Non-photorealistic Renders (NPR)

tj_1ca9500b

Well, if that's shortly after Vader landed/was reecovered after careening out ouf conrol when the first Death Star blew up, yeah I wouldn't want to be in that room... Nice!

tkdrobert

LOL IT"S A MAD HOUSE!

tkdrobert

tj_1ca9500b said:

Well, if that's shortly after Vader landed/was reecovered after careening out ouf conrol when the first Death Star blew up, yeah I wouldn't want to be in that room... Nice

You hit the nail on the head!  That was my motivation behind that render.

mmitchell_houston

Hey everyone, I could really use a few more sets of eyes on this illustration I'm working on. I will be creating a b&w illustration in Poser 11 and Manga Studio 5 EX. BUT... I'm having trouble deciding on the pose and camera angle that best tells the story. Any votes on which of these work best? Or suggestions on what might work better?

Please, no comments on lighting, facial clarity or expressions (at least not yet), as I will finalize those after deciding which of these three camera angles works best.

  

mmitchell_houston

cconcep1103_628f300c00 said:

Hello all. I recently posted an image in the galleries and was invited to join this forum by mmithcell_houston. Please accept my attachment as my calling card.

I like dabbling in pinup work, nude studies and vehicles, and/or any combinations of those. I've been playing with Daz/Poser since I discovered it back in the 90's (Poser 3). I've switched to DS exclusively after a few years, and am constantly amazed at the new features the programmers come up with. I also have a site at Deviantart as "Losmeister." Look me up sometime.

@mmithcell_houston - thanks for the kind words you posted in the Galleries. Regarding this particular artwork, nothing special, just layers in Photoshop. Here's my technique: create a render in Iray and another in Basic OpenGL. I recently bought "ElianeCK HDRI Light for Iray" (can't remember if I used HDRI 4 or 12 settings for the Iray render). Turn off the HDRI lights and bring in Uber Environment when rendering in OpenGL.

Bring those as separate layers in PS - use the Iray render as the base with "Normal" Layer @ 100% Opacity. Duplicate that layer on top and set the layer setting as "Soft Light" @ 100% opacity, and change the Hue Saturation to -50 Lightness. Bring in the OpenGL render as another layer on top of these two and set the layer to "Screen" @ 50% opacity. And there you have it - a non-photorealistic rendering. Merge these layers down and perform some more cleanup (hair, facial expressions, joints, poke-throughs, etc). Of course this isn't set in stone. Feel free to play with as many layers and settings you can come up with.

While I am totally impressed by Daz Studio's capabilities, the characters still needs some postwork. By this I mean look out for joints (specially elbows and knees) and facial expressions. I've had some art training and focused primarily on anatomy. Study as much anatomy references you can get your hands on (the internet is just a mouse-click away). I've also seen some great artwork here and elsewhere using DS - hint: look up Shannon Maer - Holy F-ing Cow! If I can get my artwork to look half as good as his I'd have died and gone to heaven!

You are very welcome, and thanks for joining us. This is a very lively group, and I think there's a lot you can teach us, and maybe we can teach you. I learn things here all the time, and like you I've been at it a long time (I had Poser 3, but didn't really start using it until Poser 4, and the Pro Pack blew my mind; I then took a break from it for a while to use other programs, but eventually came back because both Poser and Daz Studio began improving by leaps and bounds). If I may, I would suggest you glance back a few pages and take a look at the Topaz filters that are being used to great effect. They sound like something that would fit in well with your workflow. I really like your pin-up, but looking at it full size just now, I noticed something that I hadn't seen before. I would suggest getting rid of that little dark shadow on the inside of her crotch – it kinda gives the illusion that we can see inside her shorts. This gives a strong hint of this being a serious wardrobe malfunction. 

Did you do anything to her knees? They look particularly good here, in terms of anatomy.

And, as I said before, the hair, pose and expression are just TOP-NOTCH. This is such a fun illustration. 

