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Modeling how skin curves or mushrooms around objects (Lady bound and tied).

jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711
edited August 2022 in The Commons

Hello,

I know that some articles of clothing have morphs that allow more of a relistic look by showing the pressure exerted on the skin.   Many Lingerie items are designed like this and leather outfits as well.  However, it is usually based on the artist that designed the article of clothing whether or not they include a pressure induced morph.    But what about articles of clothing that don't have the morph?   Or another scenario, what about a person tied up in ropes like this:

(Image removed by Mod per ToS)

How does one show the pressure the rope is exerting on the model's arms, such as shown here on the woman's upper arms?   Is that something that could be done in Daz or do you need an outside program, such as Blender to create this effect?

Thank you,

Geo

Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on

Comments

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,169

    If morphs like that already exist, they would need to be included with the rope/bond props that they are meant for, because a creator can't anticipate all the possible configurations. SickleYield has a series of pose/prop sets to restrain figures in various ways, but I don't know if they include morphs. I have some bondage morphs in my runtime that I think were a freebie somewhere, and I assume there are props that accompany them, but I couldn't point to them off the top of my head.

    If you wanted to do this yourself, yes, you would need Blender or another modeling app, but you would be stuck with base resolution if you wanted to bring them back into DS. Another option would be to use displacement maps, so you could export your tied model to Blender and paint displacement (negative where the ropes are, positive just outside the ropes, neutral elsewhere), then plug that into the displacement slots on your figure in DS.

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    Gordig said:

    If morphs like that already exist, they would need to be included with the rope/bond props that they are meant for, because a creator can't anticipate all the possible configurations. SickleYield has a series of pose/prop sets to restrain figures in various ways, but I don't know if they include morphs. I have some bondage morphs in my runtime that I think were a freebie somewhere, and I assume there are props that accompany them, but I couldn't point to them off the top of my head.

    If you wanted to do this yourself, yes, you would need Blender or another modeling app, but you would be stuck with base resolution if you wanted to bring them back into DS. Another option would be to use displacement maps, so you could export your tied model to Blender and paint displacement (negative where the ropes are, positive just outside the ropes, neutral elsewhere), then plug that into the displacement slots on your figure in DS.

    Yeah, that was what I feared.  It seemed like if the artist didn't provide the micro-pressure morphs for their product, then it cannot be done in an easy manner.   As I mentioned, the thought of exporting it to Blender did cross my mind, but I am not very adept with the program as of yet, hence why I asked if this could be done in Daz.

    Thanks!

    Geo

  • felisfelis Posts: 4,603

    If the ropes are a product, they either would be clipping with the arm, if no pressure morphs, or they would be on the skin, and then you would need to adjust the ropes too if they were to be pressed into the skin.

  • 3dLux3dLux Posts: 1,231

    If there are no morphs with the ropes, then the presure can be done in Daz with these products:

    https://www.daz3d.com/ghost-dynamics  (on sale atm)

    https://www.daz3d.com/grasp-helper-for-genesis-8-and-genesis-81  (if you want to make a character grasp something)

    or if you're feeling adventurous:  https://www.daz3d.com/mesh-grabber-win (Mac version available separately) (I use this a lot for fixing clipping)

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,852
    Another way, long slow and frustrating, might be to use the old dForm magnets. You shape the area of influence, then move the influenced vertices by scaling, rotating or translating them. This doesn't seem to have changed since the dForm plugin was released for DS 1.x, so is a bit, err, primitive and hit or miss, shall we say. But it can work without any modelling input or the painful release of money, either. Regards, Richard.
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,218

    richardandtracy said:

    Another way, long slow and frustrating, might be to use the old dForm magnets. You shape the area of influence, then move the influenced vertices by scaling, rotating or translating them. This doesn't seem to have changed since the dForm plugin was released for DS 1.x, so is a bit, err, primitive and hit or miss, shall we say. But it can work without any modelling input or the painful release of money, either. Regards, Richard.

    dForms have gained the ability to take weight maps, but they will still have the same limits from mesh resolution as morphs.

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    3dLux said:

    If there are no morphs with the ropes, then the presure can be done in Daz with these products:

    https://www.daz3d.com/ghost-dynamics  (on sale atm)

    https://www.daz3d.com/grasp-helper-for-genesis-8-and-genesis-81  (if you want to make a character grasp something)

    or if you're feeling adventurous:  https://www.daz3d.com/mesh-grabber-win (Mac version available separately) (I use this a lot for fixing clipping)

    The ghost dynamics look pretty good, but can you use outside items to control the impressions?   I could see uses for the Grasp Helper as well.   I already have Mesh Grabber and it is an invaluable tool, but for something like this, the process is tedious and long.  I was looking for something that would react with an object, like if someone sits down on a sofa, that the body would make a conforming impression.  It does seem like Ghost Dynamics would do that.

    Thanks,

    Geo

  • 3dLux3dLux Posts: 1,231

    Grasp Helper only works with having a character grasping an object/another character’s body part and is not suitable for what you envision.

    If you want to use an outside object, then you don’t need ghost dynamics:  you can use an outside object and have the figure collide with that.  Making the outside object a ghost is another matter altogether, one that I have no experience with.

    One of the sets in Ghost Dynamics can be used to create indentation that ropes would:

    Here are some forum links on Ghost Dynamics for more information: 

    Are the promotions for Ghost Dynamics composites or single renders?

