I can't roll back the drivers and security updates just to get CUDA back. Do you guys have iray running with GPU support? Which driver and which Wine version do you use? Any tricks? Really want this to run again, it was so damn nice.
  • Ron KnightsRon Knights Posts: 1,783

    Come on, folks. Linux will never be a "mainstream" operating system. You will never find Linux versions of Adobe products or DAZ Studio, etc. Yes, Linux has its strengths. But that is all.

  • loopenoxloopenox Posts: 47
    edited April 2018

    Come on, folks. Linux will never be a "mainstream" operating system.

    ...and?
    Post edited by loopenox on
  • loopenoxloopenox Posts: 47
    UPDATE: Problem solved! Couple minutes ago I realized that the cuda libraries might need an update and checked that. In fact, with the installation of the new Nvidia drivers the old ones AND the cuda libraries got removed and only the new drivers got installed. So in short: Don't forget to install "libcuda1-390" and "nvidia-opencl-icd-390" (if you install a different version than 390, of course use that number instead). Studio is working perfectly fine now with iray running on GPU!!! :D
  • brainmuffinbrainmuffin Posts: 1,198

    Come on, folks. Linux will never be a "mainstream" operating system. You will never find Linux versions of Adobe products or DAZ Studio, etc. Yes, Linux has its strengths. But that is all.

    Windows isn't ready to be a "mainstream" OS, but it is forced on us by Microsoft.

  • brainmuffinbrainmuffin Posts: 1,198

    With Apple moving away from Intel, what's the likelihood of Mac support being dropped by DAZ? Would a Linux compile make sense on the Intel compatible platform?

  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,433

    Come on, folks. Linux will never be a "mainstream" operating system. You will never find Linux versions of Adobe products or DAZ Studio, etc. Yes, Linux has its strengths. But that is all.

    Windows isn't ready to be a "mainstream" OS, but it is forced on us by Microsoft.

    True and they also do their Windows development in a VM on a Linux machine

    Saw an article the other day saying that Microsoft is about to release their own Linux distro

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,816

    Come on, folks. Linux will never be a "mainstream" operating system. You will never find Linux versions of Adobe products or DAZ Studio, etc. Yes, Linux has its strengths. But that is all.

    Windows isn't ready to be a "mainstream" OS, but it is forced on us by Microsoft.

    True and they also do their Windows development in a VM on a Linux machine

    Saw an article the other day saying that Microsoft is about to release their own Linux distro

    Yes, I read about it yesterday. Not a desktop OS, tho'...

    http://www.itprotoday.com/microsoft-azure/microsoft-brings-linux-driven-iot-security-azure

  • brainmuffinbrainmuffin Posts: 1,198

    There's been a Linux kernel inside of Windows for a few years. Watched a very interesting video about it a year or so ago. Windows could be more secure if it wasn't for gaming.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,023

    ...interesting.

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567

    There's been a Linux kernel inside of Windows for a few years. Watched a very interesting video about it a year or so ago. Windows could be more secure if it wasn't for gaming.

    There's no Linux kernel inside of Windows its the Windows subsystem for Linux (WSL) which allows 'Linux binaries to run on Windows. It was written by the windows kernel team, which maybe the confusion.

    https://github.com/ionescu007/lxss/blob/master/The Linux kernel hidden inside windows 10.pdf

  • 3djake3djake Posts: 8
    edited May 2018

    Has anyone got opencl working with wine for iray renderer and simulations with nvidia gpu?

    I tried compiling my own opencl libraries for wine using nvidia development files but daz still does not detect my gpu as a opencl device. Rendering via cpu is slow and I do not want to learn 3delight renderer just yet.

    Seems my compiled opencl libraries are missing some functions, as when I run "wine ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/syswow64/clinfo.exe" I get errors about unimplemented functions, If I can get these libraries working I will share them.

    EDIT:  I can render using my nvidia gfx card if I use wine-staging but dforce will still only let me use my cpu.

     

    Post edited by 3djake on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    3djake said:

    Has anyone got opencl working with wine for iray renderer and simulations with nvidia gpu?

    I tried compiling my own opencl libraries for wine using nvidia development files but daz still does not detect my gpu as a opencl device. Rendering via cpu is slow and I do not want to learn 3delight renderer just yet.

