Why DAZ only?
lowtech
Posts: 27
Why are so many of your products lately DAZ only? Especially Landscape and Architecture? I can understand it for Figures and clothing because Genesis functions better in Studio, but it shouldn't matter for environments... I've had a sharp drop off in purchases because I'm a PoserPro user ( with no plans to switch) and so many of the new environments are Daz only...
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simple, because SmithMicro's Poser is not keeping up with technogical advancements. It is falling behind and becoming irrelevent in the 3D marketplace. In the same way you have the right to choose your program of choice for rendering, a PA has the right to choose what they want to work in and support. It's a free country.
Creat content in DAZ Studio? yes, absolutely! Poser? not so much.
Maybe.. But if they work in DAZ, it's easy for them to make Poser companion files, then you could import them using the DSON importer. I've tried to make them myself, but the interface and structure are so foreign to me that I have been unsuccessful....
I'm not going to turn this into a whole 'VHS vs Beta' argument.... I prefer to use Poser. There are very few steps to make the companion files. I would think that a Content creator would be more than capable of including these and thus appeal to a broader buying public. DAZ uses a very different naming and file structure, so for someone who doesn't use it, it's difficult to figure out the procedure.........
Unfortunately, it is not just the companion files. It is the time to make a completely different set of materials, etc.
Very much discussed over in this thread.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47328/
I get it... The Companion files are simply the cr2 files... Both use the same obj geometry and texture files... There was something in the procedure about Updating Meta Data, which I don't even know what that is, as Poser doesn't use it. It's like a 5 minute procedure to make the necessary file to make it Poser compatible, even for Genesis.... I now see that this question has been addressed in depth in another post. I will read on there......
I've also been buying fewer items, especially the newer items, since I prefer Poser format for use in Carrara. I've had trouble trying to use DUF files and so am leery of them. Happily, there are still a lot of new Poser format items coming out at various websites.
One solution would be for Poser to decide to go Iray too....... that would at least bring the materials of the 2 programs together. Otherwise with both Iray and 3delight to support you probably are going to see less and less Poser support at DAZ.
I'm a Poser user myself and have been since Version 2. I'm used to Poser and don't plan on switching because I find DS a little overwhelming even though it has a lot of nice features. I only use DAZ Studio to convert files that are not Poser friendly and in most cases it works for props and figures, but clothing items can be problematic but not impossible. I don't know DS very well and one of these days I'm going to try to learn the basics.
Someone else posted this in, I think, the Poser forum. It's a free conversion utility for DUF files that does a great job. Sometimes if you're lucky you can just export to a CR2 file from DS without any problems and if there aren't a lot of morphs in the figure. As the description says, this is for the products that don't have Companion Files included.
http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader
It seems to work with Material files as well.. I can't get it to work with Pose files. I have been fortunate enough to export full scenes out of DS for difficult items. These are the few non-CF items I have converted so far:
Motel by Bluebird 3d (Entire scene had to be exported from DS to keep the opening doors in place otherwise I would have to place them manually)
Simply Casual Boxers and Shirts for Genesis 2 Male(s) by Slosh (I had morphing problems with the drop underwear morph, but finally fixed it. I can't remember how at this moment. I think I just exported it from DS as a CR2. The materials exported easily using the free tool I listed above.)
Army Vehicles by Bricabrake (Can be exported from DS individually to a CR2 or export as entire scene to save the sand and sky)
hi I Daz Studio user sorry never used poser, i do not know what thing i has, but daz has "Create Poser Companion Files" that will pose compatible files
I've used that and it doesn't always work properly. The D3D python script does a better job. Some items in DAZ Studio can be exported as scenes to capture the materials and any figures that might have moving parts.
At the same time you are saying "There are very few steps to make the companion files" AND "DAZ uses a very different naming and file structure, so for someone who doesn't use it, it's difficult to figure out the procedure." You sound like you're saying it is BOTH easy AND hard. I think some content creators find it just as difficult as you do.
Well I expect from content creators a little bit more effort than from customers. So I don't know for what the OP is criticized here (sets are not about JCM or?). As a Poser user I also regret that the architecture sets now come more often in DS only format. The Poser compatible sets are also usable in other software as Bryce, Cinema4D, Vue or Carrara - and of course DS itself!
