Pro Beta crashes????
CAV_18687
Posts: 77
I'm having extremely regular crashes on 420 Beta, is anybody else experiencing this? Or better, has anybody had this happen and fixed it?
To give more detail, it seems pretty random at the moment, in that I have noticed that some bigger files struggle to render as compared to performance in Daz 420 Pro, but aside from that files of any size are causing Daz to show the little white error box and it shuts down. Most annoying is that little details like my 'Scripts' menu disappear so I have to create/build it again for my workflow. On occassion it even completyely changes my layout back to default, although this didn't happen the last plethora of times. This is currently happening multiple times some days as I fight to keep it going.
Oh and finally, without getting into a urination slinging contest, it definitely shouldnt be my system, its relatively new, and of a decent spec'...
Any comments would help, any solution would be a blessing, I'm having to seriously look at how feasible my workflow is if this keeps happening and I don't want to change if possible...
Many Thanks
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Comments
What does "decent spec" mean?
There should be minimum 32GB's of RAM and the supported Nvidia GPU should have 8GB's or more of VRAM.
What security software are you running - the resetting layout and loss of custom actions sound as if soemthing may be getting in the way there, and if so it may be interferring in other aspects causing your stability issues.
'decent spec' means that too often I read these threads and quoting your spec results in a chain of people quoting their spec and lack or presence thereof any problems that may or do arise, in turn creating unnecessary reading to the problem at hand. So, I simply asked the reader to trust that my specification is definitely not the problem, as my computer is very adequate specification wise for its usage and my ability, in fact I have headroom to explore 3D work much further than I am currently, that was actualy the plan i.e. not to run out of computer as soon as I develop any decent level of work in simple terms.
Security software, just Windows essentials currently, I was told that these days its good enough. I actually have a paid subscription to McAfee, but they repeat billed me 3 times the original price over a year before my contract ended, so i kinda spat my dummy out and refused to use them! Should I in fact be using this??? I've basically ended up with 2 subscriptions in that sitch.
OR more to the point, what security would you recommend? My computer is not registering any threats or issues in reliability monitor. Also, Daz Studio Pro is running perfectly fine, never has the issue, and actually renders files that BETA seems not to like! - with zero problems!
Anyhow, I'll repeat that its not always these bigger files that BETA doesnt like, it can happen with a single character scene albeit with a lot of morphs and stacking of content....
Thank you so much for the replies folks...
If it's only the beta then the suspicion would be a setting or settings, a driver conflict of some kind (depending on your precise version you may have different Iray builds in each, if you are using the Iray preview mode), or possibly some issue related to the settings files or folders (e.g. permissions) - which would also gibe with the loss of UI settings.
Sorry, allow me to expand on the above - in reliability monitor there are 13 listed occasions (in as many days) of BETA closing unexpectedly. It simply says 'stopped responding and was closed' each time.
Above I was referring to the registry editor, nothing seems to be mentioned there, but Im certainly no dynamo at these things...
If it happens again in the next couple of days I'll look into any logs further, so any direction as to where I should be looking would be brilliant???...
Thank You
Do you get the crash report dialogue, which offers to save a zip with some information, or does it go straight to desktop?
Just on the 'decent spec' topic, I first flirted with Daz many years ago, on computers that were less than suitable and didnt suffer as many random unexpected closes. Also, recently I had a laptop that was barely suitable, yet didn't suffer this problem - that had the above mentioned 32GB's of RAM but in fact worked fine for quite a while with only 16GB. GPU wise it only had 6GB and is still operational for tasks when im 'going wild' and spreading my limited ability too thin accross multiple instances of DAZ 3D! Haha...
My point here being that the laptop didnt suffer the problem I'm having now, working on scenes of similar complexity. Anyhow, the current system is a massively exponential improvement on that laptop, so obviously I want to get to the bottom of why my workflow is suffering these random closes of BETA. The only pattern here is that rendering scenes that have a lot of cameras loaded in almost certainly causes closure, however this is NOT the only time, after that happened twice when I started logging (after probably twice before that, so only 4 of the 13) I just made sure I was using 420PRO for the scenes and BETA for single character development, but the problem here is that I shouldn't really be needing to make such a distinction, since as I say, my extremely similar workflow was fine on the laptop without making concessions...