QUESTION: Did you ever consider removing the shadow on the white background (leaving it just on the cool circle)? Or maybe moving the shadow on white farther behind her, to increase the illusion of depth? Just something that crossed my mind just now. LOVE IT!

 

 

mmitchell_houston

Artini said:

Thanks, Worlds_Edge.

Below is another trial, with Topaz Clean filter used in postwork.

I know what you mean about the duck. Dang, I wanna play with him in a scene. Maybe next week, after I get that danged cowboy illustration done (I need to put it -- or a different illustration -- in a book I want to send to the printers soon). 

Okay, YOU SLAM-DUNKED this one! It was cool before, but the change in reflections made a world of difference. This is REALLY nice! This almost has a modern storybook look to it. And those little flowers are so danged cute. Again... I have GOT to get over to the Unity store and see what they've got there. :-) 

DaremoK3

mmitchell:

For worm's-eye view, they all look good, but my vote is for Aux Camera 1.

Assessing vanishing points and ground planes, I believe AC1 is more dynamic, and action wise, it conveys more of an immediate threat/dire situation that looks like protagonist is actively protecting his face from being smashed in while painstakingly reaching for his life-saver.

They all work, but I like AC1 best...

tkdrobert

mmitchell_houston said:

Hey everyone, I could really use a few more sets of eyes on this illustration I'm working on. I will be creating a b&w illustration in Poser 11 and Manga Studio 5 EX. BUT... I'm having trouble deciding on the pose and camera angle that best tells the story. Any votes on which of these work best? Or suggestions on what might work better?

Please, no comments on lighting, facial clarity or expressions (at least not yet), as I will finalize those after deciding which of these three camera angles works best.

  

My vote is for 2.

tkdrobert

Another one that started out as realistic and I converted to NPR.  Until I master IRAY and get more IRAY assets, I think I'll embrace NPR as my primary style/format.

Losmeister

mmitchell_houston said:

cconcep1103_628f300c00 said:

 

You are very welcome, and thanks for joining us. This is a very lively group, and I think there's a lot you can teach us, and maybe we can teach you. I learn things here all the time, and like you I've been at it a long time (I had Poser 3, but didn't really start using it until Poser 4, and the Pro Pack blew my mind; I then took a break from it for a while to use other programs, but eventually came back because both Poser and Daz Studio began improving by leaps and bounds). If I may, I would suggest you glance back a few pages and take a look at the Topaz filters that are being used to great effect. They sound like something that would fit in well with your workflow. I really like your pin-up, but looking at it full size just now, I noticed something that I hadn't seen before. I would suggest getting rid of that little dark shadow on the inside of her crotch – it kinda gives the illusion that we can see inside her shorts. This gives a strong hint of this being a serious wardrobe malfunction. 

Did you do anything to her knees? They look particularly good here, in terms of anatomy.

And, as I said before, the hair, pose and expression are just TOP-NOTCH. This is such a fun illustration. 

QUESTION: Did you ever consider removing the shadow on the white background (leaving it just on the cool circle)? Or maybe moving the shadow on white farther behind her, to increase the illusion of depth? Just something that crossed my mind just now. LOVE IT!

@mmithcell_houston - I took your advise and closed up the gap in her crotch. After all, "good girls reveal nothing." I also got rid of the background shadow. I waffled early on, playing with that shadow - I think it looks better without it - what do you think? I didn't do anything special to her knees, those are the mats I used (Domina Character). I've got other, similar artwork I'll be posting soon to the Galleries. So far, I'm liking this "logo style" artwork, as you put it, or what I call "neo retro nose art." The B-29s of the 509th Composite Group are a major source of inspiration. Yes, the atom bombers, "Enola Gay" and "Bockscar." Others in that group were "The Great Artiste," "Next Objective," "Necessary Evil," "Strange Cargo" and "Full House," just to name a few. Thanks for the input - keep them coming.

