The best new PCs for Daz?
RexRed
Posts: 1,323
A month ago my answer would have been very different.
When I buy a new PC I usually plan to spend at least $3000.
A month ago I would have said get an AMD 9 (12 or 16 core CPU) and an RTX 3090 GPU.
Latest reports say, Intel is totally back in the game.
Intel has been partnering with Micosoft and Windows 11.
They have developed chips that Windows 11 can utilize more precisely in regards to RAM, CPU and GPU function.
For instance the new Intel processors are PCIE 5.
Yes, 5! Twice as fast as PCIE4.
The new DDR5 RAM is twice as fast as DDR4.
And the Nvidia RTX 3090 is PCIE4 but the Nvidia 3090Ti is PCIE 5.
And Intel has lowered the price of their "new" (latest 2022 model) CPUs drastically (almost half price) from $1000 to $500.
The RTX 3090Ti coupled with a new Intel processor and new DDR5 RAM promise to give blazing fast render times and stability.
In other words, perhaps half the RAM would offer the same productivity speeds.
This technology is only about a month old and changes the PC landscape drastically bowling over any previous offerings in the Win 10 era.
In other words, now, Intel is the way to go with a chip and if you are planning on buying a new Win 11 system to render, pay close attention to PCIE 5 and DDR5.
Every device must meet those standards to take advantage of those port speeds.
Thoughs? Comments? Please feel free to chime in.
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Comments
Not impressed as it's about "Consumer level" platform. Updates to the HEDT platform are still not in sight, some rumours are talking about Q4/2022, but remains to be seen.
Still need the motherboards.
AMD will have their PCIE5/DDR5 CPUs out this year.
I'll wait. I've never been an Intel fan.
AMD has had PCIE4 support since 2019.
Intel just got PCIE4 support in 2021.
AMD Ryzen could've had PCIE5 last year.
https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-am5-platform-will-support-ddr5-and-pcie-5-at-launch-in-2022/
With prices so high in the PC componet market currently, and every manufacturer saying that it will get worse this year.I don't thinnk I'll be doing much updating anyway.
My current build is less than a year old anyway.So all the parts still have their warranties and I'm quite happy with it.
Though I would buy an R9 5950X CPU should I get the oportunity this year.
It seems Intel and the mainboard partners have an issue with "bending CPUs". It leads to cooling issues and performance loss. As it seems it is an issue with the design of the socket.
https://www.igorslab.de/en/bad-cooling-at-alder-lake-problems-at-socket-lga-1700-on-the-lane-among-all-remedies/
Intel Core i9-12900K Review
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-12900k
Even with DDR5 , a 5.1GHZ over clock on the "BIG" cores, custom benchmark software, and a custom scheduler from MS, Intel struggled to stay in 2nd place in alot of those benchmakrs.
"...Intel even provided several custom "workflow" benchmarks to its reviewer pool this time, designed to simulate those scenarios where the impact of its hybrid-architecture approach (and Thread Director's effect) would be most apparent..."
"...We ran the Photoshop and Premiere Pro versions of these benchmarks, which showed some impressive results that shouldn't be shoved aside as mere marketing hoopla. (More on that in a minute.)..."
To Intel's credit, 8 FPS is faster in a video game, but I really wouldn't be all that worried about 8 FPS.Also, once you have FPS above the monitors screen refresh rate those frames get dropped anyway.So 200FPS on a monitor that has a 160Hz refresh is kinda useless, and can also overheat the card for no usable performance increase.Most casual gamers and home users are still on 60HZ monitors.
Amazons new game was running up to something like 300FPS or more on a menu screen overheating some users' RTX 3090 cards to the point of damaging them.
https://www.reviewgeek.com/92901/amazon-made-an-mmo-thats-destroying-graphics-cards/
Amazon had to issue a patch to limit the frame rate on the menu screens to stop this from happening.
Not a good first show for Intel in my humble opinion.
I think their biggest problem with this architecture is going to be software getting parked on the slower cores.
Will be interesting to see how iray handles those FAST|SLOW cores aswell as UI responsiveness for heavy apps like Daz Studio.
Hey IceCrMn, I don't use my CPU cores to render at all and I have 12 of them and 24 threads.
The big thing is the Win 11 architecture and the PCIE5 and new RAM speeds.