Sorry, I do harp on....
Any help would be great...
Thank You
The only information we have, is what one with a problem tells us and with the questions we ask, we are trying to eliminate possible and/or known causes for problems.
We don't know, what is anybody's idea of 'decent spec' unless the one with the problem tells us but we have seen cases where someone thought they had a decent spec system, when in fact it wasn't.
I'm out
Wow, thank you so much for this guys, yes, sorry I didnt mean to hit a nerve with the spec thing, I guess it's a pet hate when a thread delves off into peoples unrelated experiences just because spec is a nice topic to keyboard waggle about, i do apologise if it seemed I was moaning about your attempt to help. So sorry!... Please don't judge me in future on that comment, just feel cheated when I read a big list of peoples 'spec' talk when its completely unrelated, then the thread has gone off on another tangent, never to return to the matter at hand and you spend ages reading it all in the hope of the problem coming back into the chat...
With regard to the crash report dialogue, I think that is what I referred to as the little white close screen or something equally rudimentary! So yes, I do get that, only Ive never done more than click 'close', im assumi9ng then that at that point I can get a ZIP. So next time I need to get that and show it here do I?
Again, many thanks, in time Im sure I will develop better thread etiquette and be able to express these things more clearly...
Also, amazing response time guys, Im so greatful, unfortunately I was on my way out when I last typed (or you know, rounding work things up to go out) so thats why I checked again only now...
Yes, the crash dialogue should have a button to save the report as a zip.
cool, thanks so much, I'll do that next time for sure! As sods law book 11, Ch 214 verse 2973 says though, after 13 days of crashes, I'll bet it doesn't do it right away! But next time I'll definitely get the ZIP!
Cheers Richard...
DS 4.20.1.58 Beta works fine for me, so there is not a universal problem with it. I'll refrain from giving my specs, since that seems to offend you.
Your unwillingness to give any specific information is what causes people to harp on "specs". People will either keep asking or just go away. Without computer specs including system RAM size, GPU model, graphics card driver version number and DS log file info, we have nothing to go on to help you. So, I'm out with PerttiA.
Cool, well I know that now, but really to a relative newbie, its super frustrating when you google for help topics and have to spend an hour sifting through people going off point because they saw a spec mentioned so think up a reason to chirp in with theirs. I really do apologise, I mean you've threw your hat into this, after I apologised profusely for the misjudgement on my part. SORRY! Like totally, really, SORRY MAN! My apologies are actual and not false!
I mean well this has ended up something of a spec talk spin off and imagine how frustrating my million words and ten apologies are to somebody who sees this on google (or favourite search
) when they're having a similar issue!!!
Like come on, all I did was try to avoid it becoming a spec in the ring dance off, because my issue shouldn't be spec' related, massively because I didn't have the issue on a lesser system. But nonetheless, I shouldn't have said it that way, and its an etiquette lesson for me, i thought my ex-wife was touchy about personal spec issues, but was happy to pull me up on mine! If that attempted humour doesn't resolve this judgement of me, then I'll have to say I'm out as well will I? Ive got no friends to say i'm out with yet, Richard seems pretty cool though... Give a fledgling a break please dudes...
And thank you for the advice, its on board, the list of relevant info is great, is that the driver number for the GPU please?
Yes, graphics card driver. I updated my message above to add that clarity. Lots of people here are willing to help new people. People with problems need to reply with answers to the questions helpers ask, or the helper has nothing to go on. Maybe specs are not your problem, but they often are, so specs need to be discussed and possibly eliminated early on. Also include the exact Daz Studio version you are using. You can find that in Help>About Daz Studio. 4.20 is not specific enough. We are looking for all 4 values, like 4.20.1.58, or whichever version you have.
Thank You so much, honestly the community at Daz is one of the reasons I'm delving further into the software, or at least strongly supports that decision. So, RAM size, GPU model, graphics card driver version number and DS log file info...
Yes, I've definitely missed the boat on gathering the Log File info, but that's what I'll do in future, including asking for the ZIP when the crash dialogue appears.
That said, do the log files go back kind of eternally if you don't clear them? What is best practice for this please? (Im piecing together things I've read here, so all education around this is more then welcome and appreciated greatly...