 

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

My vote is for 2.

DaremoK3 said:

For worm's-eye view, they all look good, but my vote is for Aux Camera 1. Assessing vanishing points and ground planes, I believe AC1 is more dynamic, and action wise, it conveys more of an immediate threat/dire situation that looks like protagonist is actively protecting his face from being smashed in while painstakingly reaching for his life-saver. They all work, but I like AC1 best...

Thanks guys. You both chose the two I like best... hence my indecision. I like the immediacy of Aux Camera 1, but I prefer the leg bend in Camera 2.

mmitchell_houston

Okay, here's another stab at it with fresh eyes in the morning (okay, afternoon) light. I updated the pose a little to move the attacker so we can see more of a leg bend. Any thoughts on these two updates? Again, I'm only looking at the pose and camera angle -- I'll deal with lighting and expressions later.

   

Dolly Camera 1 update and Aux Camera 1 update are NEW. 
I have included the original Aux Camera 2 (which I think is my favorite from the first round) so it's easier to make a side-by-side comparison.

mmitchell_houston

cconcep1103_628f300c00 said:

mmitchell_houston said:

cconcep1103_628f300c00 said:

 

You are very welcome, and thanks for joining us. This is a very lively group, and I think there's a lot you can teach us, and maybe we can teach you. I learn things here all the time, and like you I've been at it a long time (I had Poser 3, but didn't really start using it until Poser 4, and the Pro Pack blew my mind; I then took a break from it for a while to use other programs, but eventually came back because both Poser and Daz Studio began improving by leaps and bounds). If I may, I would suggest you glance back a few pages and take a look at the Topaz filters that are being used to great effect. They sound like something that would fit in well with your workflow. I really like your pin-up, but looking at it full size just now, I noticed something that I hadn't seen before. I would suggest getting rid of that little dark shadow on the inside of her crotch – it kinda gives the illusion that we can see inside her shorts. This gives a strong hint of this being a serious wardrobe malfunction. 

Did you do anything to her knees? They look particularly good here, in terms of anatomy.

And, as I said before, the hair, pose and expression are just TOP-NOTCH. This is such a fun illustration. 

QUESTION: Did you ever consider removing the shadow on the white background (leaving it just on the cool circle)? Or maybe moving the shadow on white farther behind her, to increase the illusion of depth? Just something that crossed my mind just now. LOVE IT!

@mmithcell_houston - I took your advise and closed up the gap in her crotch. After all, "good girls reveal nothing." I also got rid of the background shadow. I waffled early on, playing with that shadow - I think it looks better without it - what do you think? I didn't do anything special to her knees, those are the mats I used (Domina Character). I've got other, similar artwork I'll be posting soon to the Galleries. So far, I'm liking this "logo style" artwork, as you put it, or what I call "neo retro nose art." The B-29s of the 509th Composite Group are a major source of inspiration. Yes, the atom bombers, "Enola Gay" and "Bockscar." Others in that group were "The Great Artiste," "Next Objective," "Necessary Evil," "Strange Cargo" and "Full House," just to name a few. Thanks for the input - keep them coming.

I'm definitely a fan of that type of nose art. There were a lot of skilled GIs out there who did some great work.

It looks better without the shadows. A modern touch in a retro piece can be nice at times, but sometimes it pays off more to stick closer to the original inspiration. And your comment about "good girls reveal nothing" made me smile... because I couldn't help but think, "but they imply everything!" Looking forward to seeing more.

mmitchell_houston

Okay, it's obvious it's time for me to walk away for a while. Take the dog for a walk and chill. I'm getting too fixated on tweaking things.

I liked Aux Camera 1 Update, but thought the boot wasn't aimed at the head enough. So, here it is tweaked.  

 

Thoughts?

 

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

Another one that started out as realistic and I converted to NPR.  Until I master IRAY and get more IRAY assets, I think I'll embrace NPR as my primary style/format.

