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Genesis 3 bones

SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
in New Users

I see that G3F has a separate bone for bends and twists in the limbs. Why? It real life you just have a forearm and it can twist or bend. That how it works in all other figures. So why make two bones in G3?

It's not even as though they have limited the controls to match, since you can still twist the "forearm bend" bone?!

Comments

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    It is a limitation of the weight map system Genesis 3 uses.  The extra bones are slave bones and really should not be manipulated separately.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    jestmart said:

    It is a limitation of the weight map system Genesis 3 uses.  The extra bones are slave bones and really should not be manipulated separately.

    Ah.. thanks for that. So I should just use "foream" "shin" etc as before.

    cool 

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Sertorial said:
    jestmart said:

    It is a limitation of the weight map system Genesis 3 uses.  The extra bones are slave bones and really should not be manipulated separately.

    Ah.. thanks for that. So I should just use "foream" "shin" etc as before.

    cool 

    Yes.

    But there is one other thing that the 'sibling' bones are good for/precursor for...a muscle system.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,792
    Sertorial said:

    I see that G3F has a separate bone for bends and twists in the limbs. Why? It real life you just have a forearm and it can twist or bend. That how it works in all other figures. So why make two bones in G3?

    It's not even as though they have limited the controls to match, since you can still twist the "forearm bend" bone?!

    It isn't quite true that your forearm can twist or bend - the bend is done by hinging at the elbow, the twisting by rotating the two long bones realtive to each other so it has the biggest effect at the wrist; as a result the deformation for bending is pretty much confined to the elbow (the long bones do slide past each other a bit, but it isn't really noticeable) while the deformation of the twist is spread all along the forearm. Since G3F is using only a single weight-map per bone reproducing the two different kinds of deformation requires a bone for bend and a separate bone for twist.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited August 2015
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Sertorial said:

    I see that G3F has a separate bone for bends and twists in the limbs. Why? It real life you just have a forearm and it can twist or bend. That how it works in all other figures. So why make two bones in G3?

    It's not even as though they have limited the controls to match, since you can still twist the "forearm bend" bone?!

    It isn't quite true that your forearm can twist or bend - the bend is done by hinging at the elbow, the twisting by rotating the two long bones realtive to each other so it has the biggest effect at the wrist; as a result the deformation for bending is pretty much confined to the elbow (the long bones do slide past each other a bit, but it isn't really noticeable) while the deformation of the twist is spread all along the forearm. Since G3F is using only a single weight-map per bone reproducing the two different kinds of deformation requires a bone for bend and a separate bone for twist.

    Sorry, you have lost me in technical details there.

    Whatever the "under the bonnet" reasons DAZ may have for this, I don't need to have to think or care about those. The bottom line for the workflow is that when posing, I only want to have to select each limb part (shin, thigh etc) and then make the various changes in the parameters tab (bend, twist etc), as in previous versions of Studio. I don't want to have to faff about thinking about a separate bone for each motion. So I am at a loss as to why they added these in the scene tab. It just clutters things up to no useful purpose. And since the "forearm twist" bone, for example, also duplicates the "bend" operation anyway (and the "forearm bend" bone duplicates the "twist" operation) it makes you wonder what would happen if you dialled in conflicting bends in that bone and the forearm bend bone! Presumably one would just indo the action of the other? There's clear duplication here. Seems unnecesarily complex to me. 

    bend.JPG
    1678 x 770 - 143K
    twist.JPG
    1660 x 832 - 145K
    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    I am pretty sure you cannot select them from the viewport and I am also puzzled why they aren't hidden like the facial expression bones are.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    jestmart said:

    I am pretty sure you cannot select them from the viewport and I am also puzzled why they aren't hidden like the facial expression bones are.

    I wasn't selecting them from the viewport. I was selecting them from the scene tab

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