Thank You
Just on the subject of specs, and not to nit pick at all, but spec is always a potential problem! I do get that, all it was that in this case (and I now know that I put this across in a completely banal/coarse fashion
), I knew it shouldn't be, due to the complexity of my work not being particularly different to what I'd been doing on a surpar system that didn't suffer the regular crashes with two instances of Daz open and one in iray preview, the other in filament. Had that 32GB RAM, GTX 1660ti[6GB] system (Ryzen7 8core CPU) not been fine operating in exactly the same (well, in fact, closely/similar structured files and settings) workflow, then I would have put it down to the two instances of Daz being too much for the computer to handle, so to speak... That was actually with a laptop GPU as well, so you really can toy with most features of Daz to a degree with quite modest hardware, which is brilliant. That laptop was a higher end of entry level gaming spec at best, perhaps lowest ebb of mid-range once I upgrded the RAM and storage.
However, as per advice from Jay V on his videos (although perhaps he meant with a better computer than my laptop), I was fine even rendering in iray in DazPro 420, whilst tweaking a scene in BETA for my next render, believe it or not with only a GTX 1660ti/32GB RAM (even with 16GB RAM before I upgraded that), however 80% of these crashes occured in 'non-complex tasking', that is to say, nothing that wasn't handled by the lesser system.
So I guess what I'm wondering now, is how far two instances of Daz being open can be pushed without expecting a crash? Perhaps that's something I should put to the forum?
Thank You for your time, everybody who has read this!...
So far you have given no real information to work with.
1. How did you install the versions of DS, the non-beta and beta versions and where are they installed?
2. System specs, how much RAM, which GPU, which GPU drivers?
3 Which operating system?
4. What does the log (of the beta version) say? (help->troubleshooting->view log file), do not copy the text inside the log to the message area, but attach the txt file to your post with "Attach a file" above "Post comment" button
In general these forums are different from say, average gaming forums. People hanging here tend to be in the 60 +/-20 year age range (as far as I have noticed), people that can have decades of experience in arts and/or computers
Cool, thank you, and its the first time I've used a forum, period, so I've put it down to a bad start and my character is refreshed for the future. Right, problem here is, I've now subsequently used BETA incessantly since the last crash and between crashes (I do mean for a full working day, every day) so the log files, I assume will be super crammed of all the info in between? Sorry this is also the first time I've bothered to actually look at what might be going on.
So, as stated and so its all in one messsage, I had 13 closures in as many days (as per reliability monitor, 4 could potentially be put down to iray preview use in two instances of Daz, one each PRO and BETA, and like I say, As per Jay V Youtube advice (good advice) I have always been able to use PRO, say to render in iray, therefore certainly to prieview in iray, whilst in BETA I tweak another scene or character in filament or cartoon shaded/smooth shaded. This was fine and seldom if ever caused crashes on a 32GB RAM, 1660ti system. That system actually surpassesd my expectation as to what it could render, even though sometimes I would use just one instance of DAZ with no other programmes running in order to be able to render a more complex scene. Nonetheless 'it got there' to a moderately workable extent. And more importantly and noteworthy for this thread, it seldom resulted in random closing down of BETA.
Now, I'll answer in order of your list, thank you so much, that helped me get my head around this message structure...
1. I installed both versions of DS with DIM, they are on drive C, which is a 2TB Samsung 980 PRO (I was told that this is the fastest SSD in practice so bought it over some of the more recent ones that quote higher numbers, eg. Firecuda etc).
2. My current system is 64GB of DDR5 RAM, Intel i9-12900K CPU (16core 24thread), 2 x RTX 3090, a Gigabyte Gaming OC and a PAlIT Gamerock. It's noteworthy that the only reason the CPU isnt a KS is because the power draw is excessive versus level of performance and the graphics cards aren't 3090Ti's for the same reason, also size and thermals, since I will at some point upgrade to a 4090 with at least one of the 3090's, however my motherboard (Asus Z690 ProArt Creator) does support 3. I have a 1600W power supply to this end, plenty of fans and a spacious tower for airflow with a 420mm radiator and space enough for water cooling (I think, but hope I don't need to, since so far the 3090's seem a great choice as they simply aren't getting as hot as I might have expected with 2 in there, also the CPU [whose architecture must be approaching the end of a half centennial run], are known to generate extreme temps, so i'm over the moon with the comparatively effortless kick of the 3090's). Amazing kit they are, I bleat about this because I almost went for 2 3080's but I now realise why the 3090 is so much better as a creator weapon.