Not everything that is converted to .duf files will load in Poser. For example cabinets load without the moveable parts, a bed without the headboard (that has moveable parts) and so on. Poser aks for *.pmd files to create *.cr files that don't exist and because of it cannot load it. This is due to missing information in the original source, the *.dsf. I think it is because DS is more tolerant to *.dsf scripts that use two descriptions for the same part while the DSON loader for Poser obviously is not. In one case I managed to correct the *.dsf file where the mistake (two descriptions) was obvious even to my amateurish skills. But I failed so far in other cases. It there a script that can correct such *.dsf files?
I really don't care about different materials for Poser and DS. I always change them a bit here and there.
I've had similar problems with DUF content in Carrara (C8.5 Pro), and so have decided to stick with Poser/Carrara format. Meaning I'm doing a lot of my shopping elsewhere.
One other aspect to consider is that the software itself is needed for testing. Granted, a PA could generate the Poser files and have some Poser users test it, but the first time a customer runs into a problem it's a hassle to try and find out what went wrong without actually owning Poser. Add to that the possible need to have more than one version of Poser to test with, and updating the software as needed. The five or ten minute conversion suddenly starts taking a little longer, with the up-front costs of the software itself, and a vendor may find it faster, easier and cheaper to make two new DAZ products than one product supported on both platforms. This goes both ways; I'd love for some of the new Poser characters showing up to be compatible with DAZ (some of Tate's recent toon characters for example), but I certainly understand why they're not.
-- Walt Sterdan
Sadly there ws a divorce between smithmicro and daz few years back and both have gone in different directions .. Poser has put more concentration into the game developement and daz is moving more into the competive market for main stream media like 3d printing. motion picture animation creation etc..
you can fxb daz productsd into poser but then you may need to change your materials settings and add new mats for daz products.to work in poser I have poser pro , but i hardly use it anymoe. I am actually happy that daz is moving towards compatibility with Autodesk software . Iray has been a awesome advancement in daz studio with real time AUX render preview window. and greater flexibility with the morphs . as much as technology changes I just purchase what I know I'm going to be able to use. if a vendor chooses not to support a poser or vue software that their choice. even though i may not agree with it. I figure if the sales are not as expected then the vendors may start putting more efforts to make the products multi-compatible . Until then you can't force people to put in extra work for multi soft wares when their efforts do not produce enough profit for it to make it worth their time. you kind of have to look at from their point of view.
Beside there are tons of other 3D sites and stores that do not cater much to daz . so if you want poser products you may need to start looking at those shops as well for deals. which usually their products cost much less then daz . but the quality is not as good either . its a catch 22.
I have vendors i follow from site to site because I love their work and support them. like out touch for example she sells more of her poser compatible stuff at rendo & she tends to just sell her daz products here at daz. in either case she sells quality products. you just have to shop around for what you need.
Hello, Ivy. I'm not sure which sites you have in mind, but I have certainly found very high quality Poser products at other sites, and for prices similar to DAZ. Like you, I have favorite vendors at various sites, and in general I have as many preferred vendors at other sites as at DAZ. Since they continue to provide new Poser format products, I have been purchasing more at those sites recently, and have cancelled my DAZ PC membership.
Hi Steve I have been gearing myself up for a change as well I have been starting to learn towards Autodesk software. I figure in another month or so I will be able to get the full version of Autodesk pro suite. so I have started building my library with models that use obj files which can also be used in poser as well just stay away from turbosquid their have a hypocrite license agreement and they stuff cost you a arm and a leg.
But you should check out runtimedna and 3d traders then there is sites I use for my 3d printer content like.shapeways.com/ & 3docean.net/ 3d oceans has alot of unquine and affordable products as well that can be used in poser I use these sites because they don't require any extra licensing to 3d print their product, so i can produce ceramic molds.
3d export is a great site for blender and maya and poser users with super top quality models but are rather costly to buy some of their stuff //3dexport.com/ form fonts is a awesome site for textures http://www.formfonts.com/
Like I said there are so many 3d stores to shop , some are affordable some not so much but it depends on your need of a product at least products that use the OBJ. files are much easier to work with in poser and Maya than daz DUF files which require you use the dfs tool box if want to make it poser compatible but that is even becoming less and less useful tool to extract the OBJ file from DUF files
Edit: i should add you can use google sketch up to make basic models as well http://www.sketchup.com/
Wow, it does sound like you have changes underway. I'm quite happy with Carrara and my embarrassingly large collection of compatible content, mostly Poser and Carrara format. I'm more in need of movie making techniques, and lately have been re-reading the "Master Shots" series of books from Amazon. Lots of clever techniques I can understand and set up in Carrara. I agree about RuntimeDNA and shop there often. Plus I've found a number of vendors at Renderosity and elsewhere that are top notch quality and reasonably priced. So for now, I'm pretty well set on the content front.
