Help me decide on my dream laptop for 3D Rendering!
RoseSaxton
Posts: 38
Update 3: I am now leaning toward getting a desktop from the XOTIC website and I can customize it. I've raised my budget to $4K to include the monitor. I'm shopping for an i9/3080 combo with the most RAM I can afford.
Update 2: I am considering the XOTIC PC 17 laptop now for $2,900, specs below in my comment. I can't set up a tower and would like to try a laptop for rendering.
Update: based on the responses here, I'm probably going to wait until I can get a desktop setup. It might take a while but I'm rethinking spending any money right now until I'm sure.
TLDR: I'm leaning toward getting the Dell Laptop because the screen is just so gorgeous.
I have a $3K budget to buy a laptop for Daz3D rendering.
I would like really fast HD renders where I can preview and edit in Iray mode.
I plan to do some short animations and video editing.
I don't plan to play games on this device.
Right now I have an MX 110 graphics card and it takes about 2 hours for a Full HD render and when it's done, I'm not sure it's really even HD.
I've narrowed it down to 2 choices that meet all my specs:
1. Eluktronics MAX 17 Gaming Laptop https://www.eluktronics.com/MAX-17#reviews
Specs: AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Graphics Card, 17.3 inch QHD 165Hz Anti-Glare Display (2560 x 1440) 300 Nit, 16GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, Weight = 5.0 pounds $3,100
Pros: The 3080 and Ryzen are the big draws for this one. It also has a number pad which is important to me. The ports are standard. The RAM can easily be upgraded to 32GB.
Cons: The screen display is QHD 165Hz IPS (2560 x 1440) - Not UHD 4K and it has a large bevel at the bottom. No touchscreen. The brand is not familiar to me.
2. Dell XPS 17 9710 Touchscreen Laptop
Specs: Intel Core i9-11900H, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 graphics card, 17" UHD+Infinity Edge Display (3840x2400) 500 Nit, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB SSD, weight = 5.53 pounds $3,000
Pros: The Infinity screen has very thin bevels on 4 sides and it's 4K IPS beauitful, the overal aesthetics are better (sleek silver case), Dell is a trusted brand in my family. I have had nothing but touchscreens for a very long time.
Cons: No number pad, Heavier (by .5 pounds). Intel i9 and GeForce RTX 3060 instead of AMD Ryzen 9 and GeForce RTX 3080 as above, non-standard ports (no USB, etc.)
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-17-laptop/spd/xps-17-9710-laptop/xn9710cto230s
So it all comes down to that big bevel at the bottom of the screen on the Eluktronics laptop and the lack of number pad on the Dell. I really would like a number pad again since I am very efficient with it and just prefer it. If you've worked a register before or spent a lot of time on a calculator, you understand why I prefer a number pad. Typing numbers across the top of the keypad is frustrating.
The Eluktronics screen isn't 4K or 500Nit. It is IPS however, which is still very good. In the video reviews, I was not impressed with the brilliance of the images on the screen like I was for the Dell, but the Eluktronics one has the number pad. The aesthetics are okay, but I prefer the overall look of the Dell.
The Dell ports aren't that much of a problem since I'll use Bluetooth peripherals or converters if I want to connect other devices.
I guess the question I need to ask myself is if I'm willing to give up that Infinity screen and the sleeker Dell for the keypad and the Ryzen with the 3080. Are those overkill for the type of work I'm going to be doing anyway?
Can I live without a number pad like I've been doing for years? Probably.
What would you do?
Other Eliminated Choices:
AERO Gigabyte Brand with 4K IPS screen and 3070 graphics card. Eliminated for bad reviews and aesthetics. Don't trust the brand. ($2K)
ASUS Rog Strix Scar 32GB RAM with AMD Ryzen, IPS, and GeForce 3080: Eliminated for Price ($4K) and aesthetics, but I like the specs
ACER Nitro with AMD Ryzen 7, GeForce 3060 Eliminated because no IPS screen and reviews say colors are bad. ($1.5K)
Alienware 17 Laptop, Intel i7 processor, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060, screen is 1920x1080 pixels, $2,000USD Eliminated because No IPS/4K screen, No AMD processor, No i9 Intel Core, no GeForce 3080 graphics card, no touchscreen, Heavier and more bulky (5.3 pounds), Unknown brand in our family, Son will want to play because it looks like a gaming laptop ($2K)
ASUS Zenbook 15 comes with secondary screen - eliminated for price and size ($4K)
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Comments
This video shows pretty clearly how the Dell is just a better experience because of the screen
A laptop will never be best for 3D rendering. Laptop GPUs are not the same and neither are CPUs. Airflow, power consumption, pretty much everything is different.