3. Im on Windows 10, however i'm not a Windows fan, should I stay or should I go??? Daz is to be my main hub for 3D characters so I just want whatever Daz is compatible with at the moment... I suppose creative cloud and zbrush will also command a lot of my time.
4. As stated above, Ive used BETA incessantly since and between all 13 crashes, is the log file still any good, the last crash was at 06:38 on the 23rd, so some 30+ hours ago...
Absolutely any advice on how I should be monitoring these log files and absolutely anything else I should be looking at would be priceless....
Thank you so much for your time...
PS. Im 42 myself so your user demographic assessment fits my bill too...
The practical system requirements for working with DS have increased during the last two years, by DS itself, by Nvidia's changes to Iray and also by the assets using more resources, so whatever worked in the past, may not work that good anymore, but your system is good.
Im still on W7 Ultimate as I don't like where MS is going with their newer OS's, W10 is fine.
The log does have a size limit, but until that limit is reached, everything is still there. If you want to reduce the size/information, pick a date that had crashes and delete the previous lines.
One way to eliminate problems caused by the GPU drivers, is to try older/different ones, the oldest drivers supported do support the 3090 too, so there is plenty of choice, from 471.41 to current, except the ones between 496.xx to 510.xx
I remember there were some driver related problems not more than couple of months ago, when using the 'latest' GPU drivers.
The recomended place to download Nvidia drivers; https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx
Yes I'm keen to develop my knowledge to the point where I know the intricacies you speak of better than I do now, so thank you, that's really helpful info, and my current stance is that when the problem surfaces again I will get the ZIP file and also track it down and familiarise myself with the Log info around the occurence, plus if it's soon I'll add it to this thread. When I joked about sods law being such that it wont happen again quickly, its actually been the longest time between crashes for the whole two weeks and I've been running multiple Daz scenes through both instances, so fingers crossed, and now, thanks to this help, I am better equipped to Log and investigate this next time.
Yes I had no aspirations to convert to Windows 11, I suppose it means I'm kinda stuck with 10 but I don't know enough to instigate change eitherway, especially since I was a Mac user from 2011-2020 anyway. I actually first started DAZ with 3Delight and CPU only rendering on a Mac Mini, kind of in tandem with a HP Pavillion laptop of those days... Didn't even know what a graphics card truly was back then!!!
Also, I'm going to see if the log file can be married up with the times and dates in reliability monitor later tonight, not sure if the log will go back far enough now, but as I say, I'm 100% better equipped to look into this now...
Thanks again, this has all been a great help...
You can access the log file in Help>Troubleshooting>View Log File... It will open in your default text editor (probably Notepad). You can save the log file and attach the files to the forum with the Attach a File link, when you see that it has useful information corresponding to a crash.. Each log entry will be time stamped, so you should easily be able to see if the dates in the log file correspond to the reliability monitor crash records.
There have been reports in the forum from people having problems with Daz Studio and two 3090 cards installed. I think the issues were that only one card would be used, instead of both, but I didn't pay close attention, because I don't have even one 3090 card.
There is a general recommendation that you should have between 2-3 times as much system RAM as GPU RAM for Iray rendering. Do you have your two 3090s in NVLINK, giving you a combined 48 GB of GPU RAM with memory pooling? If so, I wonder if "only" 64 GB of system RAM is enough. Again, I have no personal experience with a configuration like this, so I am just throwing out ideas for you to research and consider.
Another thing to consider when comparing your old configuration to your new configuration is whether you are positive that the laptop was actually using the GPU for all that work. It may likely have fallen back to CPU in some cases. Do you have CPU fallback enabled on your new system now? If not, try enabling it (in Render Settings).