    Seems my compiled opencl libraries are missing some functions, as when I run "wine ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/syswow64/clinfo.exe" I get errors about unimplemented functions, If I can get these libraries working I will share them.

    EDIT:  I can render using my nvidia gfx card if I use wine-staging but dforce will still only let me use my cpu.

     

    Best to note what distro and version you are running, sometimes helps. I'm on Archlinux

    I'm still running with less success than that.

    Wine won't recognise my AMD Ryzen 7 CPU as an OpenCL device (so reports CLinfo.exe), so no dForce with the CPU as well as no GPU renders or dForce through a perfectly good Nvidia GTX 1080. Installing the AMDSDK did not help, nor fiddling with winecfg and dlls.

    GPGPU works fine on native Linux as far as I can tell - Blender renders seem to use it, Lux through Reality usually can be coaxed to use it (provided Reality doesn't crash trying to convert scene).

    I don't find Iray renders onerous, I get good Iray scene convergeance in anything between 1hr and 2hrs, no slower than running a 3Delight render using Marshians Reflective Radiance and cetainly quicker than Lux.

    I've found 3Delight a great learning experience - Iray is too easy sometimes...I appreaciate approaching an activity from an entirely new angle - 3DL is actually quicker than Iray on dark scenes, and I particularly prefer it for firelight scenes, but even with Gamma Correction on, they lack that lovely solid (almost real) appearance Iray has (and Lux comes close to).

    Are you sure the the reported missing functions are not on Wines side, not the opencl library on 'Linux?

  • 3djake3djake Posts: 8
    3djake said:

    Has anyone got opencl working with wine for iray renderer and simulations with nvidia gpu?

    I tried compiling my own opencl libraries for wine using nvidia development files but daz still does not detect my gpu as a opencl device. Rendering via cpu is slow and I do not want to learn 3delight renderer just yet.

    Seems my compiled opencl libraries are missing some functions, as when I run "wine ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/syswow64/clinfo.exe" I get errors about unimplemented functions, If I can get these libraries working I will share them.

    EDIT:  I can render using my nvidia gfx card if I use wine-staging but dforce will still only let me use my cpu.

     

    Best to note what distro and version you are running, sometimes helps. I'm on Archlinux

    I'm still running with less success than that.

    Wine won't recognise my AMD Ryzen 7 CPU as an OpenCL device (so reports CLinfo.exe), so no dForce with the CPU as well as no GPU renders or dForce through a perfectly good Nvidia GTX 1080. Installing the AMDSDK did not help, nor fiddling with winecfg and dlls.

    GPGPU works fine on native Linux as far as I can tell - Blender renders seem to use it, Lux through Reality usually can be coaxed to use it (provided Reality doesn't crash trying to convert scene).

    I don't find Iray renders onerous, I get good Iray scene convergeance in anything between 1hr and 2hrs, no slower than running a 3Delight render using Marshians Reflective Radiance and cetainly quicker than Lux.

    I've found 3Delight a great learning experience - Iray is too easy sometimes...I appreaciate approaching an activity from an entirely new angle - 3DL is actually quicker than Iray on dark scenes, and I particularly prefer it for firelight scenes, but even with Gamma Correction on, they lack that lovely solid (almost real) appearance Iray has (and Lux comes close to).

    Are you sure the the reported missing functions are not on Wines side, not the opencl library on 'Linux?

    Have you tried the latest wine-staging? that got everything working for me. 

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    edited May 2018
    3djake said:
    3djake said:

    Has anyone got opencl working with wine for iray renderer and simulations with nvidia gpu?

    I tried compiling my own opencl libraries for wine using nvidia development files but daz still does not detect my gpu as a opencl device. Rendering via cpu is slow and I do not want to learn 3delight renderer just yet.

    Seems my compiled opencl libraries are missing some functions, as when I run "wine ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/syswow64/clinfo.exe" I get errors about unimplemented functions, If I can get these libraries working I will share them.

    EDIT:  I can render using my nvidia gfx card if I use wine-staging but dforce will still only let me use my cpu.

     

    Best to note what distro and version you are running, sometimes helps. I'm on Archlinux

    I'm still running with less success than that.