Just get a tower, and not a little opne either, go full size for the airflow.
In my current situation, I don't have the space or freedom to set up a tower. I need a laptop because of the people I'm living with. If they move out, I can always get a tower, but I haven't seen any reviews even mentioning that the laptops struggle to do a 3D render.
@RoseSaxton If you can't do a desktop, you can't do a desktop, but @Spacious is absolutely correct. You may not have heard that laptops are not good at rendering because reviews typically compare a laptop to other laptops. Your laptop may not necessarily struggle in an absolute sense, but it is definitely under-powered compared to the equivalent desktop part because a laptop has stricter power, space, and heat constraints then a, say, full sized tower with lots of fans that's plugged into the wall.
But of course, if you never compare it to a desktop that cost the same amount. It'll just feel like awesoneness, and it will be just that.
BTW, the 3080 in the Eluktronics model would be the deciding factor for me, but it will need more RAM. If it just means saving up for a little longer, I'd be patient and get the better GPU.
I'm gonna agree with the others here. A desktop would be your best bet for rendering. You can have a custom system built that is bigger for roughly the same price or an extra $100 - $150. I'm not sure how a laptop no matter how big can hold up to rendering because of the heat generated. Laptops have absolutely the worst airflow out of anything. I'd think if you had a heavy scene it runs the very high risk of overheating. The decision between laptop and desktop is your decision because we don't know your circumstances behind why you want a laptop. If you plan to travel or more around room to room, yes, you will need a laptop but if your pretty stationary a desktop is definitely the better route to go.
I'll think about it and maybe I'll need to make another post, but I really need the privacy of a laptop with my family being so close and nosy.
I could keep going as I am where I only do it when they aren't here and I wrap it up before they get home. That's the free option. It's just a little inconvenient, but it does work.
Since this isn't my main business, I can't really justify the expense of a new monitor and tower either because to get the same specs, it would be $4K which is over my budget for a hobby.
The visibility of the tower will create a lot of problems for me as far as having to answer questions and share it, etc.
I probably shouldn't even spend the $3K on a hobby, but I was fantasizing of fast renders and editing in Iray on a private laptop that I could tuck away when I was done.
Maybe I should continue to edit in Texture Shaded on my current computer until I'm sure I'm more serious about this.
Dell has a NVIDIA 3090 option on their towers, so maybe I need to wait a year or so before I invest more in this.
But that Dell Infinity screen is gorgeous and it was all I wanted for Christmas.
So, I guess I'm still debating.
Thanks for your insights.
If you do decide to get the laptop do yourself a favor and get yourself a cooling tray the laptop can sit on. They can have anywhere from 1-5 fans in them and they are pretty cheap for good ones. Just the minor stuff I do on mine heats it up pretty darn hot so this helps it keep the temp managable.
OKay. I was planning to get a cooling pad but I didn't realize it was fans!
As I was responding to this thread, I worked on the PC that I have while everyone is out of the house. I think I'll keep up that process until I'm sure what the heck I want.
If you do decide to go with a laptop for rendering I would recommend MSI instead of Dell. I currently use an MSI laptop, an older model, but still quite good for my uses.
The dell has Thunderbolt 4 ports that are compatible with many connection standards, including previous versions of Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and PCle. The ports fit standard USB-C type connectors.
If you go with the Eluktronics config, it might be worth your while to opt for the 1TB SSD + 32GB RAM upgrade (for $200 extra). As I understand it, the general of thumb for Studio and nVIDIA cards is this: for every GB of video RAM, you need at least two GB system RAM. (Some have argued the video to system RAM ratio is closer to 1:3.)
Otherwise, rather than being able to render a scene anywhere close to 16GB in size, you might be lucky if your card's memory can load a scene the size half that. Anything larger, and your Studio render will drop to CPU anyway.
Just a quick response from someone who has used laptops almost exclusively for 3D and photogrammetry (Agisoft Metashape) for years. With the right laptop (i.e. one actually built for heavy use) you can get virtually the same performance aa a desktop with the same specs. It will cost you a bit more than the desktop, but depending on your needs it can be well worth the extra. With regard to the comments about heat, a properly designed laptop (NOT a thin/light laptop) will be able to dissipate the heat under continuous heavy load. I'm writing this response on a laptop that is processing a photogrammetry project (just under 1,000 photos) that has been running for almost 2 hours, using both the CPU and GPU and heat is not an issue (and it has about another 1.5 hours to complete the dense cloud construction portion of the processing). The laptop I am using is an MSI Titan GT76, and is build as a desktop replacement (it has an 8 core desktop CPU, and an RTX 2070 running at full speed). I do have it on a cooler pad, but typically only use it in the summer or for extended renders or photogrammetry projects (typically when I know it will be running under full load for over 4 hours).