It is not about frame rates, it is about real time raytracing.
Game graphics compared to Daz are light years behind even with all the tricks games are incorporating to fool the eye.
As you know it take hours to render one single frame of a complex Daz scene.
Intel is building a huge multi billion dollar chip factory, soon most US chips will probably be manufactured there (including AMD).
It is all done in the graphics cards now and faster CPUs are not as beneficial. But the CPU can also bottleneck the GPU.
If the CPU can assist the GPU more, then that is a huge win.
Tighter WIn 11 integration might accomplish that.
I think you're missing something regarding the RTX 3090Ti. This is definitely not a card that I would want to be using for renders without a custom water cooling solution, backplate, etc. They are even more power hungry with bigger wattage spikes vs. an RTX 3090. So the only reason anyone with the money should get one is because its the only thing available that they're able to get without paying scalper prices. So if you can get your hands on one, go for it, but just be aware it uses around 500 watts and can have even higher wattage spikes.
As I wrote before, I would not invest into the new Intel Alder Lake platform until Intel and the boardpartners confirm the bending issue is either solved or does not happen with their mainboards (the issue plaques air and water cooling). As it seem so far, the risk is there that customers might get cooling and throttling issues with no way to solve that.
And regarding rendering. I have a Threadripper 3960x system giving me 48 threads which is not as fast as current Nvida cards but fast enough to render complex scenes (speed is similar to RTX 2070 cards). Memory limit is not an issue because 64 GB ram are in there and I could go up to 256 GB (Alder Lake is max. 128 GB). PCI 5, DDR 5 do not make a relevant difference in this scenario. The chip socket is rock solid, cooling works perfectly. The ram is quad channel design which gives enormous bandwidth (Alder Lake is dual channel). And this is a three years old platform. The next AMD genereation is already expected for second half of this year. Even though Alder Lake is nice for gaming and even some DCC it is not the answer to AMD Threadripper which I expectet (I thought they would offer something for the HEDT market). But I am still interested about a new HEDT platform from Intel once there will be one on the horizon.
Yeah, the Alder Lake sounds like a high end motorcycle which suits those looking for one, but if one wants a heavy duty pickup truck that could tow a jumbojet around the globe, it doesn't fit the bill...
Very interesting :)
My CPU X3900 12 cores is very slow too... May be a 1070 is betters in render... xD
I have a 1600 watt PS, enough power to run two 3090Ti's in NVLink.
I bought a 3090 about a month after it was relased and Daz was already patched to work perfectly with it. So were all of my games and programs i.e. Photoshop, Premiere etc...
Daz is ahead of the technology, not behind in it.
No one was behind in it.
I am sure the tech geniuses are testing furiously the new Intel chips and they will most assuredly let Intel know what is causing the bends in the chips and it will get fixed.
There are several issues here.
Cuda cores (render times), NVLink, speed loading geometry into memory, and CPU/GPU integration, storage speeds.
Win 11 is trying to leverage these issues.
I know for certian I want the 3090ti, I will not pay scalper prices.
I know I want Windows 11 (better security is a big issue), PCIE5 and DDR5.
Whether if Intel or AMD will deliver the best option, time will tell.
I am not in a hurry, I am doing really well with the 3090 for now.
I can render a huge 24GB scene at 13500x11000 in 2 hours. My PC would accomdate another 3090, but I will wait and buy the 3090Ti instead.?
I did not pay scalper prices for my 3090, you just have to search the web day and night to find where the new GPUs are being unloaded.
The scalpers had to find them somewhere too.
My I9 currently has 44 lanes, so I could easily add another 3090.
Do I use 24 gb for a scene? Almost every scene I make is that big.
As it is now I can still only load ultrascenery if I use the camera cut options or seriously limit the items scattered on the terrain.
When I was using a 1080ti (11gb) I thought I would probably never need 24 GB but I was wrong. I coudl easily build scenes 50GB no problem.
Ultra scenery, several figures with hair, clothes, tattoos, jewelry, and tons of props, houses, barns, vehicles, animals, dragon towers in the distance, a 16K hdr, fog, rain, dust, lightning, godrays and you are at 50GB easy. :)
I read rumors that Nvidia might ditch NVLink on the RTX 3090 Ti. So far there is nothing official from Nvidia whether that is true or not. So, something to check before buying it maybe?