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How do you make normal maps?

nabob21nabob21 Posts: 942
in The Commons

Hello,

Can anyone point me to a good tutorial on how you would go about making a normal map, or how to edit an existing one? I have several credit card props that I have aquired over time and I would like to edit the names that are on them. I can easily do that for the texture map but how do I edit the (blue) normal map that comes with the card? They seem to have a particular way that they are made and I would like to know how to do that.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

nabob21

Comments

  • TomCatOliverTomCatOliver Posts: 195

    You could try Materialize. It's free, and will let you generate a height/bump map from the diffuse map, then a normal map from the height.

    https://boundingboxsoftware.com/materialize/

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,303

    There's also NormalMap-Online (cpetry.github.io)

     

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,047
    edited October 2022

    I like Materialize too (use TomCatOliver's link above)... here are some tutorials
     

    This guy usually explains stuff pretty well...

    About the seamless tile feature...

    And finally this one which is a bit more in depth...

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,047

    There is also AwesomeBump... https://github.com/kmkolasinski/AwesomeBump

    I used to use it, it's comparable to Materialize, but I like Materialize's GUI better.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,478

    McGyver said:

    I like Materialize too (use TomCatOliver's link above)... here are some tutorials
     

    This guy usually explains stuff pretty well...

     

    I LOVE watching that guy. The moment he starts the introduction I burst out laughing - can't help it. And that hat has already tickled my funny bone before he opens his mouth.

    That said - once I get over my hilarity I enjoy his tutorials. He's very good.

  • CHWTCHWT Posts: 1,171
    I use GIMP, it has a normal map function. Flip the Y axis if you convert from a bump map
  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    Usually what you'll need to do is to take the model itself into a modeling program, add the details to the model itself by sculpting them, and then create a new normal map by following the modeling program's process for baking them (i.e. processing the model's information into the correct format for export as a map). If all you want is raised letters, though, you could maybe get away with using a bump or displacement map, especially since cards are so small. All you need for that is a version of the texture that's white wherever you want a raised appearance, and black where you don't (the attached example is the black and white image used as the bump map on a plane primitive).

    WP Guru and Sickleyield both have videos on creating/using normal maps in Daz that might be helpful.  

    testing2.png
    2304 x 1545 - 793K
    testing.png
    512 x 512 - 7K
  • ChumlyChumly Posts: 793

    Great thread... lots to digest!
    Thanks everybody (OP for the question, and all the Posts with answers/comments/links)!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,003

    I have the very handy and discontinued Inagoni Baker for Carrara that will render normal maps on any model, 8K+ too

    Carrara itself will render scenes as normal maps 

    DAZ should with Canvases but I only get black exr files on both computers despite everyone else saying it works for them, Octane works

  • nabob21nabob21 Posts: 942

    Thank you everyone for the very helpful suggestions, links and advice. This will keep me busy for a while!

  • kevphilkevphil Posts: 44
    edited July 24

    plasma_ring said:

    Usually what you'll need to do is to take the model itself into a modeling program, add the details to the model itself by sculpting them, and then create a new normal map by following the modeling program's process for baking them (i.e. processing the model's information into the correct format for export as a map). If all you want is raised letters, though, you could maybe get away with using a bump or displacement map, especially since cards are so small. All you need for that is a version of the texture that's white wherever you want a raised appearance, and black where you don't (the attached example is the black and white image used as the bump map on a plane primitive).

    WP Guru and Sickleyield both have videos on creating/using normal maps in Daz that might be helpful.  

    Your comments are actually the most useful here: Thanks!

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • AmaranthAmaranth Posts: 414

    maybe you downloaded this around Christmas but I found it very useful already

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/87462/start

  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 594

    Amaranth said:

    maybe you downloaded this around Christmas but I found it very useful already

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/87462/start

    Santa's Normal Maker was a holiday freebie in December 2022 when I snatched it into my cart.  I don't know if it was available as a freebie last year.  Hopefully, it will be a freebie this year for those who want it.

  • ElorElor Posts: 1,047
    edited July 24

    jjoyner said:

    I don't know if it was available as a freebie last year.

    I don't think it was.

    This year, @Totte gifted us a stripping script freebie:

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/92437/start

    Post edited by Elor on
  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 594

    I threw the Code66 Christmas Toolbox into my cart last December as well.   :)

  • TotteTotte Posts: 13,828

    jjoyner said:

    Amaranth said:

    maybe you downloaded this around Christmas but I found it very useful already

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/87462/start

    Santa's Normal Maker was a holiday freebie in December 2022 when I snatched it into my cart.  I don't know if it was available as a freebie last year.  Hopefully, it will be a freebie this year for those who want it.

    Old christmas freebees are forever dead, but I think it would be a good thing to "revitalize" old christmas freebees, otherwise I can probably add it to toolbox or something as it's great and I use it alot myself. (did it because I needed it)
     

     

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,119

    I don't see a problem converting a conventional bump map to normal as a quick and dirty way to get improved surface effect in some cases - A normal map is an improved bump map, basically. It's not a displacement map - it doesn't distort the actual geometry. If you can make the normal map from actual 3D geometry, that's a big plus - I would expect a better result. It's just not always possible. Of course, the other part of that is, just like lots of elements of texturing (especially with Poser & Daz items), sometimes bump maps are wrong - the greyscale values may be wrong because sometimes bump maps are (or historically have been) made from processing diffuse color maps into bump maps. That's a different problem, but one that should be considered when converting bump maps to normal maps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,075

    A bump map is turned into a normal map, in effect, when used - the engine uses the height information to calculate new surface normals and then sues them as it would the normal vectors set directly in a normal map.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,119
    edited July 25

    Richard Haseltine said:

    A bump map is turned into a normal map, in effect, when used - the engine uses the height information to calculate new surface normals and then sues them as it would the normal vectors set directly in a normal map.

    Except that, in practice, bump maps sometimes really suck! Normal maps tend to do a better job. Just sayin'. And there is even a technical reason why. The bumpmap is a greyscale that says "height is *this*" in a top-down fashion whereas the normal map is the result of compiling the effect of 4 colored lights to get the information. That makes the normal map look weird as well as prividing fuller, richer depth information to get a better final result.

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • ElorElor Posts: 1,047

    Totte said:

    Old christmas freebees are forever dead, but I think it would be a good thing to "revitalize" old christmas freebees, otherwise I can probably add it to toolbox or something as it's great and I use it alot myself. (did it because I needed it)

    I don't know what the rules are between PAs and Daz regarding christmas freebies, but AprilYSH and Sickleyield shared some of them either through their own website or an third party one (and it was like Christmas all over again when I found them blushlaugh)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,075

    Torquinox said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    A bump map is turned into a normal map, in effect, when used - the engine uses the height information to calculate new surface normals and then sues them as it would the normal vectors set directly in a normal map.

    Except that, in practice, bump maps sometimes really suck! Normal maps tend to do a better job.

    I was referring specif8ically to turning an existing bump map into a normal map.

    Just sayin'. And there is even a technical reason why. The bumpmap is a greyscale that says "height is *this*" in a top-down fashion whereas the normal map is the result of compiling the effect of 4 colored lights to get the information. That makes the normal map look weird as well as prividing fuller, richer depth information to get a better final result.

    A normal maps has nothing to do with illuminating the model - it is using the three colour channels to encode the three spatial dimensions of a unit vector (square the colour values divided by 255 and add them up, they will come to 1 - hence determing a normal, a unit vector) that in one  way or another specify the direction in which the surface should be treated as facing when calculating illumination.

     

  • zombiewhackerzombiewhacker Posts: 680

    A tutorial about baking out normal maps in Blender:

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