This is all exactly the stuff I want and need accross the board, I did research such things before compiling the system. I don't currently have them in NVLink and was aware of the rule of thumb regarding RAM. For anybodys refrerence who might think of such a build, a big difficulty (though not insurmountable) around NV Link is lining up the bridge since its completely rigid and as far as I'm aware you can't get flexible ones like the older 1000 series SLI (please advise if anybody knows differently) . I got the Gigabyte card because of this position as it looks identical to the blower version and I require at least one 2 slot card if I put 3 in. Anyhow I'm just saying this so somebody can investigate that avenue before they start buying graphics cards, riser cables and adequate space are otherwise needed to line up 2 cards that are not compatible in this sense, obviously ideal advice is to have 2 of the exact same card, yet this has been very difficult in relatively recent times.. 2 keywords Pricing and Availability!!!
Anyhow, performance here isn't so much the problem as the random crashes. Render wise the system has blown my mind, firstly because I'd never had a decent card for 3D art, but secondly because the second card did in fact cause an exponential increase in render performance i.e. twice the speed @ twice the power at a glance, and in fact the cards actually didn't have to work as hard to achieve this, leaving more room for overclocking if ever necessary (frankly I'm happy to hum along at the current constant for a stable system that will last as a render machine even when I expand). Obviously having a second card in the PCIe slot futher away from the processor decreases its available performance but I wasn't disappointed in any fashion at all, in fact if the science wasn't matter of fact, I'd actually doubt it. Thats how good we are talking render wise. My benchmarks are irrelevant to other situations and scenes, but for the record, it was 17.5 times faster at rendering the same scene as the old set up, so a 3 hour render took only 10 minutes (ballpark here, accurate times are irrelevant without knowing the exact scene etc etc). It was then 35 times faster than the old system with the second card in play (which was recognised by Daz from the off), taking only 5 minutes. Interestingly, the Gamerock is a 3 x 8 pin connector, the Gigabyte OC a 2x 8 pin, and the Gamerock perfromed to the EXACT same time at rendering this scene as the Gigabyte OC, so the none-OC extra 8 pin connector card, matched the OC card with a time that was precisely the same. This was with each card in PCIe slot 1 (nearest the CPU).
Oh incidentally, aside from the fancy colours making the Gamerock great for a future gaming build for my kids when I have the hardware to give it up, I fancied a none OC card since you can do that reasonably easily yourself and currently that card runs at a lower temp and simply just works less hard, despite its equal render performance (so very interesting indeed)...
Right so that's just in case it helps anybody thinking of a similar system, but heres the niggle I've got/am having... (plus that's a rough guide, however that was my thought process and what I did as I was installing and testing the cards).
So yes I had the 13 crashes in now 14 days (after a couple of months of things being fine), but also, I know the cards are working, I know 2 in tandem increases performance dramatically without an NVLink in place yet, I know I can render a scene with just one card checked in an instance of Daz and still have the other perform really well at other tasks (please note these crashes are NOT when I do this as a matter of course, in fact no more than 2 of them, I've only just started incorporating that method into the project I'm doing, so none of the early crashes could even have done that without me remembering or realising, I simply wasn't configuring my system that way Or rendering in that manner at all.... Moreover in addition to this, viewport performance in iray preview has far from impressed me, despite me playing with the preferences and settings etc. therefore compared to rendering that increase in performance is extremely minimal, granted I have much further testing to do on that front. Advice on more in depth ways of improving the viewport would be sooooooo welcome please!!!???
With regard to the RAM, it's possible for me to upgrade to 128GB, but honestly, my performance monitor isn't displaying a need for this just yet, although if and when it does I will upgrade (however there are some complexities with DDR5 RAM at higher end speeds on multi-functional motherboards, so for now I'm happier to have 64GB (supposedly!!!) stable @ 5200mhz.
So just to summarise and reiterate, it isn't the actual performace as such, simply that the old system didn't suffer these random crashes depite having its proverbial back literally ripped out of it on an hourly, daily, weekly, monthly basis, that was the reason I was quoting that system, because it was actually quite stable and believe me, I hammered the poor thing into oblivion!!! It still fixed up and runs fine for extra tasks if needed. Finally (after many additions to this text), its definitely worth saying that a lot of the characters and Art I'm working on right now, is from content bought and used on that system, in fact at least 33% of my 'Daz' time is spent on the same arc of my work... 100% is spent on work that was born of that content and arc, albeit it with finer complexity options...
Thank you once more for your time and support on this matter...
This community is outstanding....