VERRRRRY nicely done! The clean-up really moves it toward an illustrated look. Great colors, love that the snow helps create a sense of this being a real environment. I wonder if the composition wouldn't be stronger if the trailing ship were smaller and framed between the peaks. Right now it's not exactly "lost" by having it intersect with the background, but the composition would be a little more classic if it were framed by other elements in the scene. The reflections on the water and glass are nicely done, by the way. Particularly the glass has a painterly look to it.

Headwax

Half Blind Joker - from the present Carrara challenge. Topaz Simplify and Impression over Carrara render passes. Feel free to join, all you need is Carrara and a tomato.

 

mmitchell_houston said:

Hey everyone, I could really use a few more sets of eyes on this illustration I'm working on. I will be creating a b&w illustration in Poser 11 and Manga Studio 5 EX. BUT... I'm having trouble deciding on the pose and camera angle that best tells the story. Any votes on which of these work best? Or suggestions on what might work better?

Please, no comments on lighting, facial clarity or expressions (at least not yet), as I will finalize those after deciding which of these three camera angles works best.

  

 

nice action there... well I like the top chap in number two, but the bottom chap in number three :)

I think the bottom chap in number three is much more dynamic.

(as an aside the top chap's knee is bulging in number 2 - which I find in a lot of 3d clothes in my work - if that's ot just ignore it.!)

 

ah I see you have updated it twice since then :)

 

maybe an isometric camera or such would give less distortion?

 

@Worlds_End thank you 

 

tkdrobert

mmitchell_houston said:

tkdrobert said:

Another one that started out as realistic and I converted to NPR.  Until I master IRAY and get more IRAY assets, I think I'll embrace NPR as my primary style/format.

VERRRRRY nicely done! The clean-up really moves it toward an illustrated look. Great colors, love that the snow helps create a sense of this being a real environment. I wonder if the composition wouldn't be stronger if the trailing ship were smaller and framed between the peaks. Right now it's not exactly "lost" by having it intersect with the background, but the composition would be a little more classic if it were framed by other elements in the scene. The reflections on the water and glass are nicely done, by the way. Particularly the glass has a painterly look to it.

I see what you mean about the 2nd awing.  I need to develop a better eye for composition.

Bunyip02

Carrara render - Filter Forge - Chinaware painting filter

Carrara render - Gladiator versus Wyvern - Filter Forge Old Book Illustrator filter

Bunyip02

Old House - Filter Forge Paint HDRtist filter

Artini

Thanks for the comments, mmitchell_houston.

 

Headwax

Very nice Bunyip02, you are on a roll with filter forge.

 

Here's my Carrara stuff for the day. Using Topaz, Fotosketcher and Waterlogue.

Also  first time I have really looked at Carrara's skies with a finer eye. It has a lot of potential. The Genesis for this one was a Wyeth sailing ship. 

Long John Silver was a painted over in Artrage 5.  Finally unpacked my Wacom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oso3D

Iray and then postwork, so NPR sorta?

 

mmitchell_houston

Good Grief! I just spent $180 on 322 items during this weekend's blow-out sale! I actually had to make myself stop because it took so long to go through that massive list of discounted items!

I actually got so much stuff I'm not even sure when I'll get around to using it... on the other hand, I did get some items that will be used VERY soon!

Worlds_Edge

@cconcep1103_628f300c00 great work, and thank you for sharing your process.  I'm still learning my way around iray but when I am at a point where I'm ready to use 3DL as well, I'll give your method a try.

 

@tkdrobert - that's a pretty damned great render.  He looks a little more realistic than the ship, but it works very very well.  

Oso3D

After the War + Monstrous skulls, alien plants, etc.

I have loads of different paint filters, but I've really gravitated to the Fotosketcher 'brushstrokes' postwork. There's something about the way it does brushstrokes, at the right scale, that appeals to me a lot.