I would recommend either an MSI, or a Clevo/Sager laptop (or rebranded version of either). The link below is to a system I would not hesitate buying from Xotic PC (where I got my current laptop). It looks to have adequate cooling. In fact it looks a lot like a rebranded MSI Titan (at a lower price point).
Are there compromises with a laptop? Yes!! But if you need one for portability, or for space, or if your lifestyle favors a laptop , then there are compromises with a desktop too. For me, the compromises with a desktop would essentially mean it would limit my ability to use the computer, and in some cases limit my ability to work with the computer at all (can't easily move it around the house, can't take it to business meetings, etc.). The greatest downside to a laptop for me is not being able to upgrade the GPU, and that's really the only thing I wish I could change. The machine I'm typing this response on has 8Tb ir internal disk storage, 128Gb RAM, and 10Tb external storage!!
Xotic PC link - https://xoticpc.com/collections/extreme-series-gaming-laptops/products/xotic-g170km-g-x170km-g
PS: All the images in my galleries (except for one) were done on a laptop.
The OP has stated that $3000 would already push the limit.
RAM... you need RAM. Video RAM, and PC RAM. Unless you want to blind... a big screen. (I'm a huge fan of Lap Crushing 17" screens.)
This render needed over 32GB of PC RAM, and was at 11.9GB of video card RAM.
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/4986713818529792#image=1187403
I recommend a desktop PC with 64GB of RAM, and a 3090 video card if you can get it. I have an, Asus 3080TI, and I'm hitting the memory ceiling far too often.
Your primary CPU isn't that important, so don't spend too much on that. Daz says that drives don't really affect DAZ's performance either, so any M.2 any speed should be fine.
After taking a closer look, I'm pretty sure that the Eluktronics MAX 17 Gaming Laptop is a Clevo rebranded laptop (Clevo is one of the major laptop manufactures that makes a large percentage of the name brand laptops on the market - in custom cases for the "client"). It looks to be the exact same model as the Xotic PC GP17. All the vents and port locations look the same, the same "magnesium" case (which IMHO is great), etc.
For my needs, I typically try to stay away from thin/light laptops, but this model (the Eluktronics or the Xotic) looks to be a good compromise between portability and having ample room for cooling. With a cooling pad I think it would do quite well (larger/thicker cases have more room for heat sinks which translates to better and more efficient cooling). I would definitely stay away from the HP you linked to, or any similar designs. I don't see a lot cooling vents, and the ultra thin style means there will be very little room for heat sinks to help dissipate heat efficiently resulting in poorer performance (quality laptops will reduce performance to lower the heat, ultra thin laptop will reduce performance a lot) and possible other heat related issues.
For a comparison to the Elucktronics laptop you linked to, here is a similar laptop (looks to be the same Clevo model) from Xotic PC (https://xoticpc.com/collections/sager-clevo-laptops/products/xotic-pc-gp17 ). Configured with the RTX 3080 8Gb, 32Gb RAM, and 2x1Tb SSD's the price is less than the Eluktronics Laptop. I've had 2 Clevo laptops in the past, and both were excellent quality and I used them for several years each (many of the images in my gallery were done with the second one).
IMHO, the first model I linked to (which is also a Xotic branded Clevo) would be a better choice for heavy use, but the form factor of the Eluktronic Xotic GP17 should be serviceable and dissipate heat quite well. With respect to a touch screen, I have a small thin ultra light laptop I use primarily for mobile presentations (i.e. presentations on a tour coach and at campgrounds with no electricity) and I seldom use the touch screen (it's an HP, and has a beautiful display). The touch screen is great for when I do presentations where I need to hold the laptop, but for everyday use, and most presentations, it's just not extremely useful to me (I thought it would be, if/when I replace it, a touch screen won't be considered as a plus or minus on the new machine). Just personal opinion here, but for me, 4K resolution on a 17 in. monitor is simply not needed. A 2.7k monitor might be useful, but 4k just seems like a bit of overkill on a laptop. When I purchased my current laptop, I had the option to get a 4k screen, but opted for a 1080p because it's the resolution that works best for me on a 17 in. screen. HP does have some extremely pleasing displays, but for everyday long term use in a variety of lighting conditions I find the mat displays to be a better option (fewer reflections meaning they are easier to see).
