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Hardware Angst- PC or Mac?? [Mac it is]

Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
edited May 2022 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I'm finally getting a new rig for CPU-rendering. This is what the local guy offers me as a Windows alternative to a Mac Pro. He claims it has even better performance than the Mac. Surprisingly it costs almost as much in the end because I will need a screen, HD space, new software etc. Could someone kindly translate this to English for a Mac user, please:))

  • LENOVO TS P620 R-P3955WX 4x16GB/1TB
  •  KINGSTON KC3000 4096GB PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD 
  •  LENOVO ThinkStation NVIDIA Quadro P620 2GB GDDR5  

If I got it right the processor is a 16 core AMD RyzenThreadRipper pro processor 3.9GHZ / Max turbo speed 4.3 GHZ .

Here's the Mac specs I'm considering:

  • 3.3GHz 12‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
  • 48GB (6x8GB) of DDR4 ECC memory
  • Radeon Pro W5500X with 8GB of GDDR6 memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
  • Stainless steel frame with feet
  • Magic Mouse
  • Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - US English

I'm leaning towards Mac, wouldn't like having to re-new a lot of stuff like audio soft/hardware, but if there is a vast difference in performance I'd have to reconsider...

Post edited by Sven Dullah on

Comments

  • GordigGordig Posts: 9,885

    The specs you listed include a 4TB SSD in addition to the 1TB root drive (presumably also an NVME SSD), so the PC wins in that respect, as well as having 64GB of RAM versus the Mac's 48. Whether the increased RAM and core count of the processor will result in better performance than a Mac Pro is a tricky question, because Apple keeps their thumb on the scale where performance is concerned. Contrary to the common narrative, I would argue that the impressive thing isn't how well MacOS works, where Apple tightly controls both the hardware and the software, but that Windows works at all, given how open things are in Windows world. You could go to five different garage sales and buy parts that you could assemble into a computer that will run Windows. That may not sound like an endorsement of Windows, and ultimately it's up to you whether you'd feel comfortable leaving the Mac ecosphere, but I personally would definitely opt for the Windows PC over a Mac. 

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Gordig said:

    The specs you listed include a 4TB SSD in addition to the 1TB root drive (presumably also an NVME SSD), so the PC wins in that respect, as well as having 64GB of RAM versus the Mac's 48. Whether the increased RAM and core count of the processor will result in better performance than a Mac Pro is a tricky question, because Apple keeps their thumb on the scale where performance is concerned. Contrary to the common narrative, I would argue that the impressive thing isn't how well MacOS works, where Apple tightly controls both the hardware and the software, but that Windows works at all, given how open things are in Windows world. You could go to five different garage sales and buy parts that you could assemble into a computer that will run Windows. That may not sound like an endorsement of Windows, and ultimately it's up to you whether you'd feel comfortable leaving the Mac ecosphere, but I personally would definitely opt for the Windows PC over a Mac. 

    Tks, I hear you and appreciate the input! It's just...it would be so darn easy to just transfer the lot including my current DS version (4.9) and OS to the new Mac and keep working. And my audio gear would be compatible...hm...

    I hope someone is brave enough to take a guess at the performance aspect, as I have no idea. And what about LENOVO? Never heared about them before today.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,341

    Lenovo is the company that purchased the IBM laptop division (not sure about desktops). That was many years ago, so there is no literal continuity but they are a major brand and generally fairly well-respected.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 9,885

    I think I have that processor, and 128GB of RAM, so if you shoot me a scene I could render it on my system and tell you how fast it renders. It wouldn't be 1:1, but I might give you an idea. 

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Lenovo is the company that purchased the IBM laptop division (not sure about desktops). That was many years ago, so there is no literal continuity but they are a major brand and generally fairly well-respected.

    Tks:) 

  • GordigGordig Posts: 9,885

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Gordig said:

    I think I have that processor, and 128GB of RAM, so if you shoot me a scene I could render it on my system and tell you how fast it renders. It wouldn't be 1:1, but I might give you an idea. 