I'm not an architecture person, but in response to the original question: I'm going to guess Iray has a lot to do with it. Many vendors that previous supported 3Delight and Poser materials are switching to 3Delight and Iray rather than try to create 3 sets of materials (always a headache).
To put yourself in the vendor's shoes for a second, imagine that if every single render you do in DAZ Studio, you had to also reproduce it in Poser. It's not just a question of exporting the scene and rendering. You have to fix the materials, lights and cameras, not to mention render settings. And that's assuming you're fairly expert in Poser. If you don't own it or have never used it, you'd end up tearing your hair out. (The reverse is also true for Poser vendors who've never used DS).
Also, quite often architectural products tend to be muiti-part, rather than just a single character. My prop packs (which up until now have all been Poser compatible) usually have 30 - 50 props, many of which have several parts, and most of which have multiple materials. So it's not just a question of transferring one item to Poser - it's dozens of them, with all their materials. plus all the MATs and other presets.
But to pick up on SickleYield's point, vendors are now faced with an even worse situation. In order to support both programs, 3 sets of materials are currently required - Iray/3DL/Poser - and now that Poser is about to implement Cycles, that will soon become 4 sets. That just isn't sustainable, especially if the return for the extra work is minimal.
I've been a PA here at DAZ since 2001, longer than most other PAs, not to mention most of the DAZ staff! I've always supported Poser, and every single product I've made up until now is Poser compatible. Well, I hate to say this, but things have now reached the point where I can no longer do that. The pack I just released will be the last one with Poser support. It wasn't an easy decision for me to take, but Iray has changed everything. Like every other PA, I want my products to look good, and after seeing results in Iray, I know there's no way I can get the same quality in Poser. I could hang on for Cycles to appear, but honestly, the amount of work involved in supporting two different programs with double materials is now beyond me.
I've never been a huge fan of Poser itself. I've always seen it as quirky and antiquated, so I have few qualms at abandoning the program. I'm far sorrier for the Poser customers who have always supported PAs, and who are now getting less and less choice in their content.
mac
mac -
I'm sorry to hear that. I enjoy using your products (I have 19) in Carrara, especially "Interiors: The Classroom" and "Interiors Corridors". They look pretty good to me in short animations with Carrara's renderer, but I have not investigated Iray. In any case, I'm glad I have those products for my future Carrara projects. Here is a short animation that uses The Classroom and Corridors, done for a two day contest with an environmental theme:
Mac will you at least be going down the same route as Stonemason is and include OBJs with MTLs. Part of the problem with not including a Poser version is that ther are no Geometry files which can be used by other programs.
Steve,
Excellent video! I'm glad you get so much out of my products.
Chohole,
No, I hadn't planned on including obj files. I will speak to stefan though and see what he says.
One possible issue is that my .mtl files would be no use to anyone. I export all objs with white materials for UV Mapping purposes, and I have a feeling DAZ QA would insist on all the texs being there.
Yes I can understand that. I obviously don't know about other programs, but often Bryce will not import an OBJ without having an MTL. I am not the only Brycer that uses Poser for prepping props and figures to import into Bryce.
Stefan was asked, and did supply the OBJ files, and also MTL, because there were just so many textures on his product.
In my case it was the London one he did, but He has also done the same with his next product I gather. It is a real boon for those of us who buy a significant volume of content from the store but use programs other than DS.
Another fly in the ointment...soon there will be a change in 3DL. They are including OSL (Open Shading Language) support...the only problem you can't have both RSL and OSL shaders at the same time.
Iray's MDL has the potential of being a 'common' material and OSL has the potential to access that. But it's not 'there' yet...so, potentially in a few years, endors would only need to make 1 set of material files.
There's always Renderosity and RDNA. Those two sites still have majority Poser support. RDNA in fact has the Terradome (legacy product) and Terradome 2 which are Poser-only.
Danie/Marforno also sell products at Rendo.
I can PM you a list of Rendo vendors who sell architecture and landscapes if you want, and give a brief critique of their quality (many vendors of outdoor/landscape scenes do not design their products to be used for close-up renders)