Sorry for the wall of text. Hopefully you'll find something useful. Good luck on your quest.
Oh, I forgot to mention, having a RTX 3080 (or even a 3070 or 3060) will be like night and day compared to your current machine. You're current GPU does nothing to speed up rendering. I would recommend that you get a card with at least 8Gb!!
I've been thinking about it and I really want to try a laptop under $3K. I read the comments here and I understand there are problems with heat. I will use a cooling tray and I don't plan to do anything too intense. I'm just doing one or two characters, usually without a background. I might not be able to play with animation. That's fine. If I put up a tower in my living room, it will be over $4K when the monitor is added and I am dealing with 4 other peope who will want to play games on it. If I have a laptop under $3K, I have the privacy I need and if it gets hot, I'll work within it's limitations. I can let a laptop run in my room for hours if it needs it, but I can't set up a tower and monitor in my room.
The computer I have now with the MX 110 fails when I'm viewing in Iray and I lose everything if I haven't saved and it takes forever to reload. It is in the main living room and the entire family uses it.
So, this laptop has good specs for $2,900:
XOTIC PC GP17 THIN GAMING LAPTOP https://xoticpc.com/collections/sager-clevo-laptops/products/xotic-pc-gp17
AMD RYZEN 9 5900HX 8 CORES - 16 THREADS (3.3-4.6GHZ) + NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3080 LAPTOP GPU 16GB GDDR6
64GB DDR4 3200MHZ (2X32GB) SODIMM MEMORY
1TB XOTIC PC CERTIFIED GEN 3
17.3" QHD (2560 X 1440), 165HZ, MATTE DISPLAY
I just need to know if this will WORK. Will it run Daz 3D, let me view one or two characters in Iray, and render it out in say an hour without failing or overheating if I have it on a cooling tray?
I wish I could set up a big tower and monitor in the living room right now, but I need about 7-10 years before I have the privacy to do that and the kids are out of the house.
I would say yes, it will work, and no doubt extremely well! The specs are really good, and the 3080 will be a massive improvement. You have plenty RAM to support the 16Gb 3080, so that's good. At some point you may want ot add another 1Tb SSD, but you can also use an external drive to store your renders/etc. if more space is needed (I have 10Tb of external storage on mine - not for DAZ, but Lidar and photogrammetry data).I think you will be very happy with the performance of that system with DS and Iray. With a good cooling pad, you should be fine because it looks like that system has ample intake/exhaust vents (most of the time my cooling pad is off, the improved air flow from just being on the cooling pad is a huge plus).
If I was looking for a new laptop for DS use and wanted great potability (my system isn't super portable due to it using 2 power bricks) I wouldn't hesitate getting the system you listed (I would probably add another SSD though, but since your staring out it may take a year or two to grow into it). If you do decide to seriously dabble in animation, you could always use a render farm (Jack Tomlin on of the moderators and PA's here has one for DS/Iray). Of course using a render farm does increase the cost of rendering. I know of a few people who do do freelance animation work with Blender, and do all of their work on a laptop and render the animations on a render farm. Of course they pass on the costs to their clients, but just something to keep in mind should your get really interested in animation (other advantages of using a render farm are you aren't heating up your living space, you don't have to worry about power or equipment failures, and your renders will complete much faster than if you do them on your own equipment).
Good luck and happy rendering!!!
I should also note that if you want maximum cooling with a laptop, the fan noise can be rather loud!!! But the heat management on them is typically really good anymore, and you should have the ability to select different cooling profiles that will keep the fan noise down by reducing the speed that the GPU/CPU operate at. On my system I only loose about 10% performance when in the "Comfort" setting. If I change it to "Sport" mode, the fans get more noticeable with only about a 2%-3% reduction in performance, and GPU/CPU temps drop about 10 degrees (this is best for longer processing/rendering sessions), Anything above these settings the fans get quite loud, so I seldom use them, but they will allow maximum performance at low temps (typically not worth the little extra performance IMHO).
I really think you would be quite happy with the XOTIC PC GP17 laptop.
Thank you so much for your reply. I have discussed it with 11-year-old son and he hates the laptop idea and is lobbying for a desktop. If I get a laptop, I'll probably get the one we discussed, but I must negotiate with the pre-teen first. It's good to know that laptops do work for the kind of projects I'd like to do, even if they aren't ideal.