    Aah. tks for the offer!  I use scripted 3DL rendering so you would have to install a bunch of (free) stuff and probably get some instructions along with it, I'll see if I can put together a test scene using just DS standard shaders and default resources...I suspect you render 6 times faster than my current quad i5 2016 iMac:)

    However, RAM is not crucial when using 3DL, I've gotten along just fine with 8Gb for many years.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,341

    Sven Dullah said:

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

    Well, both matter - but yes, 3delight is very good at using all available cores so unless there is a huge disparity in performance the more the merrier.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

    Well, both matter - but yes, 3delight is very good at using all available cores so unless there is a huge disparity in performance the more the merrier.

    Yes, plan a was: get as many as you can afford, any of those above alternatives would speed up my rendering a whole lot, I would like to believe atleast 5-6 times?

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 781

    CPU Rendering?  Why and which renderers?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    nakamuram002 said:

    CPU Rendering?  Why

    Let's not go there, not  relevant!

    and which renderers?

     Look at my sig or read the thread!

    Tks!

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited April 2022

    A friend suggests a   AMD Ryzen 9 5950X (16C/32T, 105W) - 3.4G Base, 4.9G Turbo

    Comparison:

     https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2842?vs=2673

    Quoting:

    It is faster than the current MacPro, but Threadripper is a high end desktop processor that's a step behind current desktop processors. 

     

    Any thoughts, guys?

    Tks 

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • montrealfilmguymontrealfilmguy Posts: 127

    Yes i worked at IBM for 12 years. Nothing but Lenovo.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

    Well, both matter - but yes, 3delight is very good at using all available cores so unless there is a huge disparity in performance the more the merrier.

    I think DS 3DL is unlimited, moving to the free 3DL NSI (Maya, Houdini etc) would limit core count to 12 .

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,341

    Sven Dullah said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

    Well, both matter - but yes, 3delight is very good at using all available cores so unless there is a huge disparity in performance the more the merrier.

    I think DS 3DL is unlimited, moving to the free 3DL NSI (Maya, Houdini etc) would limit core count to 12 .

    I meant that, as I recall from people's tests, doubling the core count doesn't actually double performance though it does do a good job of increasing speed.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Gordig said:

    Just checked, and I have the 3960, which is 24-core. Also, Richard would know this better than I, but I don't think core count matters for 3DL so much as single-core speed. 

    Tks! On the contrary, core count is what really counts:)) 

    Well, both matter - but yes, 3delight is very good at using all available cores so unless there is a huge disparity in performance the more the merrier.

    I think DS 3DL is unlimited, moving to the free 3DL NSI (Maya, Houdini etc) would limit core count to 12 .

    I meant that, as I recall from people's tests, doubling the core count doesn't actually double performance though it does do a good job of increasing speed.

    Tks, yes I get that it's not a linear relatioship. Still researching... 

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    One more question, if I may:) If I go the Windows route and want to do RT pathtracing, Iray, Octane, what would the be a proper GPU?

    Tks!

     

  • robertswwwrobertswww Posts: 790

    Sven Dullah said:

    One more question, if I may:) If I go the Windows route and want to do RT pathtracing, Iray, Octane, what would the be a proper GPU?

    Tks!

     

    For iRay only nVidia GPUs are supported, and the more VRAM the better (and likelwise, the more cuda cores the better).  Be aware of the energy consumption and number of PCIe slots required (power connectors too), as the latest cards like the RTX 3090 and RTX 3090Ti require 3-slots, and several of the other nVidia RTX cards require 2-slots.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    robertswww said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    One more question, if I may:) If I go the Windows route and want to do RT pathtracing, Iray, Octane, what would the be a proper GPU?

    Tks!

     

    For iRay only nVidia GPUs are supported, and the more VRAM the better (and likelwise, the more cuda cores the better).  Be aware of the energy consumption and number of PCIe slots required (power connectors too), as the latest cards like the RTX 3090 and RTX 3090Ti require 3-slots, and several of the other nVidia RTX cards require 2-slots.

    Tks! Are those the top of the crop now? 

  • robertswwwrobertswww Posts: 790

    Sven Dullah said:

    robertswww said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    One more question, if I may:) If I go the Windows route and want to do RT pathtracing, Iray, Octane, what would the be a proper GPU?

    Tks!