    Wine won't recognise my AMD Ryzen 7 CPU as an OpenCL device (so reports CLinfo.exe), so no dForce with the CPU as well as no GPU renders or dForce through a perfectly good Nvidia GTX 1080. Installing the AMDSDK did not help, nor fiddling with winecfg and dlls.

    GPGPU works fine on native Linux as far as I can tell - Blender renders seem to use it, Lux through Reality usually can be coaxed to use it (provided Reality doesn't crash trying to convert scene).

    I don't find Iray renders onerous, I get good Iray scene convergeance in anything between 1hr and 2hrs, no slower than running a 3Delight render using Marshians Reflective Radiance and cetainly quicker than Lux.

    I've found 3Delight a great learning experience - Iray is too easy sometimes...I appreaciate approaching an activity from an entirely new angle - 3DL is actually quicker than Iray on dark scenes, and I particularly prefer it for firelight scenes, but even with Gamma Correction on, they lack that lovely solid (almost real) appearance Iray has (and Lux comes close to).

    Are you sure the the reported missing functions are not on Wines side, not the opencl library on 'Linux?

    Have you tried the latest wine-staging? that got everything working for me. 

    I've plans to try Wine-staging again - only diff (between Wine and Wine-staging) package (inclusion-wise) appears to be an additional vulcan-icd-loader.

    Every time I sit down with some free time, I think, I'll just do a little scene first, before I know it, my free time is used up.

    Worth a try again. I suppose.

    Edit : Just found some free time to update my system - replaced Wine with Wine-staging, rebooted (update to kernel also required it anyway).

    No change - not unexpected, but disappointing anyway - the only difference in the packages between Wine and Wine-staging on Archlinux seems to be some extra vulcan libs, and although opencl is merging with vulcan, I thinks it's too early to see any changes.

    Definitely something to do with Wine not seeing my AMD CPU as an Opencl device - not sure why - installed the AMD SDK as per Morks instructions.

    Post edited by GafftheHorse on
  • CederienCederien Posts: 32
    edited May 2018

    While I decided on an Intel (8720k) just to be on the safe side (everything, i.e. iray and cpu opencl, worked out of the box btw., just had to update the intel opencl in wine) I had the opportunity to play around with the Threatripper system of a friend last weekend. So I cloned my Arch install to an external drive. Had to setup a new wine flask (installing the AMD opencl alongside the intel one seems not to work well), but otherwise, following morks instructions I got AMD CPU opencl to work on that Threatripper system just fine. No idea on GPU Iray as my friend has a Radeon Card.

    Not sure what's so particular problematic with your system Gaff (or at what point you might have messed up), but I doubt it's due to your hardware being to new. Threatripper and the X399 platform should be newer and likely much less common, so I doubt they are better supported in linux then your setup.

     

    Post edited by Cederien on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Cederien said:

    While I decided on an Intel (8720k) just to be on the safe side (everything, i.e. iray and cpu opencl, worked out of the box btw., just had to update the intel opencl in wine) I had the opportunity to play around with the Threatripper system of a friend last weekend. So I cloned my Arch install to an external drive. Had to setup a new wine flask (installing the AMD opencl alongside the intel one seems not to work well), but otherwise, following morks instructions I got AMD CPU opencl to work on that Threatripper system just fine. No idea on GPU Iray as my friend has a Radeon Card.

    Not sure what's so particular problematic with your system Gaff (or at what point you might have messed up), but I doubt it's due to your hardware being to new. Threatripper and the X399 platform should be newer and likely much less common, so I doubt they are better supported in linux then your setup.

     

    Hardware being too new? - not really at this point, not a year after purchase

    At this point the only thing I could try is to re-install Arch from scratch see if that helps - I've absolutely no idea at this point why Wine is not seeing the CPU as a valid OpenCL device, and hence why Daz can't do dForce. The Nvidia GPU is identified, but that's not working either as either an OpenCL device for dForce nor an option for rendering.

  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,215

    Has anyone written a guide to getting DS set up on Linux? I know no single solution is going to work for everyone, but I just need something to point me in the right direction. I'm planning to try setting up DS this weekend. Last time, I got DS running but no GPU support for iray. I didn't even try dforce.

     
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