    About Ghost Dynamics

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711
    edited September 2022

    Why was my image removed from the first post?

    Post edited by jukingeo on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,218

    Because the image was not suitable for the forums.

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Because the image was not suitable for the forums.

    Posting a person tied up is all of a sudden against the rules?!?

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,550

    either way you are restricted by base res, unless you export under subd and reimport subdivided mesh for more geometry. 

    Can also set figure and rope to collide using smoothing modifier collision rather than sculpting, but not sure how well that would work. 

    can also probably do collision in Blender i assume, rather than sculpting.  Probably best to do rope in blender too while at it.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,837

    You could possibly use dForce. Add dynamic dForce modifier to figure. Set gravity to 0. If ropes are siting on the figure already, set a key frame at frame 0 for the figure. Then at frame 5 or 10 scale the ropes to 95-98% (enough to sink in but not too far). If lopes are already embedded in the skin that may be ok, if not scale them latger at frame 0 scale rope so at frame 0 it is outside the skin. You may have to show hidden properties (from submenu on Properties pane) to see the scale parameter. 

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    RGcincy said:

    You could possibly use dForce. Add dynamic dForce modifier to figure. Set gravity to 0. If ropes are siting on the figure already, set a key frame at frame 0 for the figure. Then at frame 5 or 10 scale the ropes to 95-98% (enough to sink in but not too far). If lopes are already embedded in the skin that may be ok, if not scale them latger at frame 0 scale rope so at frame 0 it is outside the skin. You may have to show hidden properties (from submenu on Properties pane) to see the scale parameter. 

    I would think that dForce or using some sort of 'collision' method would be better.  While I will try the method described above, I would need you to dictate it step by step and where everything is.  While I am quite a bit beyond a beginner with Daz, I am VERY far from a 'power user.

    Thanks!

    lilweep said:

    either way you are restricted by base res, unless you export under subd and reimport subdivided mesh for more geometry. 

    Can also set figure and rope to collide using smoothing modifier collision rather than sculpting, but not sure how well that would work. 

    can also probably do collision in Blender i assume, rather than sculpting.  Probably best to do rope in blender too while at it.

    The way I 'tried' to do it was with Mesh Grabber. So I guess that would be a 'sculpting' method.  It does work, but it is painstakingly slow and given the number of rop coils on the figure, it would take a VERY long time.  I am not very familar with Blender.

    Thanks!

    Geo

  • MisselthwaiteMisselthwaite Posts: 961

    I did a quick test, and there might be decent results to be had with adding a smoothing modifier to your figure and setting the collision item to your ropes (you can only choose one item to collide with, so it would only work with one rope at a time... YMMV).

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    Misselthwaite said:

    I did a quick test, and there might be decent results to be had with adding a smoothing modifier to your figure and setting the collision item to your ropes (you can only choose one item to collide with, so it would only work with one rope at a time... YMMV).

    I haven't used smoothing modifiers before, so I would need some instructions on how to do that, please.

    Thanks,

    Geo

  • MisselthwaiteMisselthwaite Posts: 961

    jukingeo said:

    Misselthwaite said:

    I did a quick test, and there might be decent results to be had with adding a smoothing modifier to your figure and setting the collision item to your ropes (you can only choose one item to collide with, so it would only work with one rope at a time... YMMV).

    I haven't used smoothing modifiers before, so I would need some instructions on how to do that, please.

    Thanks,

    Geo

    No problem!  I love using smoothing modifiers all over the place :-)

    Select your Figure.  From the top menu select EDIT, then FIGURE, then GEOMETRY, then ADD SMOOTHING MODIFIER.  Now the Smoothing Modifier will be available for you in the Parameters pane for your figure.  (In the General category you will see Mesh Smoothing with a subsection of COLLISION.)  In COLLSION there is a Collision Item drop down, where you can select the figure you want your figure to collide with.  This would be your rope set, in your case.

    This might work for your case, probably with some fiddling :-)

  • jukingeojukingeo Posts: 711

    Misselthwaite said:

    jukingeo said:

    Misselthwaite said:

    I did a quick test, and there might be decent results to be had with adding a smoothing modifier to your figure and setting the collision item to your ropes (you can only choose one item to collide with, so it would only work with one rope at a time... YMMV).

    I haven't used smoothing modifiers before, so I would need some instructions on how to do that, please.

    Thanks,

    Geo

    No problem!  I love using smoothing modifiers all over the place :-)

    Select your Figure.  From the top menu select EDIT, then FIGURE, then GEOMETRY, then ADD SMOOTHING MODIFIER.  Now the Smoothing Modifier will be available for you in the Parameters pane for your figure.  (In the General category you will see Mesh Smoothing with a subsection of COLLISION.)  In COLLSION there is a Collision Item drop down, where you can select the figure you want your figure to collide with.  This would be your rope set, in your case.

    This might work for your case, probably with some fiddling :-)

    I had given this a shot and I had found the results VERY underwhelming.  It seems that the area affected is too broad and it changes the shape too much.  I tried to play around with it for a while and then it suddenly stopped working.   Further, you can only set one item to collide with.  In the case of my figure having rope tied in several areas, I can only choose one.  Sadly, I need something better than this.  While the results with Mesh Grabber are decent, it takes a VERY long time to do.

    So, I don't know if it is the way it is, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.  If you have other ideas, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Geo

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