     

    For iRay only nVidia GPUs are supported, and the more VRAM the better (and likelwise, the more cuda cores the better).  Be aware of the energy consumption and number of PCIe slots required (power connectors too), as the latest cards like the RTX 3090 and RTX 3090Ti require 3-slots, and several of the other nVidia RTX cards require 2-slots.

    Tks! Are those the top of the crop now? 

    Yes, the RTX 30-series and RTX 3090 Ti are the top right now, but if you can wait, the RTX 40-series should be release Q4 this year.

    You can compare the RTX 30-series cards here: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/

    FYI:  If you stay with your current version of Daz Studio 4.9, you may run into problems, as the new nVidia GPUs (RTX 20 and 30 series) require much later drivers that may not be supported in the older DS.  Maybe @Richard Haseltine can chime in to let us know about the specifics of driver support in older versions of DS.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    robertswww said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    robertswww said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    One more question, if I may:) If I go the Windows route and want to do RT pathtracing, Iray, Octane, what would the be a proper GPU?

    Tks!

     

    For iRay only nVidia GPUs are supported, and the more VRAM the better (and likelwise, the more cuda cores the better).  Be aware of the energy consumption and number of PCIe slots required (power connectors too), as the latest cards like the RTX 3090 and RTX 3090Ti require 3-slots, and several of the other nVidia RTX cards require 2-slots.

    Tks! Are those the top of the crop now? 

    Yes, the RTX 30-series and RTX 3090 Ti are the top right now, but if you can wait, the RTX 40-series should be release Q4 this year.

    You can compare the RTX 30-series cards here: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/

    FYI:  If you stay with your current version of Daz Studio 4.9, you may run into problems, as the new nVidia GPUs (RTX 20 and 30 series) require much later drivers that may not be supported in the older DS.  Maybe @Richard Haseltine can chime in to let us know about the specifics of driver support in older versions of DS.

    Most grateful for your help! I see, the GPU is absolutely not top prioriy for me, so might as well wait and see with that. And transfering my Mac DS 4.9 to PC - is it even possible? I'd hope so;)

  • robertswwwrobertswww Posts: 790

    Sven Dullah said:

    Most grateful for your help! I see, the GPU is absolutely not top prioriy for me, so might as well wait and see with that. And transfering my Mac DS 4.9 to PC - is it even possible? I'd hope so;)

     There are lots of variables when purchasing a new system (I run Daz on both Mac and PC), so glad I could offer some tips. As for the Mac version of Daz Studio 4.9... it will not run on a PC... you would need to contact Daz Support (submit a Help Ticket) and see if they are willing to give you a download for the Windows PC version of DS 4.9.  You may want to consider continuting to run DS 4.9 on your old Mac and run the latest version of DS on a PC if you go that route. Also DS 5 will be out in the near future, and it may offer better Mac support (hoping for support for rendering using Metal on Mac).

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    robertswww said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Most grateful for your help! I see, the GPU is absolutely not top prioriy for me, so might as well wait and see with that. And transfering my Mac DS 4.9 to PC - is it even possible? I'd hope so;)

     There are lots of variables when purchasing a new system (I run Daz on both Mac and PC), so glad I could offer some tips. As for the Mac version of Daz Studio 4.9... it will not run on a PC... you would need to contact Daz Support (submit a Help Ticket) and see if they are willing to give you a download for the Windows PC version of DS 4.9.  You may want to consider continuting to run DS 4.9 on your old Mac and run the latest version of DS on a PC if you go that route. Also DS 5 will be out in the near future, and it may offer better Mac support (hoping for support for rendering using Metal on Mac).

    Yup, and from what I read the days of Intel- based Macs are counted, new upgrade on the horizon. I'm just sinking deeper into the cyber swamp the more I dig...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Thanks everyone for the feedback and thoughts! I haven't made up my mind yet, but now I own the background facts I needed, so, we'll see how it pans out.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Went with a MacPro 16 core 48Gb RAM  2Tb SSD, tks again, folks!

  • robertswwwrobertswww Posts: 790

    Sven Dullah said:

    Went with a MacPro 16 core 48Gb RAM  2Tb SSD, tks again, folks!

    I'm glad you were able to figure-out what best fit your needs, and it sounds like your new system will keep you busy for the foreseeable future! I work on both Macs and PCs, but I prefer the Mac OS and generally find Macs more enjoyable to work on.

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