The other thing I should experiment with is postwork, because the loss of fine detail might 'hide' things that are otherwise awkward.

 

Bunyip02

timmins.william said:

After the War + Monstrous skulls, alien plants, etc.

I have loads of different paint filters, but I've really gravitated to the Fotosketcher 'brushstrokes' postwork. There's something about the way it does brushstrokes, at the right scale, that appeals to me a lot.

The other thing I should experiment with is postwork, because the loss of fine detail might 'hide' things that are otherwise awkward.

 

Will, nice render.

Bunyip02

Sci-Fi scene from me. Used Fotosketcher with Oil Painting setting.

tkdrobert

Looks like I have another tool to try: Fotosketcher.  Learning so much from this thread.

RRoriginal21

    Hello

I'm a beginner and managed to make the following simple image with a model from DAZ3D.the free trial version of Filter forge and Ron's brushes:

I've seen the following tutorial where the artist uses Poser11:

Ok, it's called Comic Book Preview and requires a fair lot of tweaking, but on the whole I think it's worth a try. It requires postwork afterwards too.

I usually render one color render and one Comic Book Preview with just the lines. Then I combine them in Ps, using Overlay layer mode.
When I have more time I'll post a short tut here for reference.

A while ago I posted a pic done in this style to my DAZ gallery ;]
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/11602

Also, a few extra pics I dug out of my computer:

Yes, postwork will always be there. But some pretty nice results can be achieved ;)

Here's the tutorial, or rather a walk-through.

 

I have a couple of questions;How I combine the two renders of the image?

How I tweak to my liking and add effects?

And finally I need to make it with Poser11 or I can have the same result with DAZ3D,Photoshop and Filter forge?

    Thank you all very much,I'm looking forward for your answers

mmitchell_houston

RRoriginal21 said:

    Hello

I'm a beginner and managed to make the following simple image with a model from DAZ3D.the free trial version of Filter forge and Ron's brushes:

I've seen the following tutorial where the artist uses Poser11: Ok, it's called Comic Book Preview and requires a fair lot of tweaking, but on the whole I think it's worth a try. It requires postwork afterwards too. I usually render one color render and one Comic Book Preview with just the lines. Then I combine them in Ps, using Overlay layer mode. When I have more time I'll post a short tut here for reference. A while ago I posted a pic done in this style to my DAZ gallery ;]
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/11602

Also, a few extra pics I dug out of my computer:

 

Yes, postwork will always be there. But some pretty nice results can be achieved ;) Here's the tutorial, or rather a walk-through.

   

I have a couple of questions;How I combine the two renders of the image? How I tweak to my liking and add effects? And finally I need to make it with Poser11 or I can have the same result with DAZ3D,Photoshop and Filter forge?     Thank you all very much,I'm looking forward for your answers

Thank you SO MUCH for the insightful walk-through, and welcome to this forum! I've been using this method for a while now, and getting very solid results. Although I usually stick to black & white -- I seldom work in full color because my work is printed in b&w.

To directly answer your question (and I know a lot of people here will disagree), but the short answer is: Using Daz Studio and various filters, you will be able to get close to Poser 11's Comic Book Preview, but you will not get exactly the same sharp results. All of the line art renders I've seen here are similar, but not quite as good as what you can get from Poser 11. Lines generated by Will Timmon's Outline Shader and via LineRender 9000 are very nice, but they are all soft and lack the distinct edges you get with Poser 11. That being said, it might be worth it if you want to invest the time in discovering a workflow that can achieve sharp inked edges. You would get access to more modern models (Genesis 2 and 3, for example) and newer props, which don't always work properly when using the DSON importer to take them to Poser 11. BUT... there's a LOT of great content out there for Poser, so it might be worth it to stick with it and just continue to work with Poser.

In any case, I look forward to seeing what you have to show us next.

PS: If you're interested, I have several illustrations using Poser 11 in my gallery: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#galleries/221578/